Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Beech]

I've paid a lot of attention to that team, including watching end of year pressers and what not. I don't think people are paying attention if they think that rebuild is gonna be like the one in Ottawa. They have a timeline of contracts expiring over a series of years, and they aren't gonna move them all at once. Ownership there wants to be competitive to a certain extent. It's just not gonna be a scorched earth trade everybody in one small window type thing imo, it's going to happen over the next couple years as different guys approach expiry or high prices are paid to pry them out earlier.

There's certainly nothing to suggest there's any urgency to move either of those guys, and there will be lots of competition if they do.

I posted an extended Chychrun + as a based for either on the main boards and was laughed out of the building. It's just not in the ballpark of what they need and clearly his value is not high. He's basically a throw in for other either of those guys imo.

Chyc is perceived as a throw in..

A guy we paid a #11 for, is set to make 7 M this year, may be angling for an 7/8 @ 6, 7 or 8 M.

How is this happening?

 

[Big Muddy]

I've paid a lot of attention to that team, including watching end of year pressers and what not. I don't think people are paying attention if they think that rebuild is gonna be like the one in Ottawa. They have a timeline of contracts expiring over a series of years, and they aren't gonna move them all at once. Ownership there wants to be competitive to a certain extent. It's just not gonna be a scorched earth trade everybody in one small window type thing imo, it's going to happen over the next couple years as different guys approach expiry or high prices are paid to pry them out earlier.

There's certainly nothing to suggest there's any urgency to move either of those guys, and there will be lots of competition if they do.

I posted an extended Chychrun + as a based for either on the main boards and was laughed out of the building. It's just not in the ballpark of what they need and clearly his value is not high. He's basically a throw in for other either of those guys imo.

I avoid the main board and trade thread. Way too many idiots that lurk there. LOL.

 

[Hale The Villain]

No team is going to scoff at adding a top-2/3 D for 4.5M for one season, even if they can't work out an extension.

I think most teams around the league have realized Chychrun probably isn't a top pairing D, rather he's more of a decent 2nd pairing guy.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Chyc is perceived as a throw in..

A guy we paid a #11 for, is set to make 7 M this year, may be angling for an 7/8 @ 6, 7 or 8 M.

How is this happening?

I think he carries some value still, but in this context, I would see him as basically an additional piece, nothing moving the needle much really.

I avoid the main board and trade thread. Way too many idiots that lurk there. LOL.

Lol, as do I 99.9% of the time, but I broke the rule that time. I was mostly curious what Flames fans would have to say and it was fairly predictably a hell no not interested lol.

 

[Beech]

I think he carries some value still, but in this context, I would see him as basically an additional piece, nothing moving the needle much really.

-----

My apologies, I said a #11 pick, It was a #12. And per Capfriendly, Arizona gets the Sens 2024 2nd round pick (I think, damn confusing that site).

he is 26

Ouch.. Thank you Pierre.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

For Chychrun, we technically gave up 12th OA, 44th OA, 49th OA, and a 2026 2nd+2026 4th.

You have to factor in the picks given up to dump Zaitsev. We were still a budget team and we dumped that contract directly to afford Chychrun.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

For Chychrun, we technically gave up 12th OA, 44th OA, 49th OA, and a 2026 2nd+2026 4th.

You have to factor in the picks given up to dump Zaitsev. We were still a budget team and we dumped that contract directly to afford Chychrun.

Lost money. Horrible . Same for DeBrincat Just signature Dorion Big Name hunting moves coupled with poor evaluation of his own roster

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Lost money. Horrible . Same for DeBrincat Just signature Dorion Big Name hunting moves coupled with poor evaluation of his own roster

I am not defending Dorion, but part of the motivation for those kind of pickups was supposedly the team being for sale. Polishing a turd, so to speak. They needed to create excitement among the season ticket base and the city.

Reddit started the Summer Of Pierre thing after all those moves, so I'd guess he did succeed.

