GDT: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 2

[Mingus Dew]

I’m uncomfortable with that not knowing what happened.

I probably should have been clearer, but by "in the room" I mean participation. I doubt we ever get that level of confirmation absent a criminal proceeding so it's hypothetical.

If a young woman says she was assaulted and it's independently confirmed who took part in the act then I don't think we need a criminal conviction to know what happened.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

We got destroyed because the roster was lacking, no rearranging would fix that so just let your franchise centre be in the best possible position to have success.


Blaming coaching is just giving players an excuse. What we saw from Debrincat, Batherson, Joseph and Chabot isn’t on the coaches. The coaching didn’t affect Stu, Giroux and Sanderson.

No. Blaming only the players is an excuse for the coaches. Many players that were successful in their role in the past (Chabot, Joseph, Motte, Talbot with other coaches) struggled under DJ. The responsibility of the coach is to get the most out of his players. Player performance is a shared metric between coaches and players. It's why some coaches consistently get better results than others.

While obviously the coach can't play for the players I feel that our coach failed to hold players accountable and, in some cases, did not put them in position to succeed. Our second line was a train wreck at even strength and he did nothing about it.

Here's a little quote from DJ from an interview he had with Mendes last month

“When I took this job, my job was to develop these kids. And with that comes losses. If Timmy makes a mistake, you have to keep playing him. And that’s part of it,” Smith explained. “Now as a coach, I will coach them differently. There is a different mindset when you’re developing and rebuilding. And there is a different mindset when you believe you can win every night. That’s the exciting part for me and our staff. These players. I think they feel they have a chance to win every night now.”

DJ is clearly going into this season with the mindset of winning every night.

The NHL is a grind. Some nights some guys don't have the legs. What has DJ done? Not much because of limited options. Last season Batherson struggled to get around most of the season and he said so himself. What did DJ do? Not much. Limited options.

I think expectations are quite different this year. We need health and presuming we have it, a night when a guy like Batherson doesn't have it, he gets 15 but gets 19 on a night when the motor is running hot. Or look at Chabot. Wtf do you do when he has his head up his arse? You keep putting him out there hoping he extracts it himself. This year? I fully expect his minutes to plummet and a guy like Brannstrom to see an extra 5.

We've not had those kind of options before. I think this year we do and I expect them to be utilized

I hope this plays out but until it does it's just lip service, IMO.

 

[GCK]

I probably should have been clearer, but by "in the room" I mean participation. I doubt we ever get that level of confirmation absent a criminal proceeding so it's hypothetical.

If a young woman says she was assaulted and it's independently confirmed who took part in the act then I don't think we need a criminal conviction to know what happened.

I’m leaving this discussion as we have different ideas about what may have happened.

 

[SenatorsLegionary]

View attachment 727930
We should trade Joseph and pick for Garland.

I really like the idea of going after Garland as a more cost-effective way (in terms of assets that it will take to to acquire him) of upgrading the forwards. If we can get him in a swap for Joseph plus a small add, I'd be all over it. The terms match on the respective contracts, it saves the Canucks some cap and it's only adding $2.0M net to our cap situation which we can handle. It's a solid framework for a trade IMO.

My personal pipe-dream for our roster is this:

That roster is only possible with a Murray buyout which is looking likely atm. The "finishing touch" move would be to add a Sundqvist signing for depth on the 4th line that can move up a line in case of injuries, the timing of that move will have to wait until after Murray is bought out to ensure we have the cap space for it. I also might be a bit over optimistic getting Tatar at $2.5M but I guess that's why it's a pipe dream haha.

Trade was Joseph + Thomson + maybe a later round pick for Garland. Deals for Tatar, Pinto, and Sundqvist are all 1 year in that scenario, then the idea is to re-evaluate them plus Kubalik next year to see who comes back and at what number with an expected cap increase and all of the dead cap off the books. Important contracts to get done the following offseason would be Pinto and Sanderson with almost $20M in cap space.

