Flying elbow to the head, injure the rookie, crosscheck to the neck...nothing?

[LDN]

Errrr...

Shit

 

[AllDay28]

I had a good laugh with a buddy last night about how every hockey fan expects every player to be Mike Tyson and when they call them soft for things like not fightin, while they sit at home adding food yelling at their tv instead of their.. anywho. Relax guys, you're not ufc fighters.

 

[The Apologist]

Schenn even hinted at a response.

Nothing happened at all. Complete no-shows. It was embarrassing.

Was probably forwarned by the NHL.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

Apparently you are seeing a different video. We're discussing the Lafferty on Gudas hit. Slam means force is applied when the object comes into contact with the surface. An example of this is when Bennet slams Knies' head into the boards. The force from Bennet is hitting Knies' head as Knies' head hits the boards. This is very different from Lafferty, who only applies pressure to Gudas at the initial point of contact, pushing him away when Gudas is still standing and not up against any other surface.

Knies is 6'2" and 210 lbs. Bennet is 6'1" and 195 lbs. Being in the NHL longer doesn't really have anything to do with anything. Knies is factually the "bigger body".

Bennet didn't avoid the check though. That's why their legs were still colliding. Avoiding the check means avoiding the check, not half avoiding and creating a more dangerous collision. That's body checking 101. He failed at avoiding it, and only moved his upper body out of the way enough that he could sucker punch him in the face. Where did I get this stuff? From the video. Perhaps you didn't get the angle that shows it well, but it comes at the initial contact before the arm/stick fully wraps around his neck, his head gets body slammed into the boards, and he gets chokeslammed headfirst to the ice.

Nope...Lafferty SLAMS Gudas to the ice, debating this is useless, video speaks for itself

Just because you weigh more doesn't necessarily mean one is stronger, just the fact i have to point this out makes you look less credible. I never said bigger, i said Bennett is stronger and a veteran. Knies is 7 games in his career and still has to learn what strength is, and how to convert that big body at teh NHL level, he got manhandled (as per Nick Kypreos and NHL veteran....simple.

Bennett DID avoid the check, suggesting he didn't is delusional, now there is a half avoiding LOL...Knies didn'g get his chest/body, he ran into Bennetts arm and stick got wrapped around Knies, Bennett then bodies him to the boards, where he most likely smacked his head on the glass. There was NO SUCKER PUNCH, please show me this video that you think this happened, Knies misses Bennett, Knies face is in Bennetts arm, Bennett pushes Knies into the boards with his left arm on Knies shoulder, Knies put himself in a bad position with the missed hit, turning his boday around and his head slamming into the boards with the momentum of the check by Knies. The fact you think this is Bennetts fault when Knies initiated all of it, with his aqgressive missed body check....butu you keep coming with your desperate observation. Nick Kypreos and the NHL safety agreed with this assessment.

Now you probably believe Buntings suspension was a joke and Cernak shouldnt have run into Buntings elbow...right

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nope...Lafferty SLAMS Gudas to the ice, debating this is useless, video speaks for itself

Yes, the video does speak for itself. He does not slam Gudas into the ice. He pushes Gudas to the ice from the standing position.
And regardless of how you want to define it, what Bennet did was massively more dangerous. There is no comparison.

I never said bigger

That is not true. Here is your initial statement:

Knies didn't realize he was in a battle with a bigger body

You only switched to stronger after you were proven wrong, and you haven't brought any justification for why he would be stronger, or why that's relevant in the first place.
Strength doesn't really factor into sucker punching somebody in the face, slamming somebody's head into the boards, or chokeslamming somebody down by their neck.

Bennett DID avoid the check, suggesting he didn't is delusional, now there is a half avoiding LOL...Knies didn'g get his chest/body, he ran into Bennetts arm and stick got wrapped around Knies, Bennett then bodies him to the boards, where he most likely smacked his head on the glass.