Ultimately, those moves were the death rattle of the Melnyk regime. We got screwed long term because the team was in such a sorry state due to Menlyk's ownership, that they needed to make panic moves for superstars.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I am not defending Dorion, but part of the motivation for those kind of pickups was supposedly the team being for sale. Polishing a turd, so to speak. They needed to create excitement among the season ticket base and the city.

Reddit started the Summer Of Pierre thing after all those moves, so I'd guess he did succeed.

Ultimately, those moves were the death rattle of the Melnyk regime. We got screwed long term because the team was in such a sorry state due to Menlyk's ownership, that they needed to make panic moves for superstars.

The roster has next to no impact on the selling price of a sports franchise, they are "just" employees.

Dorion was just an insecure moron who desperately wanted people to like him and for his "masterplan" to come together. That is why he made those awful trades for DBC and Chychrun.

 

[Blotto71]

The Jets would benefit from having Chychrun. What would their best offer include?

Also, is Chatfield a reasonable RD to target? Shouldn't command big dollars or term...

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

The roster has next to no impact on the selling price of a sports franchise, they are "just" employees.

Dorion was just an insecure moron who desperately wanted people to like him and for his "masterplan" to come together. That is why he made those awful trades for DBC and Chychrun.

It's not directly about the roster, it's about engaging the fan base, improving season ticket numbers, and trying to get into the playoffs.

They needed to build excitement around the team and increase the chances of playoff hockey.

Look at the kind of hype that was built that off season. In a way, he did his job. Except for the building a bad team part of it.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

The Jets would benefit from having Chychrun. What would their best offer include?

Also, is Chatfield a reasonable RD to target? Shouldn't command big dollars or term...

Some weird combo of player/pick/prospect that is both enticing and disappointing. They don't have a 1st, so it either has to be next year's 1st or a player who is worth a 1st by proxy.

Elias Salomonsson (1st round value), Logan Stanley (roster player throw in), and a 2026 3rd (pick).

If I recall, we want an actual hockey trade. Ehlers is the only guy they have available of comparable stature, but I don't think a top 6 winger is our priority right now. Unless it's a big heavy player.

 

[bert]

Bert, it's a starting point in a conversation, not a definitive offer! Come on, man.

Anderson is likely to be very much on the tail end of his effectiveness before Calgary is competitive again and Weegar is already locked up with term - very plausible him being moved (for Chychrun alone? Not likely, but as i expressed - starting point).

There have been several articles suggesting that Andersson is a moveable pieces - but I cannot speak to the veracity of those publishing them.

Nothing that I would call "vetted" suggesting he should or will be moved, but I have seen Calgary fans expressing an openness to moving him (and many others expressing no desire to see it happen). So for me, more of the latter I think - I'm suggesting that Andersson is the type I'd like to see Staios target as opposed to Tanev.

They aren't in the same statusphere from a value perspective. Let's assume they are equal in terms of what they bring to the table in winning hockey games. Which they aren't remotely close. But then you take into account salary and position. I'd love for it to be true but it's just not happening. They are only one year different in age.

 

[Beech]

The roster has next to no impact on the selling price of a sports franchise, they are "just" employees.

Dorion was just an insecure moron who desperately wanted people to like him and for his "masterplan" to come together. That is why he made those awful trades for DBC and Chychrun.

Correct, but in the wrong order.

his plan was failing. The so called brilliant scout and talent evaluator, was laying one egg after another. See his 2016-2019 drafts when he was GM. Now see the 2010-2015 drafts that he contributed too, nearly as poor. The 10 and 11, excellent. From 12-19 very poor.

So he finds himself in 2022, missing the 3-4 players that should have been here and producing.

Now he does what this team has done in the past, and sadly, will repeat this year and moving forward. They start trading and FA. which takes things from bad to worse.

Now you overpay and you acquire guys who do not want to be here.

That is the Ottawa Senators 2002-today.

Dorion was the next in line of poor GMs. Murray before him. Mucklar before him.

A franchise that must look at the draft as the sacred cow, as the holly grail as the air to breath, water to drink and soil to plant in. Has spent 22 years missing. And now they have to correct, all the while, Ottawa ranks near bottom on desired locations.