Garland and Tatar are both strong even-strength players which is an area we struggled in last season, and Garland plays a style of game that fits our team despite his size. This roster also gives Greig one more year to develop and bring along slowly and then I have him in the NHL line up full-time as of 2024-2025 replacing one of the spots held by Tatar/Kubalik/Sundqvist.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I really like the idea of going after Garland as a more cost-effective way (in terms of assets that it will take to to acquire him) of upgrading the forwards. If we can get him in a swap for Joseph plus a small add, I'd be all over it. The terms match on the respective contracts, it saves the Canucks some cap and it's only adding $2.0M net to our cap situation which we can handle. It's a solid framework for a trade IMO.

My personal pipe-dream for our roster is this:
View attachment 727972

That roster is only possible with a Murray buyout which is looking likely atm. The "finishing touch" move would be to add a Sundqvist signing for depth on the 4th line that can move up a line in case of injuries, the timing of that move will have to wait until after Murray is bought out to ensure we have the cap space for it. I also might be a bit over optimistic getting Tatar at $2.5M but I guess that's why it's a pipe dream haha.

Trade was Joseph + Thomson + maybe a later round pick for Garland. Deals for Tatar, Pinto, and Sundqvist are all 1 year in that scenario, then the idea is to re-evaluate them plus Kubalik next year to see who comes back and at what number with an expected cap increase and all of the dead cap off the books. Important contracts to get done the following offseason would be Pinto and Sanderson with almost $20M in cap space.

Garland and Tatar are both strong even-strength players which is an area we struggled in last season, and Garland plays a style of game that fits our team despite his size. This roster also gives Greig one more year to develop and bring along slowly and then I have him in the NHL line up full-time as of 2024-2025 replacing one of the spots held by Tatar/Kubalik/Sundqvist.

Not sure Garland really fits this team's MO. If we are looking to add a small forward I think Konency is the guy but we probably don't want to pay the price for him (will be substantial).

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Not sure Garland really fits this team's MO. If we are looking to add a small forward I think Konency is the guy but we probably don't want to pay the price for him (will be substantial).

Konecny would be great but...

- 1yr to FA
- Hard to fit capwise
- High acquisition cost

Garland is still tough to fit capwise but the acquisition cost would be low and he has team control. By the end of his deal, it will probably provide quite a bit of positive value.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Some players were invited up and left once they knew what was happening. As teenagers... But you think they should be banned from the league? Jesus.

Clarified I meant participation. My bad. Anyways unnecessary tangent.

Konecny would be great but...

- 1yr to FA
- Hard to fit capwise
- High acquisition cost

Garland is still tough to fit capwise but the acquisition cost would be low and he has team control. By the end of his deal, it will probably provide quite a bit of positive value.

I thought he had 2 years left. My mistake.

 

[bert]

No. Blaming only the players is an excuse for the coaches. Many players that were successful in their role in the past (Chabot, Joseph, Motte, Talbot with other coaches) struggled under DJ. The responsibility of the coach is to get the most out of his players. Player performance is a shared metric between coaches and players. It's why some coaches consistently get better results than others.

While obviously the coach can't play for the players I feel that our coach failed to hold players accountable and, in some cases, did not put them in position to succeed. Our second line was a train wreck at even strength and he did nothing about it.



I hope this plays out but until it does it's just lip service, IMO.

If you are going to blame a goalies performance on the coach we know you have an agenda. They have one job.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

If you are going to blame a goalies performance on the coach we know you have an agenda. They have one job.

Systems matter to goalies too. Giving up prime chances is not good for a goalie.

That is not an agenda, that is fact. There have been coaches over the years who always seem to get good goaltending. It's not by chance.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Clarified I meant participation. My bad. Anyways unnecessary tangent.



I thought he had 2 years left. My mistake.

I'm wrong, you're right. My concern is still that we cant extend him for a year... could put us in a similar situation as we just went through with Cat.

 

[NyQuil]

Newhook with a 12 million 4 year contract, another similar guy to Pinto taking the 4 year deal, so number is deceiving comparing to Pinto's.

27g, 39a, 66p in 159 games, best season 14g 16a 30p. Cup champ.

They paid a lot of assets to get him so it's not surprising that they are willing to spend a lot on him.

Not sure how this one is going to work out for Montreal.

 

[Psycroptic86]

Why is free agency so quiet right now? (I know that teams are tight on cap space.) Any traction on rumors for Sens signing anybody now that DBC is gone?

 

[NyQuil]

Why is free agency so quiet right now? (I know that teams are tight on cap space.) Any traction on rumors for Sens signing anybody now that DBC is gone?