If Bennet had avoided the check, Bennet would have avoided the check. We wouldn't be here talking. But he didn't avoid the check. They collided. What he avoided was the upper body of Knies, who was engaging with a safe, basic body check, and as a result, Bennet created a vastly more dangerous collision. He then made it even more dangerous by sticking his arm out, sucker punching Knies in the face, slamming his head into the boards, and then dragging him down headfirst into the ice by his neck.
Videos of the play are widely available on youtube if you'd like to reference it.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

Yes, the video does speak for itself. He does not slam Gudas into the ice. He pushes Gudas to the ice from the standing position.
And regardless of how you want to define it, what Bennet did was massively more dangerous. There is no comparison.

That is not true. Here is your initial statement:

You only switched to stronger after you were proven wrong, and you haven't brought any justification for why he would be stronger, or why that's relevant in the first place.
Strength doesn't really factor into sucker punching somebody in the face, slamming somebody's head into the boards, or chokeslamming somebody down by their neck.

If Bennet had avoided the check, Bennet would have avoided the check. We wouldn't be here talking. But he didn't avoid the check. They collided. What he avoided was the upper body of Knies, who was engaging with a safe, basic body check, and as a result, Bennet created a vastly more dangerous collision. He then made it even more dangerous by sticking his arm out, sucker punching Knies in the face, slamming his head into the boards, and then dragging him down headfirst into the ice by his neck.
Videos of the play are widely available on youtube if you'd like to reference it.

Ok you got me, i said bigger, not stronger, my impression is that Bennett is bigger and stronger, you realize that not all the stats on the NHL website are not always accurate. He sure gets tossed around easily being 6'3" 210 lbs, there is an obvious immaturity to his physical game, which is why he was manhandled by Bennett, smarter and stronger veteran NHL hockey player.... If Knies is wearing a Panthers jersey you are saying, 'welcome to the NHL playoffs little boy'.

If anything you have said is true then Bennett would have been suspended, this is your way of blaming everything on some other factor, that the LEAFS always get screwed and the league as against them.. Look, at the end of the day your analysis of the incident is tremendously exaggerated, SUCKER PUNCH, CHOKE SLAMMING, SLAMMING HEAD INTO THE BOARDS, if any of that, or even one was factually true, Bennett would have not played in Game 4..regardless, if you are putting all your hope on Mathew Knies, then we have a very serious problem with this Leafs team.

Please listen to Kyper on the Knies hit, and the Bunting cross check...then come back and tell me Kyper doesn't know what he is talking about. Don;t take it from me.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ok you got me, i said bigger, not stronger, my impression is that Bennett is bigger and stronger, you realize that not all the stats on the NHL website are not always accurate. He sure gets tossed around easily being 6'3" 210 lbs, there is an obvious immaturity to his physical game, which is why he was manhandled by Bennett, smarter and stronger veteran NHL hockey player....

He doesn't get tossed around at all. He's handled himself extremely well on the physical side, and brushed off checks from bigger players than Bennet, who everything suggests is smaller than Knies. Strength has nothing to do with the dirty play Bennet did anyway.

If anything you have said is true then Bennett would have been suspended

I think history strongly supports that that is not true. The NHL DOPS has no consistency or rationality in their decisions.

this is your way of blaming everything on some other factor

No, this is about objectively looking at what happened in a dangerous non-hockey play that injured a young rookie, that should have no place in this game. This is about putting the blame where it belongs, instead of victim blaming Knies for getting mugged.

regardless, if you are putting all your hope on Mathew Knies, then we have a very serious problem with this Leafs team.

You don't need to put all your hopes on just him to recognize the value and impact he could bring. Knies was a high-end prospect and was performing really well, providing valuable depth. The difference in both games he's missed has been a single goal, and he was making an impact in the series with a goal in the first game, so it's pretty ridiculous to suggest he couldn't be a factor that could tip the scales between success and failure. Even more-so if the dirty act that injured him was properly penalized and the player suspended.

