Forsberg vs Crosby

[Kale Makar]

It has to be Foppa. He dominated the game in every aspect in a way Crosby will never be able to.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I have them at the same level. Ultimately, it comes down to this: How often did someone get Forsberg off his game the way Detroit (2009), Montreal (2010), Philadelphia (2012), and Boston (2013) did to Crosby? Maybe Chicago in 1996? The guy danced around Lidstrom and Chelios in years where they were healthy and Sakic wasn't contributing. Crosby's incredible, but he couldn't break-through against an injured Detroit team, so I don't know that he'd fare any better against a pre-Salary Cap one when he's getting handled on a yearly basis.

This is what tipped the scale for me.

It's very close though.

 

[livewell68]

One time he scored 30 goals!

It was twice actually and Forsberg did hit 25 + goals or more 5 times in his career, for a guy that was such a great playmaker, he wasn't so bad at scoring goals.

I think it is a lot closer than some are making it out to be.

I mean Forsberg is the same player that some have claimed was better than Jagr in his prime (I don't agree with that BTW).

 

[Kale Makar]

Can you please explain this? I don't think even the biggest Forsberg fan would say that he was scarier offensively.

Have you seen some of the things he did with the puck, he could skate through an entire team and score whenever he wanted.

 

[livewell68]

I'd agree with all this. I might take Forsberg over early, primarily puck distributing Crosby, but I don't take him over the "new-and-improved" 50 goal scoring and mad faceoff winning version - even with the concussion concerns (which, if "balancing", would cancel concerns for injuries to Forsberg's most lethal weapons: his feet/legs).

Crosby scored 50 goals once in his career, calling him a 50 goals scorer is pretty much saying he is a sniper on the same level as Ovechkin and Stamkos which is clearly not the case.

Forsberg's 2 best seasons (1995-96 and 2002-03) I think are equal if not superior to Crosby's best seasons (2006-07 and 2009-10).

Forsberg also was more clutch than Crosby.

Crosby's attributes are being vastly overrated on here.

Does he have many weaknesses as a hockey player? No but he is that much better than Forsberg? Absoultely not.

Forsberg was better defensively, was stronger on the puck, bigger and stronger in general, an equal skater, an equal playmaker, a more clutch player and could play a better physical game. Crosby will never overpower players with his physicality and lay out hits, Forsberg was the type of player that could just skate over someone with his strength.

 

[Tyrus]

Have you seen some of the things he did with the puck, he could skate through an entire team and score whenever he wanted.

Makes total sense considering he never scored more than 30 goals, a feat that even Max ******* Pacioretty achieved rather easily.

Crosby is a better offensive player, don't care if he doesn't "dominate the play" or "let everyone lagging behind", he scores more, that's it.

 

[livewell68]

Makes total sense considering he never scored more than 30 goals, a feat that even Max ******* Pacioretty achieved rather easily.

Crosby is a better offensive player, don't care if he doesn't "dominate the play" or "let everyone lagging behind", he scores more, that's it.

.... or maybe that Forsberg was a true pure playmaker? The two times that Forsberg tied his career high in shots on goal (217) he scored 30 goals both times. 217 shots on net is very little for an elite player in general. What's to say that if Forsberg for instance was to take 298 shots on net (the amount Crosby took when he scored 51 goals) that his career high in goals wouldn't have been higher? I mean Crosby and Forsberg's career shooting percentages are almost identical with Crosby holding a 14.9 % edge to Forsberg's 14.7 %. Extrapolate 14.7 % shooting to 298 shots on net and Forsberg's career high in goals would have been 44 goals.

BTW, other than the 2 times Forsberg scored 30 goals, he played at a 30 + goals pace 4 other times; in 1996-97 when he scored 28 goals in 65 games (35 goals pace), in 2000-01 when he scored 27 goals in 73 games (30 goals pace), in 2002-03 when he scored 29 goals in 75 games (32 goals pace) and in 2003-04 when he scored 18 goals in 39 games (38 goals pace).

I have been critical of Forsberg's game in the past when he was being compared to Jagr but I feel he is being vastly underrated now.

I have come to the realization that Crosby along with Datsyuk are the two most overrated players in NHL history.

 

[Ben Grimm]

.... or maybe that Forsberg was a true pure playmaker? The two times that Forsberg tied his career high in shots on goal (217) he scored 30 goals both times. 217 shots on net is very little for an elite player in general. What's to say that if Forsberg for instance was to take 298 shots on net (the amount Crosby took when he scored 51 goals) that his career high in goals wouldn't have been higher? I mean Crosby and Forsberg's career shooting percentages are almost identical with Crosby holding a 14.9 % edge to Forsberg's 14.7 %. Extrapolate 14.7 % shooting to 298 shots on net and Forsberg's career high in goals would have been 44 goals. I have been critical of Forsberg's game in the past when he was being compared to Jagr but I feel he is being vastly underrated now. I have come to the realization that Crosby along with Datsyuk are the two most overrated players in NHL history.

