GDT: Four Nations

[Thechozen1]

Maybe they should just battle it out this way until there's no one left....

I’d want Helle to eff up Binnington!!!

 

[raideralex99]

It's interesting reading everyone's take on this game and how there's so many different opinions too.
Maybe I'm a homer but KFC I thought deserved more ice time and there was nothing wrong with his defensive game.
After Brady Tkachuk (6 hits) KFC was second with 4 hits while only playing 8:32 minutes. Zero give aways compared to Guentzel who played over 20 mins with zero hits and 4 giveaways. Guentzel's two goals were nothing special ... an empty net goal and a weak goal that should have been stopped.
Yes Connor's first game was not good but yesterday's game he got robbed of ice time.
I thought Slavin was the best US player and Helle should have been a star but the way Helle makes it look easy he gets no credit.

 

[Flair Hay]

Is there going to be tournament MVP and all team after the tournament is over?

IF there is, who are the front runner so far for the MVP?

Tkachuk

 

[Gil Fisher]

Canada should've had Bouchard and Dobson up for this event. Sweeney and Armstrong are dinosaurs holding onto the like of Doughty, Parayko and Pietrangelo. We should be looking forward to Milano. Harley was a good recall.

Not sold on Toews at this level either. Doesn't look like he can process as well at this speed. Though I can understand bringing Makar's caddy.

Harley Makar
Morrissey Bouchard
Theodore Dobson
Sanheim Chabot

I think they like Sanheim because he's a left shot that's played a tonne on his offside.

That's a good group for the Olympics.

 

[ps241]

I don't think anyone said that scheifele would have been "the savior" but he definitely would help, canada has scored all it's goals off the rush, you wouldn't lose that ability and you would add one of the hardest players to knock off the puck down low, someone who is very good at maintaining possession until he finds the open man

Nobody is getting to do what they are good at in the NHL, both teams are taking away the time and space so well. Mark loves to gain the line then peel back to the left board and take a look and find an open player. The US team is not letting anyone do that. Better Canadian forwards are coming in and trying to do that like MacK and McDavid but the US back pressure and D pressure are taking away time and space and closing off cross ice plays, shutting off lanes, and they are closing in on the puck carrier right away and engaging physically. It’s why we are seeing such low shot totals.

Both teams are putting on a clinic. We know what KC is great at in the NHL and he isn’t getting a sniff of playing his game. Jack Hughes is awesome and he was getting targeted and shit kicked any time he touched the puck. Matthew’s couldn’t breathe out there. It’s a war and Schief would have to adapt but one thing he couldn’t do would be hold on to the puck. Nobody is getting to do much of that. It would have to be on and off his stick right away and he would mostly be playing without the puck like everyone else.

Edit: ok on more positive note, one guy who is playing very close to his NHL game is Josh Morrissey. He seems to be relaxed and thriving in this environment. Hey there is obviously still way less time and space but he is not intimidated at all by the up leveling of competition. He seems to be adapting and kind of the aggressor. He is not on his heels he is on the attack with and without the puck.

 

[Romang67]

It's super weird seeing fans of other teams talk about what an asset Hellebuyck was taking the play away on the dump-ins and rim-arounds.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Re: the savior term - we can disagree on this point, however IMHO the rest of your comments are excellent.

In my mind, its not about Schuffles playing a savior role. Far from it... rather its simply an automatic choice (should be ??) to recruit and heavily utilize one of Canada's highest scoring forwards on the Canadian team. His inclusion
- is logical
- reflects fair meritocracy vs a buddy-buddy decision
- gives Canada a player whose defensive game is awesome (this year). How can we go wrong?

The worst that can happen is that the Canadian choices are the best possible. The best that can happen is that it allows players (yes, like Schuffles) to contribute, and sometimes this influence may tip the overall balance in a very tight game.

Its been said before, but lots of players (Tampa line) can't compare to Schuffles for his contributions to points and play this year. This cannot be rationally disputed - we can use basic data for this test.

How many times are those that shape the core of Canada's national teams rely on players that are of relatively advanced age and literally past their primes? What may have worked in ca. 2010 - 2015 may not work optimally now.

Thanks for reading to the bottom.

Feel guilty now for skipping the last (second last?) paragraph.

