Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[BigRig4]

Feels like the Turris for Duchesne idea until you realize it blew the team up and completely ruined whatever chemistry that team had

That team was coming off game 7 for the semi-finals though. This team has missed the playoffs for 7 straight years. Whatever chemistry they have isn’t accomplishing much.

 

[The Waffler]

I thought albatross was a good thing? Like a bird? Or a really good hole in golf??

 

[GCK]

Amazing trade for Carolina but my question is: What the f*** is Chicago doing?

Why trade one of the only vets to surround Bedard AND pay half of Rantanen's salary....all for a third rounder?

Insanity.

Edit: And no, this won't change a thing in terms of them finishing last. They were going to be 32nd with Hall.

Hall has been awful. They are getting a 3rd for free as Hall more than offsets retention on Mikko

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Carolina are also in a different position than the Senators which is another large factor in that deal. The Canes are all-in for the Cup this year, whereas we are still struggling to try to make it in to the playoffs.

But, you do make a good point. Maybe the Canes think they can resign Rantanen.


I assume it's Norris that you are talking about when you say “albatross contract”?

Is that based on the concern for another injury, or something else?

It's absolutely based on injury concerns. He's also overpaid but that's a problem I could deal with if he wasn't one hit away from ending his career.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

They basically traded Hall with the equivalent of double retention for a top 70 draft pick while only burning one retention spot. It was good work by Chicago.

They retained on Rantanen instead, but the amount retained would be roughly the same as sending Hall double retained.

 

[GCK]

It's absolutely based on injury concerns. He's also overpaid but that's a problem I could deal with if he wasn't one hit away from ending his career.

I’m not worried about injuries with Norris, I am worried about Pinto not being good enough to replace him and Greig not being good enough to replace Pinto. If we move Norris in season it’s basically punting on this season IMO. Offseason is different

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Hall has been awful. They are getting a 3rd for free as Hall more than offsets retention on Mikko

Their main concern should be to surround Bedard with vets, not acquiring 3rd rounders as they head towards another top-3 pick. You could barely call that an NHL roster before the Hall trade.

 

[GCK]

Their main concern should be to surround Bedard with vets, not acquiring 3rd rounders as they head towards another top-3 pick. You could barely call that an NHL roster before the Hall trade.

The vast majority of their forwards are veterans.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I’m not worried about injuries with Norris, I am worried about Pinto not being good enough to replace him and Greig not being good enough to replace Pinto. If we move Norris in season it’s basically punting on this season IMO. Offseason is different

I agree it would be best to trade Norris in the offseason, but if a GM is dumb enough to take on that contract at any moment and send a warm body or two back you take that to the bank. He's already out for a week(or more) again and any other minor injury could take hm out for the rest of this season. He just doesn't bring enough to the table to offset that risk.

The vast majority of their forwards are veterans.

Lol there's no one left to play with dude get real.

 

[Tuna99]

That team was coming off game 7 for the semi-finals though. This team has missed the playoffs for 7 straight years. Whatever chemistry they have isn’t accomplishing much.

But that’s not an argument for Miller, as Jacques Martin said last year “yes, it can get worse”

Ottawa will Make the playoffs with or without Miller, and it’s not like Millers teams have done much either TBH

 

[L'Aveuglette]

But that’s not an argument for Miller, as Jacques Martin said last year “yes, it can get worse”

Ottawa will Make the playoffs with or without Miller, and it’s not like Millers teams have done much either TBH

We're not making the playoffs without bringing in another top-6 forward.

 

[Big Muddy]

It's absolutely based on injury concerns. He's also overpaid but that's a problem I could deal with if he wasn't one hit away from ending his career.

OK. I wasn’t sure, so thought I’d ask. If he stays healthy for the forseeable future, is there a point in which your apprehension of re-injury disappears or is significantly reduced?

 

[Tuna99]

We're not making the playoffs without bringing in another top-6 forward.

Ottawa fans have so little faith in this team it’s sad, I’m sure give already counted them out 15 times this year so time to prove you wrong again

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Ottawa fans have so little faith in this team it’s sad

I don't really think the Senators have given fans much faith the last 7 years so it's understandable

 

[L'Aveuglette]

OK. I wasn’t sure, so thought I’d ask. If he stays healthy for the forseeable future, is there a point in which your apprehension of re-injury disappears or is significantly reduced?

Well, he's injured right now so uh, no.

That aside, he'd have to be healthy until next season while actually contributing offense at a top-6 level, but I'd still trade him at any point if someone comes knocking.

 

[Tuna99]

I don't really think the Senators have given fans much faith the last 7 years so it's understandable

But if you watch the previous 574 regular season games from the previous 7 seasons and then the games they’ve played this season you’d have confidence the Sens can make the playoffs because they’ve improved massively

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I don't think Norris in particular is the problem.

Overpaid? Obviously yes, that's undeniable based on production and comparables, but not a "problem" imo. 1.5-2.5 mil overpaid is all.

They're just still lacking a top line piece pretty obviously. Nobody to play with Stu basically, and our best offensive player is floundering with shoehorned in non 1st liners like Spezza used to be. Don't know how they solve that when the solutions aren't in house, they aren't a big FA destination, and they're starved for assets.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

But if you watch the previous 574 regular season games from the previous 7 seasons and then the games they’ve played this season you’d have confidence the Sens can make the playoffs because they’ve improved massively

Improving massively from where they were 7 years prior is not the endorsement you think it is given they've been rebuilding for what seems like an entire window of a rebuilding + contending cycle.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Rantannen and Necas get moved and people on this board want to call Norris a "core" player. God, I hope Staios and Andlauer aren't of that mind. This team is primed to compete and win if only the guys running the show have the intestinal fortitude to do what needs to be done!