Agreed. "He (Forsberg) would leave the game with the fourth best assist-per-game percentage of all-time behind only the legendary Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr." http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=10490
Forsberg is the 4th greatest passer ever at any position. Crosby has only played 470 games and his future is uncertain. Even the oft injured Orr and Forsberg played around 200-240 games more with 657 and 708 games respectively. Crosby is overrated.

 

[Ishdul]

Have you seen some of the things he did with the puck, he could skate through an entire team and score whenever he wanted.

As opposed to Crosby? Forsberg "only" led the league in per game scoring twice, which while obviously fantastic in a vacuum doesn't scream "score whenever he wanted". Crosby has led it 4 times in his first 8 years, which seems more appropriate for someone who can "score whenever he wanted".
I also think this is a bit of a misrepresentation of the way Forsberg scored. It sounds like more of a description of Jagr, Lemieux or maybe Bure. Forsberg was a possession beast thanks to his puck skills, determination and physical prowess and also had great vision and passing which made him a premier playmaker but he wasn't going through teams to score with any regularity. And by "score", you mean "assist", right? He wasn't a big goal scorer in contrast with his other abilities, and that description seems more appropriate for a goal scorer.

.... or maybe that Forsberg was a true pure playmaker? The two times that Forsberg tied his career high in shots on goal (217) he scored 30 goals both times. 217 shots on net is very little for an elite player in general. What's to say that if Forsberg for instance was to take 298 shots on net (the amount Crosby took when he scored 51 goals) that his career high in goals wouldn't have been higher? I mean Crosby and Forsberg's career shooting percentages are almost identical with Crosby holding a 14.9 % edge to Forsberg's 14.7 %. Extrapolate 14.7 % shooting to 298 shots on net and Forsberg's career high in goals would have been 44 goals.

BTW, other than the 2 times Forsberg scored 30 goals, he played at a 30 + goals pace 4 other times; in 1996-97 when he scored 28 goals in 65 games (35 goals pace), in 2000-01 when he scored 27 goals in 73 games (30 goals pace), in 2002-03 when he scored 29 goals in 75 games (32 goals pace) and in 2003-04 when he scored 18 goals in 39 games (38 goals pace).

I have been critical of Forsberg's game in the past when he was being compared to Jagr but I feel he is being vastly underrated now.

I have come to the realization that Crosby along with Datsyuk are the two most overrated players in NHL history.

I don't know why you would extrapolate shots like that. It doesn't work like that. If Forsberg could maintain the same shooting percentage while shooting more he would have done it, and if you're saying that he sacrificed his goal scoring for playmaking than that doesn't seem like a positive. Crosby's record as a playmaker is even with Forsberg's and he has a better record as a goal scorer, which is a pretty clear reason to favour Crosby offensively.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Crosby scored 50 goals once in his career, calling him a 50 goals scorer is pretty much saying he is a sniper on the same level as Ovechkin and Stamkos which is clearly not the case.

well crosby is 4th in GPG among active players and through their 1st 8 seasons this is how they rank in pure raw totals and then compared to their peers Peters rank is based on his 1st 7 seasons, he missed his 8th and had an excellent 9th season 95-01)

Goals Sid is 11th even with all his time missed, Foppa was 29th
assists Sid is 3rd, Foppa was 2nd
Points Sid is 3rd, Forsberg was 4th

Forsberg's 2 best seasons (1995-96 and 2002-03) I think are equal if not superior to Crosby's best seasons (2006-07 and 2009-10).

Perhaps but Sids rookie season was also quite a bit better and his 4th as well, not that

Forsberg also was more clutch than Crosby.

Forsberg was probably better in the playoffs sure

Crosby's attributes are being vastly overrated on here.

which ones

-being 4th in GPG among active players?
-being 3rd in points over 8 seasons despite playing in 131 and 147 less games than the top 2 guys which are exactly 70 and 32 points ahead?

Does he have many weaknesses as a hockey player? No but he is that much better than Forsberg? Absoultely not.

Forsberg was better defensively, was stronger on the puck, bigger and stronger in general, an equal skater, an equal playmaker, a more clutch player and could play a better physical game. Crosby will never overpower players with his physicality and lay out hits, Forsberg was the type of player that could just skate over someone with his strength.

One could take Foppa right now but it will only take 1 or 2 more seasons to take Sid for sure IMO.