 

[robertocarlos]

On paper, the USA is the better team. On paper, Canada won the game last night. Vonnegut said we'd stay at home in the future cutting out pictures of fish.

 

[Gil Fisher]

It's super weird seeing fans of other teams talk about what an asset Hellebuyck was taking the play away on the dump-ins and rim-arounds.

To be fair, he's really good at that.

 

[gojetsgo]

Nobody is getting to do what they are good at in the NHL, both teams are taking away the time and space so well. Mark loves to gain the line then peel back to the left board and take a look and find an open player. The US team is not letting anyone do that. Better Canadian forwards are coming in and trying to do that like MacK and McDavid but the US back pressure and D pressure are taking away time and space and closing off cross ice plays, shutting off lanes, and they are closinging in on the puck carrier right away and engaging physically. It’s why we are seeing such low shot totals.

Both teams are putting on a clinic. We know what KC is great at in the NHL and he isn’t getting a sniff of playing his game. Jack Hughes is awesome and he was getting targeted and shit kicked any time he touched the puck. Matthew’s couldn’t breathe out there. It’s a war and Schief would have to adapt but one thing he couldn’t do would be hold on to the puck. Nobody is getting to do much of that. It would have to be on and off his stick right away and he would mostly be playing without the puck like everyone else.

were just going to have to agree to disagree, I see scheifele being able to help this team more then most of the players in the bottom six

 

[EpicGingy]

It's super weird seeing fans of other teams talk about what an asset Hellebuyck was taking the play away on the dump-ins and rim-arounds.

We dunked on Hellebuyck for years for being bad at handling the puck, but that really hasn't been the case for a few seasons. He's one of the best in the league at that now.

 

[kanadalainen]

Feel guilty now for skipping the last (second last?) paragraph.

Aha, but you did notice that it was there.

 

[surixon]

This whole Scheifele thing is getting silly. Most of the forwards team Canada selected for its top 9 have more points or are within a couple points of Scheifele. Point and Rheinhart have the same number of goals.

Canada took more then enough talent to this tournament.

People may not like the concept of a shut down line for Canada but the Tampa group blanketed the Americans top line and gave them nothing. You can't have it both ways as a Jet fan, you can't be a big proponent of the Lowry shut down line and then complain that Canada is also using said concept.

 

[FonRiesen]

44 will probably play over 25 minutes tonight. He always seems to be on the ice.

Morrissey was the best player on the ice for Canada.

 

[kanadalainen]

Canada took more then enough talent to this tournament.

With all respect, one goal in yesterday's game may shove a spanner in this well-oiled line of thinking.

One goal doth butter no parsnips m'lord.

Also: Binnington is not the goalie to win this thing.

 

[gojetsgo]

This whole Scheifele thing is getting silly. Most of the forwards team Canada selected for its top 9 have more points or are within a couple points of Scheifele. Point and Rheinhart have the same number of goals.

Canada took more then enough talent to this tournament.

People may not like the concept of a shut down line for Canada but the Tampa group blanketed the Americans top line and gave them nothing. You can't have it both ways as a Jet fan, you can't be a big proponent of the Lowry shut down line and then complain that Canada is also using said concept.

why are you singling out point and reinhart as if those were the forwards scheifele would replace? and I don't think people are upset at canada having a shut down line... it's more of the fact that they have 2 shut down lines

seriously, all of their offence has come off the rush, they need someone that can bring another element to their game and scheifele is one of the hardest guys to knock off the puck down low, someone that can get you extra time to get open...

like people defending canada's roster choices when they took binnington to be the starter and doughty as a replacement after he just came back and has looked bad with the kings...

 

[Hobble]

I concur with those who said Harley was a good call up. I was surprised by how solid he was, and seemed to be getting the puck on net often. Shame we can’t sub him in over Doughty or another worse D.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

On paper, the USA is the better team. On paper, Canada won the game last night. Vonnegut said we'd stay at home in the future cutting out pictures of fish.

Never enough vonnegut references

 

[FonRiesen]

I started looking up the stats of all the players compared to Scheifele and I got annoyed and depressed after just two.

Yeah, my boys were doing that, too - though apparently Schief went on an absolute tear right after Canada announced the roster. But it's obvious now they made a mistake.

