Player Discussion Former Habs & Picks watch: Gone but not forgotten (No Current NHLers) II

[Lafleurs Guy]

I can't explain because I don't have the inside informations. Again, go ask the coaches and gms of the 7 teams he went. Or maybe you have insiders infos you can share?

Inside information?

Please.

From outside and few infos I was able to get, I think coach Therrien and Arizoma coach had their reasons and the corporate public relations avoid to tell the reasons. I wont lose sleep because of this, there is no conspiracy, it's just bad management, a player who doesn't help himself and fans like you who want to rewrite history. Case should be closed and forgotten.

Right, it's bad management. Thank you.

The simple fact is we had an idiot coach and he badly mismanaged the team and this player. That's the answer I was looking for.

Glad we agree or at least appear to.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Inside information?

Please.

Right, it's bad management. Thank you.

The simple fact is we had an idiot coach and he badly mismanaged the team and this player. That's the answer I was looking for.

Glad we agree or at least appear to.

Thanks. On your side you agree with my complete sentence and not a small part of it, heh.
You don't have to answer, tkx.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Thanks. On your side you agree with my complete sentence and not a small part of it, heh.
You don't have to answer, tkx.

I agree that it was bad management. That's what I've been saying all along. You appear to concur. If not, say so. Because again, there's no other explanation. You weren't able to provide one and I certainly can't.

And it's not surprising at all that a bad coach would mismanage this player given his track record of mismanaging prospects in general. Therrien was a poor tactical coach, poor communicator, poor motivator, a bully and an all around terrible coach.

His stupidity explains the situation. There's really nothing else to it. Therrien didn't play him there because he was an idiot.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I agree that it was bad management. That's what I've been saying all along. You appear to concur. If not, say so. Because again, there's no other explanation. You weren't able to provide one and I certainly can't.

And it's not surprising at all that a bad coach would mismanage this player given his track record of mismanaging prospects in general. Therrien was a poor tactical coach, poor communicator, poor motivator, a bully and an all around terrible coach.

His stupidity explains the situation. There's really nothing else to it. Therrien didn't play him there because he was an idiot.

Ah come on !

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Ah come on !

What do you disagree with here?

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

What do you disagree with here?

Your personal and persisting obsession about Therrien. NHL Teams are filled with bullies and dinosaurs. Get over it. When you post angry posts like this you sounds like a 12 y teenager. 31 teams don't win the Cup every year. There are teams who haven't won anything and I don't think they have angry fans like you, except surely Toronto.

Now I have to be in an unconfort position : defend Therrien, omg, I hate that. He was a nhl coach, you and me : not. He made Chuck having his best carreer year, right? He lead the Habs with more pts in a season than a lot of coaches never did in 25 years, right? There is little credit on his side. He was the coach when Crosby started to be a star and he went to the SCF. Now, I don't like him but he's not the monster you depict. There are shades of grey.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Your personal and persisting obsession about Therrien. NHL Teams are filled with bullies and dinosaurs. Get over it. When you post angry posts like this you sounds like a 12 y teenager. 31 teams don't win the Cup every year. There are teams who haven't won anything and I don't think they have angry fans like you, except surely Toronto.

Now I have to be in an unconfort position : defend Therrien, omg, I hate that. He was a nhl coach, you and me : not. He made Chuck having his best carreer year, right? He lead the Habs with more pts in a season than a lot of coaches never did in 25 years, right? There is little credit on his side. He was the coach when Crosby started to be a star and he went to the SCF. Now, I don't like him but he's not the monster you depict. There are shades of grey.

Oh I'm definitely angry with Therrien and I enjoy venting on him. I feel he was personally responsible for ensuring we didn't win at least one cup.

That doesn't mean I'm not right.

He was a demonstrably bad coach. And there is no excuse for handling Chuck the way he did. It was a bad coaching decision, one that's easily demonstrable as well. He was a God awful coach.

 

[teamfirst]

Oh I'm definitely angry with Therrien and I enjoy venting on him. I feel he was personally responsible for ensuring we didn't win at least one cup.

That doesn't mean I'm not right.

He was a demonstrably bad coach. And there is no excuse for handling Chuck the way he did. It was a bad coaching decision, one that's easily demonstrable as well. He was a God awful coach.

Most importantly that doesn't mean you are right

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Most importantly that doesn't mean you are right

My venting doesn't make me right. It just gives me satisfaction.