 

[Canadian Finn]

I had a good laugh with a buddy last night about how every hockey fan expects every player to be Mike Tyson and when they call them soft for things like not fightin, while they sit at home adding food yelling at their tv instead of their.. anywho. Relax guys, you're not ufc fighters.

we are also not millionaire paid professionals.

seems silly to compare hockey player hockey fans.

gives me a good laugh honestly.

relax guy, you are a hockey fan, not a hockey player.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

He doesn't get tossed around at all. He's handled himself extremely well on the physical side, and brushed off checks from bigger players than Bennet, who everything suggests is smaller than Knies. Strength has nothing to do with the dirty play Bennet did anyway.

I think history strongly supports that that is not true. The NHL DOPS has no consistency or rationality in their decisions.

No, this is about objectively looking at what happened in a dangerous non-hockey play that injured a young rookie, that should have no place in this game. This is about putting the blame where it belongs, instead of victim blaming Knies for getting mugged.

You don't need to put all your hopes on just him to recognize the value and impact he could bring. Knies was a high-end prospect and was performing really well, providing valuable depth. The difference in both games he's missed has been a single goal, and he was making an impact in the series with a goal in the first game, so it's pretty ridiculous to suggest he couldn't be a factor that could tip the scales between success and failure. Even more-so if the dirty act that injured him was properly penalized and the player suspended.

Drown in your misery, typical delusional Leaf fan just talking out of your butt. Knies has literally been tossed around many times.
There is nothing the NHL DOPS should look at, if you want something then maybe just a 2 min call, but that is the most severe case here.

Calling it a dangerous NON hockey play just continues to prove your homerism here, you keep ignoring some of the meaningful facts i have made, and come back with wishful thoughts. I guess Lafferty take down on Gudas is a hockey play, Reilly on Point in Rd 1 is a hockey play, McCabe concussing a Tampa player with a shoulder check to the head is just hockey, but this is a NON hockey play...OK.

The fact you have double downed on his impact to this team and the hopes on a 20 yr old rookie as the reason we fail in the playoffs again is telling of what this Leafs team really is. If we can't make it without an unexpected 20 yr old rookie then that is just sad.

You haven't heard the comments i guess by Kyper, or you just ignoring it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Knies has literally been tossed around many times. There is nothing the NHL DOPS should look at, if you want something then maybe just a 2 min call, but that is the most severe case here.

No, Knies has not been "tossed around many times". He's handled the physicality of the NHL really well.
Yes, there was plenty for the DOPS to look at and take action on, but unfortunately, they're not actually looking out for player safety.
Yes, it should have obviously also been a penalty in-game, which could have been the difference in the game.

I guess Lafferty take down on Gudas is a hockey play, Reilly on Point in Rd 1 is a hockey play, McCabe concussing a Tampa player with a shoulder check to the head is just hockey, but this is a NON hockey play...OK.

Lafferty's hit was a hockey play. Lafferty's shove after the hit was not a hockey play.
McCabe's hit was a hockey play, and was widely acknowledged to be perfectly clean; meeting all of the criteria for a clean body check.
Rielly didn't do anything to Point. Point hit a rut, lost balance, and hit the boards awkwardly. But yes, that was part of a hockey play engaging on a puck in the corner.
Literally nothing about what Bennet did was a hockey play, and it was dangerous. Sucker punching somebody in the face is not a hockey play. Slamming somebody's head into the boards is not a hockey play. Pulling somebody down by the neck into the ice when the puck is nowhere close to you is not a hockey play.

The fact you have double downed on his impact to this team and the hopes on a 20 yr old rookie as the reason we fail in the playoffs again is telling of what this Leafs team really is. If we can't make it without an unexpected 20 yr old rookie then that is just sad.

He literally scored a goal in game 1, and had a point in each of his previous 3 games. He was controlling play, and provided valuable depth. Not sure why you're trying to pretend that he's worthless and has no impact, especially considering the tiny margins in the games he missed. Acknowledging his value doesn't mean putting everything on him.