 

[bicboi64]

Calgary should trade Andersson, but they don't do anything right so they probably won't.

Their owner's meddling is Melnyk-esque. Doesn't want the team to rebuild and now they are in no-man's land.

Also is refusing to let them take on dead cap for assets. They could have got a 1st for Tanev if they took on Johansen from Colorado, and apparently could have gotten a haul from NJ for Markstrom at the deadline, but they refused to retain money.

Andersson is a stretch but I wonder if we go after Markstrom this summer. He's 34 and is not a long-term solution in net, but he'd be an obvious improvement on Korpisalo/Forsberg. Has a NMC but may only want to play out East, which limits his destinations. Played for Green in Vancouver and did well under him. Might cost too much in assets and cap though.

Murray Edwards is probably one of the most meddlesome owners in the league. If CGY is looking to 'compete' and gather as many pieces as they can to be a bubble team, I think we can make a Chychrun trade work with them.

Chychrun and one of our 4ths for Markstrom. If we can get one of Kuzmenko or Mangiapane, we can always move them later on as well, but both teams seem like good trade partners.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Assuming Saros and Nashville don't see eye to eye on a contract, what about some sort of 3-way deal with Marner to Nashville, Saros to Ottawa, and Chychrun to Toronto?

No extensions, just shuffling of UFAs to fit positions of greater need.

Obviously, that would be the base of the deal, you can get cute and add in other players or draft picks as needed.

Forsberg either goes to Nashville in the trade, or he goes somewhere else for a late pick. (Someone will need a goalie and take him since he doesn't have term.)

Of course, the above proposal assumes Toronto doesn't want Saros, in which case they could cut out the middle-man and just do Saros for Marner.

Nashville has Askarov, so it isn't crazy to think that they won't want to pay Saros 6.5M+ x 8 years with buyout protected signing bonuses and trade protection, which is what a goalie of his resume is likely to ask for.

People will question acquiring Saros without an extension, but the way I see it is that if the market for Chychrun is soft in terms of picks+prospects, there is no real downside. Winning this upcoming season is very important. If renting Saros for a year at the expense of getting a late 1st for Chychrun gets us into the playoffs, it is well worth it. If we're not in the playoffs at the deadline, we have bigger problems, and we probably recoup that late 1st by trading Saros to a contender as a rental.

We can also leverage the fear of playing behind our defense to possibly get him to sign a softer extension in January. As in, look you think you're worth 6.5M now, just wait until you play behind us, you will still be worth 6.5M but it will be 6.5M total with an 8125k AAV.

 

[Liver King]

We're not trading for a goalie who's due for a big raise after next season. I don't see it

 

[Micklebot]

Assuming Saros and Nashville don't see eye to eye on a contract, what about some sort of 3-way deal with Marner to Nashville, Saros to Ottawa, and Chychrun to Toronto?

No extensions, just shuffling of UFAs to fit positions of greater need.

Obviously, that would be the base of the deal, you can get cute and add in other players or draft picks as needed.

Forsberg either goes to Nashville in the trade, or he goes somewhere else for a late pick. (Someone will need a goalie and take him since he doesn't have term.)

Of course, the above proposal assumes Toronto doesn't want Saros, in which case they could cut out the middle-man and just do Saros for Marner.

Nashville has Askarov, so it isn't crazy to think that they won't want to pay Saros 6.5M+ x 8 years with buyout protected signing bonuses and trade protection, which is what a goalie of his resume is likely to ask for.

People will question acquiring Saros without an extension, but the way I see it is that if the market for Chychrun is soft in terms of picks+prospects, there is no real downside. Winning this upcoming season is very important. If renting Saros for a year at the expense of getting a late 1st for Chychrun gets us into the playoffs, it is well worth it. If we're not in the playoffs at the deadline, we have bigger problems, and we probably recoup that late 1st by trading Saros to a contender as a rental.