But there's no justifiable reason to have used DD ahead of Chuck. That has nothing to do with my feelings on Therrien either. It simply doesn't make sense to play inferior players over better, younger ones.

I have yet to see anything close to an argument that says otherwise.

 

[The Great Weal]

Your personal and persisting obsession about Therrien. NHL Teams are filled with bullies and dinosaurs. Get over it. When you post angry posts like this you sounds like a 12 y teenager. 31 teams don't win the Cup every year. There are teams who haven't won anything and I don't think they have angry fans like you, except surely Toronto.

Now I have to be in an unconfort position : defend Therrien, omg, I hate that. He was a nhl coach, you and me : not. He made Chuck having his best carreer year, right? He lead the Habs with more pts in a season than a lot of coaches never did in 25 years, right? There is little credit on his side. He was the coach when Crosby started to be a star and he went to the SCF. Now, I don't like him but he's not the monster you depict. There are shades of grey.

I don't think MT was a good coach, but he's not the reason why Galchenyuk isn't producing Kane/McDavid/Crosby. Can't help but look at Morgan Rielly who had terrible d partners for years, and had two incredibly toxic coaches in Carlyle and Babcock (who's done far more abusive things than what we've read/seen from MT) yet he didn't fall apart like Galchenyuk.

I do think the development sucks and is largely to blame, I've made that very clear. For instance, the fact that McCarron and Poehling are doing well as bottom 6 centers elsewhere supports this. These are genuine examples of us poorly developing a player. That being said, are those two players key players? That to me shows that Timmins can't draft helpful talent consistently like other teams, and the few low-upside players that do make it weren't properly developed.

You look at a guy like Suzuki who was playing right wing with Weal and Thompson on the 4th line and we still developed him excellently. The difference is that we acquired Suzuki since Timmins couldn't draft a forward like him. Danault is another example of a player we developed but we also didn't draft him.

While both are to blame, it's definitely drafting that was the bigger issue.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I don't think MT was a good coach, but he's not the reason why Galchenyuk isn't producing Kane/McDavid/Crosby. Can't help but look at Morgan Rielly who had terrible d partners for years, and had two incredibly toxic coaches in Carlyle and Babcock (who's done far more abusive things than what we've read/seen from MT) yet he didn't fall apart like Galchenyuk.

I do think the development sucks and is largely to blame, I've made that very clear. For instance, the fact that McCarron and Poehling are doing well as bottom 6 centers elsewhere supports this. These are genuine examples of us poorly developing a player. That being said, are those two players key players? That to me shows that Timmins can't draft helpful talent consistently like other teams, and the few low-upside players that do make it weren't properly developed.

You look at a guy like Suzuki who was playing right wing with Weal and Thompson on the 4th line and we still developed him excellently. The difference is that we acquired Suzuki since Timmins couldn't draft a forward like him. Danault is another example of a player we developed but we also didn't draft him.

While both are to blame, it's definitely drafting that was the bigger issue.

Timmins never had it with forwards and mostly centers. Very few forwards who did something are Paccio and Gallagher in 18 years. We could add Lehkonen, Evans and who else? Pezz, Ylonen, ... ... DAgostino... sorry I'm already yawning, can help it. He never drafted a single center who did something. They all became major flops. He have a perfect score of big Zero with centers. I think the center he drafted who did the best is Evans.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't think MT was a good coach, but he's not the reason why Galchenyuk isn't producing Kane/McDavid/Crosby.

Nobody said Galchenyuk was Crosby.

Therrien though refused to play him on the first line and that definitely limited his production. Even if he would've been a mediocre one way center he was the best option we had and didn't use him.

Can't help but look at Morgan Rielly who had terrible d partners for years, and had two incredibly toxic coaches in Carlyle and Babcock (who's done far more abusive things than what we've read/seen from MT) yet he didn't fall apart like Galchenyuk.

Galchenyuk produced when used on the first. That's simply a fact.

Unfortunately, he ran into injury issues and that pretty much messed up the back half of his career. He also owns the issues he ran into afterwards as well. Nobody would blame that on Montreal.

I do think the development sucks and is largely to blame, I've made that very clear. For instance, the fact that McCarron and Poehling are doing well as bottom 6 centers elsewhere supports this. These are genuine examples of us poorly developing a player. That being said, are those two players key players? That to me shows that Timmins can't draft helpful talent consistently like other teams, and the few low-upside players that do make it weren't properly developed.

Impossible to know.