You haven't heard the comments i guess by Kyper

I don't care what Kyper says. Nobody should.

 

[Menzinger]

Schenn even hinted at a response.

Nothing happened at all. Complete no-shows. It was embarrassing.

Can't risk an instigator call down two game. The league was probably watching like a hawk too

 

[Niagara Bill]

You can attribute incompetence and bias to NHL officials, but I feel that the NHL game is too fast for the current method of officiating to work competently. Off-ice officials should review all calls and non-calls. This may cause delays initially, but will improve the consistency of officiating; and we have seen that players adapt quickly to consistent officiating, and govern themselves. I feel, however, that the NHL is comfortable with the current method of officiating because game management is a higher priority (i.e., more profitable) than fairness and player safety.

Bennett actions were ignored not missed. Nothing fast about that action.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

No, Knies has not been "tossed around many times". He's handled the physicality of the NHL really well.
Yes, there was plenty for the DOPS to look at and take action on, but unfortunately, they're not actually looking out for player safety.
Yes, it should have obviously also been a penalty in-game, which could have been the difference in the game.

Lafferty's hit was a hockey play. Lafferty's shove after the hit was not a hockey play.
McCabe's hit was a hockey play, and was widely acknowledged to be perfectly clean; meeting all of the criteria for a clean body check.
Rielly didn't do anything to Point. Point hit a rut, lost balance, and hit the boards awkwardly. But yes, that was part of a hockey play engaging on a puck in the corner.
Literally nothing about what Bennet did was a hockey play, and it was dangerous. Sucker punching somebody in the face is not a hockey play. Slamming somebody's head into the boards is not a hockey play. Pulling somebody down by the neck into the ice when the puck is nowhere close to you is not a hockey play.

He literally scored a goal in game 1, and had a point in each of his previous 3 games. He was controlling play, and provided valuable depth. Not sure why you're trying to pretend that he's worthless and has no impact, especially considering the tiny margins in the games he missed. Acknowledging his value doesn't mean putting everything on him.

I don't care what Kyper says. Nobody should.

Yes he was tossed around!!!
No there was nothing for DOPS to review!
Lafferty's hit is NOT a hockey play, it;s a take down in wrestling!
Reilly pushed point into the boards!!
Bennett HAD THE PUCK, and Knies was manhandled!!!
There was no slamming or figure 4 locks, or suplexes!
Knies is NOT the saviour for this team, didn;t; say he hasn;t had impact, I'm saying he should not be the hope we need to win, this team should be able to win without a Knies....are you suggesting without Knies we are not good enough? Rhetorical question, don't answer.
Not caring what Kyper says is simply saying you are wrong!

Enjoy the rest of the games, done debating with a delusional Leaf fan!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes he was tossed around!!!
No there was nothing for DOPS to review!
Lafferty's hit is NOT a hockey play, it;s a take down in wrestling!
Reilly pushed point into the boards!!
Bennett HAD THE PUCK, and Knies was manhandled!!!
There was no slamming or figure 4 locks, or suplexes!
Knies is NOT the saviour for this team, didn;t; say he hasn;t had impact, I'm saying he should not be the hope we need to win, this team should be able to win without a Knies....are you suggesting without Knies we are not good enough? Rhetorical question, don't answer.
Not caring what Kyper says is simply saying you are wrong!

Knies has handled the physicality of the NHL really well. Getting injured on dirty cheap shots and head shots has nothing to do with physicality. There have been multiple things for the DOPS to review, even specifically from that one player in that one game. The Bennet-Knies interaction was certainly one of them, and as usual, they got the decision wrong.