 

[AvsWraith]

I would love to see Crosby battle the Detroit and Dallas teams from that era just to see how he would handle it. Would be interesting.

 

[Hardyvan123]

.... or maybe that Forsberg was a true pure playmaker? The two times that Forsberg tied his career high in shots on goal (217) he scored 30 goals both times. 217 shots on net is very little for an elite player in general. What's to say that if Forsberg for instance was to take 298 shots on net (the amount Crosby took when he scored 51 goals) that his career high in goals wouldn't have been higher? I mean Crosby and Forsberg's career shooting percentages are almost identical with Crosby holding a 14.9 % edge to Forsberg's 14.7 %. Extrapolate 14.7 % shooting to 298 shots on net and Forsberg's career high in goals would have been 44 goals.

BTW, other than the 2 times Forsberg scored 30 goals, he played at a 30 + goals pace 4 other times; in 1996-97 when he scored 28 goals in 65 games (35 goals pace), in 2000-01 when he scored 27 goals in 73 games (30 goals pace), in 2002-03 when he scored 29 goals in 75 games (32 goals pace) and in 2003-04 when he scored 18 goals in 39 games (38 goals pace).

I have been critical of Forsberg's game in the past when he was being compared to Jagr but I feel he is being vastly underrated now.

I have come to the realization that Crosby along with Datsyuk are the two most overrated players in NHL history.

How is Dats over rated he is in the top 5 players among his peers during his time in the league but no one puts him at 1 or 2.

Heck even if Dats was only average defensively and he is well above average he is 6th in points since the lockout.

From 02-13 he is 7th in points in the league (regular season) and 5th in the playoffs.

Imagine if he was any good defensively eh?

 

[revolverjgw]

Crosby, he's as good at playmaking and easily better at scoring goals, and that's definitely the most important advantage either of them has over the other

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Have you seen some of the things he did with the puck, he could skate through an entire team and score whenever he wanted.

Then he must not have wanted to score very often, since as has already been pointed out, he never broke 30 goals in a season.

Yes, I'm aware Forsberg became more of a balanced scorer in the playoffs.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Agreed. "He (Forsberg) would leave the game with the fourth best assist-per-game percentage of all-time behind only the legendary Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr." http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=10490
Forsberg is the 4th greatest passer ever at any position. Crosby has only played 470 games and his future is uncertain. Even the oft injured Orr and Forsberg played around 200-240 games more with 657 and 708 games respectively. Crosby is overrated.

And yet right now, the assists-per-game ledger reads:

Forsberg: 0.90
Crosby: 0.91

Crosby is now 25, and has scored 238 goals to go with 427 assists. Forsberg by age 25? 128 goals to go with 312 assists. Crosby is already ahead of Forsberg's curve. You don't want to see the post season comparison up to age 25, either.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Crosby scored 50 goals once in his career, calling him a 50 goals scorer is pretty much saying he is a sniper on the same level as Ovechkin and Stamkos which is clearly not the case.

Forsberg's 2 best seasons (1995-96 and 2002-03) I think are equal if not superior to Crosby's best seasons (2006-07 and 2009-10).

Forsberg also was more clutch than Crosby.

Crosby's attributes are being vastly overrated on here.

Does he have many weaknesses as a hockey player? No but he is that much better than Forsberg? Absoultely not.

Forsberg was better defensively, was stronger on the puck, bigger and stronger in general, an equal skater, an equal playmaker, a more clutch player and could play a better physical game. Crosby will never overpower players with his physicality and lay out hits, Forsberg was the type of player that could just skate over someone with his strength.

These are the reasons I picked Forsberg

 

[Ishdul]

I also don't see how Forsberg's 95/96 is equal if not superior to Crosby's 06/07 and 09/10. It's a worse season scoring wise and he finished 13th in the Hart voting compared to pretty cleanly 1st and narrowly 3rd.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I have them at the same level. Ultimately, it comes down to this: How often did someone get Forsberg off his game the way Detroit (2009), Montreal (2010), Philadelphia (2012), and Boston (2013) did to Crosby? Maybe Chicago in 1996? The guy danced around Lidstrom and Chelios in years where they were healthy and Sakic wasn't contributing. Crosby's incredible, but he couldn't break-through against an injured Detroit team, so I don't know that he'd fare any better against a pre-Salary Cap one when he's getting handled on a yearly basis.

Raising a very good point.

While I think you can point to how Crosby was better at certain aspects of the game (namely, goal-scoring), he simply isn't as well-rounded as Forsberg was. Forsberg's complete game made it really hard to shut him down, especially come playoffs.

He's one of the few guys in the past 30 years who could truly dangle around you, or just go through you.