We can also leverage the fear of playing behind our defense to possibly get him to sign a softer extension in January. As in, look you think you're worth 6.5M now, just wait until you play behind us, you will still be worth 6.5M but it will be 6.5M total with an 8125k AAV.

Nashville might need Chychrun themselves now that they've move McDonaugh, and I'd rather not help Toronto if possible... I think they only have Josi as a LHD

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

We're not trading for a goalie who's due for a big raise after next season. I don't see it

The trick is that we let him play out the season with our team in front of him, then he will no longer be due for a big raise.

 

[BondraTime]

Nashville might need Chychrun themselves now that they've move McDonaugh, and I'd rather not help Toronto if possible... I think they only have Josi as a LHD

Will probably be confident with Lauzon out on the 2nd pair for 19/20 minutes a game.

They may lose Carrier as well, tough to replace your #2 and #3 guy in an offseason.

 

[Micklebot]

We're not trading for a goalie who's due for a big raise after next season. I don't see it

How big of a raise can he be in line for...

Sorokin and Helleyabuk both got 8+ so that's probably the ballpark it will take.

I think we can make that work but it will take some sacrifices. What's more important, a goalie, or high end RHD? How much will it cost to extend Giroux, Pinto and Greig

 

[Liver King]

How big of a raise can he be in line for...

Sorokin and Helleyabuk both got 8+ so that's probably the ballpark it will take.

I think we can make that work but it will take some sacrifices. What's more important, a goalie, or high end RHD? How much will it cost to extend Giroux, Pinto and Greig

Without losing Korpisalo it's unrealistic, 6+m for another goalie won't work with our cap. We just gotta try to get lucky on a cheap ufa signing and hope Sogaard and Levi keep developing

At this stage of our team, a high-end RHD is far more important imo.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Thinking of a 3-way deal in which we send Chychrun to Carolina and flip Orlov with retention to a 3rd team for assets that better fit our needs

 

[bicboi64]

Without losing Korpisalo it's unrealistic, 6+m for another goalie won't work with our cap. We just gotta try to get lucky on a cheap ufa signing and hope Sogaard and Levi keep developing

At this stage of our team, a high-end RHD is far more important imo.

If Staios can move Korpisalo at all within a year, he'll approach GM of the year status. Even if Korpisalo "bounces back", not sure how many teams will take a chance on him, but if he can up his value, maybe someone can bite and acquiring goalies like Saros become an option.

 

[Micklebot]

Without losing Korpisalo it's unrealistic, 6+m for another goalie won't work with our cap. We just gotta try to get lucky on a cheap ufa signing and hope Sogaard and Levi keep developing

At this stage of our team, a high-end RHD is far more important imo.

Sure it will, in two years the Cap will be 92 mil (projected), it just means instead of a 6 mil RHD, we target a 4.5 mil guy.

Here's an example

Tkachuk - Stützle - Giroux (extended at 5m for 2025)
Greig (ext @ 4 mil in 25)- Pinto 5x5 - Batherson
Ostapchuk-Norris-Joseph
Kelly (@.925 in 25) - Kastelic (@900 in 25) - MacEwen or callup

Sanderson-Zub
Chabot-Tanev or other @4.5
Kleven-JBD (extended at 1 mil in 25)

Saros (ext @ 8 in 25)
Korpisalo

Ext :Hamonic (equivalent of callup in 25), Katchouk or equivalent at 900k

That's 87.4 mil in 2024-25 and 90.8 in 2025-26. We can buyout Korpisalo to make a bit more room, we can probably get Greig cheaper than my conservative estimate as well.

Buying out Korpisalo and replacing him with a ~1 mil backup would open up ~2.7 mil next year and ~2.1 the year after,

It all comes down to what you value. If you think having a 6 mil RHD instead of a 4.5 mil guy will win you more games than Saros instead of a cheep UFA goalie and what's in the system, then you go with that.

Any way you look at it, we're going to have to sacrifice something. If you're more comfortable running with unproven goalies, then so be it, but there is definitely room to get a 6 mil goalie if that's what the team thinks is the most important hole to fill.