Lafferty's hit is absolutely a hockey play. It's a safe, basic body check into the boards. The only inappropriate part of the Lafferty-Gudas interaction was Lafferty pushing Gudas afterward, but that's certainly not a "takedown in wrestling". Perhaps you got it confused with Bennet's actual wrestling takedown on Knies. RIelly doesn't push Point into the boards. They're both going back for the puck, they come together and engage like normal, but Point hits a rut, goes off balance, and his own momentum carries him into the boards. They literally tried to penalize Rielly, and it was so clean on review that they had to take it back and instead give him some fake penalty for... I guess bleeding from the face too much and having too many black eyes from having his face driven into the ice?

Bennet did have the puck. He then got rid of the puck, and committed multiple dirty, dangerous, illegal actions in quick succession, injuring Knies. There were no "figure 4 locks" or "suplexes", but there was a sucker punch to the face, a head slam into the boards, and a head driven to the ice by the neck. Knies is not the saviour of the team, but he is a really good player that was playing really well and providing valuable depth to the team. Losing a player like that hurts any team, and the Leafs pretty obviously were negatively impacted by losing Knies, especially after his goal in game 1 and given the tiny margins of victory in games 2 and 3.

Not caring what Kyper says is simply saying that I don't care what Kyper says. All of the facts and evidence are what prove me to be correct, not some guy on the internet who's job is to create entertainment, not to be correct.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

One word...DELUSIONAL!

In my opinion Reilly play was dirty, there was push just before Point fell, DOPS should have reviewed and suspended because an injury happened. So on one hand you approve of DOPS not suspending Reilly, but all of a sudden you disagree with them on the Knies hockey play behind the net.....IT WAS A HOCKEY PLAY, Knies was manhandled...simple. move on. The Lafferty hit is NOT a hockey play, you are so delusional it's actually disturbing.

You're right about everything, makes you happy. Live and die with your excuses and victim card, the league the world is against the Leafs, because we have been on the league the longest and we have the biggest fan base we deserve the Cup....keep at it.

The closest Leaf team to any playoff success was in '93, and we all blame the missed high stick call, ok, so we still had to score on the PP, we still had a chance to win in Game 7, and we still had to beat the Montreal Canadiens in the final, but yeah, Cary Fraser screwed us....keep living with that. Wes McCauley, Bettman, DOPS, any other excuses you want to add.

You win, Bennett is the reason we sucked in G3 and lost G1/2

 

[Dekes For Days]

In my opinion Reilly play was dirty, there was push just before Point fell, DOPS should have reviewed and suspended because an injury happened. So on one hand you approve of DOPS not suspending Reilly, but all of a sudden you disagree with them on the Knies hockey play behind the net.....IT WAS A HOCKEY PLAY, Knies was manhandled...simple. move on. The Lafferty hit is NOT a hockey play

Rielly's play was not dirty. He doesn't push Point. He goes to brace up against the other player going in, like every player does in that situation. There just ends up being nothing to brace against because Point is falling. But he fell on his own, not because of anything Rielly did, and its his own momentum putting him into the boards. Unlike the Bennet actions, there's nothing to suspend there.

Of course I'd suspend the Bennet actions and not the Rielly one. They're not remotely similar to each other, and only the Bennet one is against the rules and worthy of suspension. Bennet intentionally injured Knies on a non-hockey play; sucker punching him, smashing his head into the boards, and pulling him down to the ice by the neck, with the puck long gone. Rielly was just in the area when Point tripped on his own and fell awkwardly into the boards during a hockey play, while engaging the puck in the corner.

As for the Lafferty-Gudas interaction, there's literally nothing improper about the hit. The only thing that could be remotely considered against the rules is the push afterward - which I've already acknowledged was unnecessary and not a hockey play. They're literally engaging on the puck, and Lafferty hits Gudas in the safest possible way for that situation. I'm not exactly sure what part of a basic hit at the puck you think isn't a hockey play.

You're right about everything, makes you happy. Live and die with your excuses and victim card, the league the world is against the Leafs, because we have been on the league the longest and we have the biggest fan base we deserve the Cup....keep at it.