 

[shazariahl]

Raising a very good point.

While I think you can point to how Crosby was better at certain aspects of the game (namely, goal-scoring), he simply isn't as well-rounded as Forsberg was. Forsberg's complete game made it really hard to shut him down, especially come playoffs.

He's one of the few guys in the past 30 years who could truly dangle around you, or just go through you.

While true, as others have pointed Crosby manages to still score at a higher pace. IMO this is another example of people choosing flash over results. Crosby doesn't have all the sweet-looking dangles that other have (not that he's bad by any means, its just there are others who are way better), but at the end of the day he manages to generate more PPG. I'll take the guy with the better results.

And Crosby's all-round game is pretty good. OK, maybe not quite Forsberg level, but he's clearly a better goal-scorer, and a better faceoff man too, IMO. Crosby's been shut down sometimes in the post season, but as others have shown, Forsberg had his lackluster playoff performances as well.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Forsberg:
-1 goal 1 assists in 6 games against Chicago in 1995-1996.
-2 goals 2 assists in 6 games against Detroit in 1995-1996.
-0 goals 1 assists in 5 games against Detroit in 1996-1997.
-2 goals 3 assists in 7 games against Dallas in 1990-2000.
-1 goal 2 assists in 6 games against San Jose in 2003-2004.
-2 goals 2 assists in 5 games against San Jose in 2006-2007.
-1 goal 4 assists in 7 games against Minnesota and Detroit in 2007-2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------
GP G A P PPG
42 9 15 24 0.57

Compared to those series you mentioned for Crosby:
-0 goals 0 assists in 4 games against Boston in 2012-2013.
-3 goals 5 assists in 6 games against Philadelphia in 2011-2012.
-1 goal 4 assists in 7 games against Montreal in 2009-2010.
-1 goal 2 assists in 7 games against Detroit in 2008-2009.
----------------------------------------------------------------
GP G A P PPG
24 5 11 16 0.667

So taking Crosby's series you listed and the worst ones by Forsberg statistically, Crosby still wins. Remove the Philly series (not sure why you included that one, he played fine), Crosby has in his 3 worst series:

Crosby:
GP G A P PPG
18 2 6 8 0.444

Still not much worse than the Forsberg ones above. Of course if you take only Forsbergs 3 worst you get:

Forsberg:
GP G A P PPG
17 2 4 6 0.352

In points Crosby is better at his worst than Forsberg at his worst and better at his best than Forsberg at his best. Forsberg's best series is 12 points in 7 games or 11 points in 6 games. Crosby's is 14 points in 6 games or 13 points in 7 games.

Okay, since nobody else has said it, I will. Why are you including Forberg's 2007-08 playoffs when he was injured and on the verge of retirement as anything that is worth comparing to Crosby's career?

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Forsberg's defense is somewhat overrated.

He was a physical guy and good defensively, but not one of the best.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Forsberg's defense is somewhat overrated.

He was a physical guy and good defensively, but not one of the best.

I agree with you, but I think his defense was still better than Crosby's. IMO, Crosby's defensive effort is very inconsistent - for example, he was atrocious defensively against Philadelphia in the 2012 playoffs.

 

[Fredrik_71]

Forsberg for me, but I'm biased.

If only looking at peak value and it was the 7th game of the SC finale I would choose Forsberg every time. But going with career value its pretty close but as previous people has said Crosby is only 25. If he can keep healthy he should be a clear winner between them soon enough.

To bad no one of them can/could keep healthy

 

[begbeee]

Not sure if it has been said, but Crosby was always #1 one target on the ice (if it's based on his skills or because he is easy pushed out of his comfort zone), Forsberg played more of a Malkin's role on the ice - being the big #2. Yet, Crosby managed to get the better numbers out of this comparision.
To be fair, when Sakic or Malkin out, both didn't do much team wise, yet, again, Crosby somehow wins this battle, too.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Not sure if it has been said, but Crosby was always #1 one target on the ice (if it's based on his skills or because he is easy pushed out of his comfort zone), Forsberg played more of a Malkin's role on the ice - being the big #2. Yet, Crosby managed to get the better numbers out of this comparision.
To be fair, when Sakic or Malkin out, both didn't do much team wise, yet, again, Crosby somehow wins this battle, too.

Malkin was arguably the Flyers biggest target in 2012. They put Couturier, our best defensive forward by miles...and Coburn+Grossmann, our best shut-down defensive pairing against Malkin.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time..._p&f2=5v5&f5=PHI&c=0+1+3+5+8+9+11+13+29+31+33

They didn't focus their best D-talent on Crosby. The focused it on Malkin.