There was that initial Tarasenko excitement but it's died down pretty quick.

Mostly just speculation now.

Judging by Garrioch's comments following the trade (mouthpiece of the team), Ottawa is prepared to go into the season with Kubalik on the 2nd line if need be but they'll kick the tires on some guys if they can make the cap math work.

We're probably waiting for a Murray buyout now at this point before any further moves happen.

 

[bert]

Systems matter to goalies too. Giving up prime chances is not good for a goalie.

That is not an agenda, that is fact. There have been coaches over the years who always seem to get good goaltending. It's not by chance.

Systems... Like can you actually identify the ones they are playing? honestly. If you can explain what a hinge is in the next 2 minutes without looking it up maybe ill believe you know what systems they were playing.

Talbot was way off his angle all the time. He was terrible. Theres a reason he just signed for 1 million. This is a massive reach. If you actually think goaltending is on the head coach you're lost man. If there is anyone to blame other than the individual maybe focus on the actual goalie coach....

This is about as insane as people blaming Debrincat missing open nets on DJ.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Talbot was way off his angle all the time. He was terrible. Theres a reason he just signed for 1 million. This is a massive reach. If you actually think goaltending is on the head coach you're lost man. If there is anyone to blame other than the individual maybe focus on the actual goalie coach....

This is about as insane as people blaming Debrincat missing open nets on DJ.

He was one of a group of players that underperformed. I don't think he played well. I think it was a bad trade. The guy probably just fell off a cliff. My point was that there were players with track records of success who stunk under our coach. Is he definitely to blame? Not necessarily. Just like he doesn't get 100% credit for Giroux, Stü or Sanderson being awesome. Which was my original point in replying to the OP.

 

[Sensinitis]

Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux
Tatar-Norris-Batherson
Kubalik-Pinto-Donskoi
Greig-Kastelic-Joseph/MacEwen/Sokolov

Donskoi can probably had for 1M, Tatar I'm guessing 3-3.5M on a 1 year, sign Pinto at around 2M.

I'd rather have Tarasenko but if we miss out adding those two would be a good consolation imo.

If Murray gets bought out I think it's doable even if we keep Joseph for this season.

 

[HSF]

Garland is a puck hound so he fits in that sense for a heavy checking team

I don't think I can last a sesaon with posters bitching and complaining about his size though

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Garland is a puck hound so he fits in that sense for a heavy checking team

I don't think I can last a sesaon with posters bitching and complaining about his size though

Hes 5'10 compared to Debrincat 5'7. If they can survive watching Debrincat for a year then they should be fine.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Dorion basically said he will be trying to sign tarasenko. I don’t expect that to happen.

 

[BrawlFan]

Y’all won’t like to hear it. But I’m gonna say it. Dumba

 

[Cosmix]

Send Joseph & Brannstrom & free up about $5 mil in any package for those guys, we don't need either & have plenty of depth on both sides on D, we won't miss Brannstrom. Laughton is the cheapest & probably the easiest salary to fit our salary structure.

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Kubalik
Laughton - Norris - Giroux
Smejkal - Pinto - Batherson
Kelly - Kastelic - MacEwen/Sokolov = $48 mil approx.

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Chychrun
Kleven - Hamonic/JBD = $21 mil

Korpisalo - Forsberg = $7 mil plus Dead Cao $5 mil = $12 mil

Forwards $48 mil + Defence $21 mil + Goalies/Dead Cap $12 mil = $81 mil

Both Laughton and Sundqvist are 29+. I like Sundqvist's size. I would prefer someone else such as Crouse and would be willing to give up Joseph plus to get him. Might have to be first round pick too.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Y’all won’t like to hear it. But I’m gonna say it. Dumba

No room on D, thank god for that.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

No room on D, thank god for that.

Ya pretty obvious which areas need to be focused on with any remaining cap and that's up front.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Garland would be a great pickup if he's still available for free, or even packaged with a pick.

He's put up almost all his goals and points at even strength the last two years, which is key on a team with a loaded top PP that has no more room on it.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Hes 5'10 compared to Debrincat 5'7. If they can survive watching Debrincat for a year then they should be fine.

I think Garland is 5'8.