The closest Leaf team to any playoff success was in '93, and we all blame the missed high stick call, ok, so we still had to score on the PP, we still had a chance to win in Game 7, and we still had to beat the Montreal Canadiens in the final, but yeah, Cary Fraser screwed us....keep living with that. Wes McCauley, Bettman, DOPS, any other excuses you want to add.

You win, Bennett is the reason we sucked in G3 and lost G1/2

Nobody has said anything close to any of this. This is all strawmen.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

Reilly does in fact extend his shoulder/arm into Point causing Point to lose his balance. Yes that's a hockey play all day long, but there are 3 factors that should have at least been a boarding penalty, 1.player is in a vulnerable position, 2. player is 3 ft from the boards 3. player was injured. it's the responsibility of the players to not injure a player in a vulnerable position, if Reilly doesn't extend his shoulder arm, he could have easily just rid him into the boards, is what happens 9/10 times. That's the rule by the book.

I completely disagree on your view on the Bennett incident as it's exaggerated....move on.

 

[Da Mash]

The NHL playoffs have different rules then regular season games.

No other big sport does that.

Then every yr we see it over and over again with interference and crosschecks and hooking and grabbing and it’s the same ole excuse….it’s playoff hockey.

promote the goons….that’s why you see big slow tough cheap shot defenceman get overpaid at trade deadline

Would be nice to have consistent officiating throughout the year. But we have been brainwashed in thinking playoff hockey should be about goonery.

If so…make it a all yr standard. We can have bench clearing brawls and players in stands fighting and we can add more armour…like sharpen the hard plastic elbow pads….put spikes on our shoulder pads like the WWF Road warriors

 

[Dekes For Days]

Reilly does in fact extend his shoulder/arm into Point causing Point to lose his balance.

That is not true. Point falls all on his own, before Rielly's arms move at all. We can see that here:

Rielly's arms are in, and Point loses his balance, and his back skate goes vertical. The only partial extension of the arms is post-fall when Point, off balance, stops pushing back on Rielly and the bracing force is released. Rielly didn't do anything wrong here, and Point was literally back the next shift.

I completely disagree on your view on the Bennett incident as it's exaggerated...

There's nothing exaggerated about the way I've described what Bennet did. His acts were dirty, dangerous, unnecessary non-hockey actions, and it resulted in injury.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

That is not true. Point falls all on his own, before Rielly's arms move at all. We can see that here:
View attachment 706049
Rielly's arms are in, and Point loses his balance, and his back skate goes vertical. The only partial extension of the arms is post-fall when Point, off balance, stops pushing back on Rielly and the bracing force is released. Rielly didn't do anything wrong here, and Point was literally back the next shift.

There's nothing exaggerated about the way I've described what Bennet did. His acts were dirty, dangerous, unnecessary non-hockey actions, and it resulted in injury.

LOL...taking a still shot to prove your argument.....show the clip a half sec later to show his arm extend from his body. It's clear you see only what you want to see because you are delusional.

I'm sure we would be 'just a hockey play' if that was Sergachev on Marner....yup!!!

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I completely disagree on your view on the Bennett incident as it's exaggerated....move on.

right back at you.

please move on.

try the mainboards ?

 

[thewave]

Interested to see if anybody powers up there elbows for this one.

 

[Dekes For Days]

LOL...taking a still shot to prove your argument.....show the clip a half sec later to show his arm extend from his body.

Rielly's arm moves outward after (and even then, barely) because Point is already falling and that's what happens when you have two individuals pushing on each other and then one suddenly stops. Rielly's force is going to continue forward for a moment with nothing pushing back against it. Go try it with a friend. Push off against each other and then have your friend suddenly back away without notice. Watch what happens to your arms.

The image shows that Point is already falling awkwardly before Rielly has any movement at all. Rielly did not cause the fall, or really do anything except brace himself, and Point was back the next shift. Quite frankly, Rielly ended up more injured from that occurrence than Point, because of goonery in that series that was also improperly penalized.