On the US side, KFC should be getting more ice time - he's the highest scoring US player, but getting 3rd line usage. Ah, national team politics... Always something to complain about!

 

[ps241]

Re: the savior term - we can disagree on this point, however IMHO the rest of your comments are excellent.

In my mind, its not about Schuffles playing a savior role. Far from it... rather its simply an automatic choice (should be ??) to recruit and heavily utilize one of Canada's highest scoring forwards on the Canadian team. His inclusion
- is logical
- reflects fair meritocracy vs a buddy-buddy decision
- gives Canada a player whose defensive game is awesome (this year). How can we go wrong?

The worst that can happen is that the Canadian choices are the best possible. The best that can happen is that it allows players (yes, like Schuffles) to contribute, and sometimes this influence may tip the overall balance in a very tight game.

Its been said before, but lots of players (Tampa line) can't compare to Schuffles for his contributions to points and play this year. This cannot be rationally disputed - we can use basic data for this test.

How many times are those that shape the core of Canada's national teams rely on players that are of relatively advanced age and literally past their primes? What may have worked in ca. 2010 - 2015 may not work optimally now.

Thanks for reading to the bottom.

Savior was the wrong word. I was a bit pissed off that many were thinking it was in insult to Schiefele when most of the guys on this team put up really good point totals and this isn’t just about scoring its also about being able to defend really well and score.

I think I broke down most of why I thought Scheifele was on the bubble going into the process in a previous post.

I think it might have been nice to slot him on the 4th line as the centre and maybe not go with a checking line. As I said I think there are only two forwards that are pure role players (Cirelli and Bennett).

The main thing is Schiefele doesn’t play Schiefele minutes or the Schiefele role on this team Canada if he were to squeeze on the roster. He would be asked to play a different role.

Keep in mind this Canadian team did a great job of shutting down the US last night. Not like this was a blow out, it was a hard fought 1 goal game that was tightly played.

I didn’t love some of the choices on this team but I still think Mark was bubble at best. Not totally sold on him as a depth piece fit but I would be willing to find out.

 

[FonRiesen]

Jets would beat this Canada team!

I agree. Jets play like a team. Canada & USA actually looked fairly garbage (with the US playing prevent defense for half the game with 4 guys behind the blue line...) - passing was off, no chemistry. When a good pass happened, the receiving player often is not receiving the pass well. I expected more.

Though if Makar was healthy, this game would have been closer.

Edit: some are saying they were putting on a clinic, but I just saw a bunch of individuals playing. Timing off, a few set plays but nothing spectacular. These are elite players, so individual efforts were fine (McD's goal was great). But I don't consider the US turtling to be amazing hockey strategy. And that only worked because Helle will stop the 1st shot and the US D cleaned up rebounds. So good job Helle.

Other games have been more entertaining. </old man rant>

 

[ps241]

were just going to have to agree to disagree, I see scheifele being able to help this team more then most of the players in the bottom six

Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree and am fine being the decenting voice.

 

[tbcwpg]

We all know how good Hellebuyck is, I didn't feel like Canada would get a 2nd goal there unless the US had a breakdown and they didn't really. The only one I can think of was a 2 on 1 where McDavid tried the pass instead of just shooting. I think we see this a lot with teams playing against Hellebuyck, they know he's good so they think they need to go fancy to beat him.

Connor wasn't very impactful, I don't really care as he's not being overworked going into the end of the season.

The Larkin winner was a great shot, not sure most goalies would get that. The first Guentzel goal was brutal. For some reason this tournament is making most goalies look silly. Gustavsson has been bad, Saros had some stinkers, the Finnish OT winner didn't make Ullmark look very good and Binnington has allowed a bad one each game.

Forgot to mention Morrissey, I thought he was pretty good, felt like he was Canada's 1D yesterday and played well.

 

[FonRiesen]

From the Jets' perspective I'm very glad Schief didn't get chosen. Lit a fire under him.

This 4 Nation's thing is way better than an all-star game, but it's still no Olympics...

 

[ps241]

It's super weird seeing fans of other teams talk about what an asset Hellebuyck was taking the play away on the dump-ins and rim-arounds.

I have to admit I have PTSD from that part of his game from earlier in his career but he has gotten allot better at it and yea he looked really good playing the puck last night. It felt weird even keyboarding that comment.