Bro they got moved for eachother lol. They swapped a core player for a core player. You don’t think Rantenan is part of Carolina’s core? And Necas is not part of colorados core ?

I don't think Norris in particular is the problem.

Overpaid? Obviously yes, that's undeniable based on production and comparables, but not a "problem" imo. 1.5-2.5 mil overpaid is all.

They're just still lacking a top line piece pretty obviously. Nobody to play with Stu basically, and our best offensive player is floundering with shoehorned in non 1st liners like Spezza used to be. Don't know how they solve that when the solutions aren't in house, they aren't a big FA destination, and they're starved for assets.

It can be done. Just get stu like solid two way guys that can still pot goals.

And hope everyone continues to get better defensively.

 

[Tuna99]

Improving massively from where they were 7 years prior is not the endorsement you think it is given they've been rebuilding for what seems like an entire window of a rebuilding + contending cycle.

I’m optimistic about the team, I watch all the games, I know all the trades and transactions and I think they are a playoff team this season and I won’t worry about 7 years ago tonight I’ll just worry about this game because the Leafs have been great for 7 years and they entire fanbase still wear diapers and cry to their Dadddy’s come April, even some of their players are doing that

 

[BankStreetParade]

I think Brady, Stutzle, Sanderson, and Ullmark are the unmovables. They make up a great core that you can build around. Anyone else should be looked at. I like the resurgence in Chabot's game but I think this team would be better off with an 8M scoring winger than defenseman at this point.

Not to open a whole thing with this discussion but I'm starting to wonder if Brady is a must-have piece for this team.

Sanderson, #1D, makes sense.
Stutzle, #1C, makes sense.
Ullmark, #1G, makes sense.

Wingers that don't put up monstrous point totals or aren't elite 2-way players who still contribute a ppg, I'm not so sure. For me, he's in the luxury category. Absolutely love to have him but you can learn to live without him.

 

[GCK]

I agree it would be best to trade Norris in the offseason, but if a GM is dumb enough to take on that contract at any moment and send a warm body or two back you take that to the bank. He's already out for a week(or more) again and any other minor injury could take hm out for the rest of this season. He just doesn't bring enough to the table to offset that risk.



Lol there's no one left to play with dude get real.

Norris smashed his face on the ice, it’s not a recurring thing.

Taylor Hall had 9 goals and 15 assists in 46 games. He was useless.

 

[darude]

But if you watch the previous 574 regular season games from the previous 7 seasons and then the games they’ve played this season you’d have confidence the Sens can make the playoffs because they’ve improved massively

They've improved massively defensively.
Last year: 281 / 82 = 3.43 GF/GP
This year: 133 / 48 = 2.77 GF/GP

They've regressed a comparatively smaller amount offensively.
Last year: 250 / 82 = 3.05 GF/GP
This year: 131 / 48 = 2.73 GF/GP

And this is with scoring being up across the league.

If you wanna make hay from these defensive improvements you gotta score at closer to last year's rate. Whether it's coaching or personnel or what, I dunno what the exact fix is.

 

[Big Muddy]

Well, he's injured right now so uh, no.

That aside, he'd have to be healthy until next season while actually contributing offense at a top-6 level, but I'd still trade him at any point if someone comes knocking.

Yes, but as I far as I know, the current injury is not a shoulder injury unless there’s some recent report that I’ve missed.

So, if he was healthy (no re-injury of the shoulder) all this season, then over the summer or at beginning of the next season, the concern would disappear or be significantly reduced then I presume ….?

 

[Big Muddy]

This article says an “optimized” salary for a 2nd line center would be $6.5 m. If it's “optimized”, then $6.5 m is best case scenario (the lowest).

So, he’s overpaid by about $1.45 m (maximum) according to this source.

Trying to Improve the team is always good, but I’d also wonder about the cost in terms of assets that would be required to get an actual improvement. The Senators do not appear to in the same position as the Hurricanes who are basically all in trying for the Cup this year.

An Analysis of NHL Salary Optimization – Northwestern Sports Analytics Group

sites.northwestern.edu

I don't think Norris in particular is the problem.

Overpaid? Obviously yes, that's undeniable based on production and comparables, but not a "problem" imo. 1.5-2.5 mil overpaid is all.

They're just still lacking a top line piece pretty obviously. Nobody to play with Stu basically, and our best offensive player is floundering with shoehorned in non 1st liners like Spezza used to be. Don't know how they solve that when the solutions aren't in house, they aren't a big FA destination, and they're starved for assets.

The article above said the “optimal salary” for a 2C would be $6.5 m, so I think the $2.5 is too high. Next year it's probably going to be more like $1 m too high especially if the cap gets a bigger boost that some have speculated.

What I find interesting is that Norris contract has been deemed an albatross, but trades proposals for players like Rantanen, Marner, Miller, Petersen had Norris as the main piece in the trade. I’m all for improving the roster, just not sure what it's going to take to do that. The cost in terms of assets for a better player is going to be high, and if the Norris contract is an albatross, then it's going to take much more than JN to swing the deal.