How much better would Galchenyuk have been? Significantly better. We know this from the usage and his production when put there. Unfortunately, he wasn't there for very long so it limits what we can really see. And again, Louis Leblanc... where would he have been? It was so bad for him that he quit the sport altogether mirroring Terry Ryan who left under Therrien years earlier. Both guys were first round picks and projected to be good players. Leblanc is more SL's failure than MT's but it shows the culture that was there.

You look at a guy like Suzuki who was playing right wing with Weal and Thompson on the 4th line and we still developed him excellently. The difference is that we acquired Suzuki since Timmins couldn't draft a forward like him. Danault is another example of a player we developed but we also didn't draft him.

While both are to blame, it's definitely drafting that was the bigger issue.

The results don't support your argument. Drafting was very good before and after MB's regime. While MB was here though we couldn't produce anything. That doesn't mean that Timmins was great but it should've been much better than it was.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Timmins never had it with forwards and mostly centers. Very few forwards who did something are Paccio and Gallagher in 18 years. We could add Lehkonen, Evans and who else? Pezz, Ylonen, ... ... DAgostino... sorry I'm already yawning, can help it. He never drafted a single center who did something. They all became major flops. He have a perfect score of big Zero with centers. I think the center he drafted who did the best is Evans.

Three centers with mid/high picks. Chuck, Leblanc and KK. The first two were good picks developed poorly. Even now Chuck is like 4th in scoring in that draft. KK was a reach... and it looks flat out bad now. Unlike Chuck, KK has had every opportunity to build a career with a good club but hasn't. You can't blame injury there.

As for other forwards. Max was the best he got. Gallagher was another good one. Latendresse was actually a strong producer and had a chance at being a star but concussions got in the way. Moreover, before the MB regime came he had some pretty good depth players with lower picks. Grabovsky, S Kostytsyn, Lapierre. Afterwards, Caufield, Roy look great and there are later value picks like RHP, Kidney and Farrel that we'll see on.

His big misses would be KK and A Kostitsyn who never became what we'd hoped he would.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Scott Walford, a 3rd round pick in 2017 (68th overall) and was never signed has been signed to an ATO by Syracuse in the AHL.



After his junior career, he went to play for McGill for 3 years in USports. He will finally get a chance to play pro 7 years after being drafted.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Traktor up 3-0

2023-24p

Chelyabinsk Traktor

KHL

9

0

0

550

21

0

0

2.29

7

2

0

327

0.940

 

[Steve Shutt]

Thought Bob Gainey was worth a shout out for his incredible contributions to our franchise over multiple decades:

• Drafted 8th Overall in 1973
• Played 1160 NHL games all with MTL
• Four Time Selke Trophy Winner (78, 79, 80, 81)
• Conn Smyth Trophy Winner (79)
• Stanley Cup Winner (76, 77, 78, 79, 86, 99)
• 239 NHL Goals
• 262 NHL Assists
• 501 NHL Points
• 182 NHL Playoff Games
• Coached MTL to 29-21-3
• MTL GM 2003-2010
• #23 jersey retired
• Inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame
• Ranked on The Hockey News' list of the 100 Greatest Hockey Players

Very few players/staff have had such an powerful impact on our historic franchise

 

[salbutera]

I thought Gainey’s best moment was telling the reporter his wife should “stick to baking bread”

 

[Tabarouette]

Okay Bob's secret account we get it, you love yourself, we figured that out when you retired your own number already

 

[The Last Red]

I thought he had died or something. Thankfully not.

 

[Tyson]

Why?

 

[Tabarouette]

Thought Pierre Dagenais was worth a shout out for his incredible contributions to our franchise over 2 seasons:

• Drafted TWICE, something none of the top 10 scorers of all time have ever been able to reproduce
• Played the equivalent of a full season with the team, leaving room for younger players to develop
• Won best drinker at Chez Paré twice (2004, 2005)
• Could barely skate but was somehow elite in shootouts??
• Partially coached the Montreal Canadiens (told Koivu nice shot one time, Koivu didn't hear him)
• Part of a cool group (three amigos)
• Inducted into the hall of fame of La Casa Grecque in Blainville
  

Very few players/staff have had such an powerful impact on our historic franchise

 

[the]

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Why?

start of the playoffs is a tough time for Habs fans lately we all deal in our own way

 

[Tuggy]

Geez, I thought he died...

 

[CheldishGamibno]

We need a Thomas Beauregard tribute