Confirmed with Link: Flyers Great Ryan Johansen Placed On Waivers For Purpose Of Terminating Contract Due To "Material Breach" (NHLPA Files Grievance 9/26)

[deadhead]

Are you perchance a baseball fan? Because we're going on 35 years of people insisting teams won't want to get involved with Scott Boras clients and it having no meaningful impact on his clients getting paid.

Teams pay for talent. Always have, always will. They may prefer dealing with some agents to others. That's not a player's problem.

If Buium fell because of that, it cost him zero dollars. He's locked into an ELC.

I don't buy they skipped Buium b/c of his agent, nor b/c of his size (he's 6'0 and probably 200 lbs when he hits the NHL). I think they probably saw his ceiling in the NHL as a 2nd pair/PP1 QB, a good but not elite player - time will tell us if they (and the other teams that passed) were right.

In the same way, I think Gauthier didn't stiff the Flyers b/c of Torts or some other imaginary reasons, he and the team wanted him to play center, and he needed that second year of college if that was his goal (more lucrative position). My suspicion is he had the leverage to do a "Fox" and took advantage of it to get traded to the West Coast (he's from Arizona).

People love conspiracy theories, but often the truth is not that complicated.

 

[thedjpd]

If Nashville knew that they had 2.7M in extra cap space, they wouldn’t have had to send draft choices to Pittsburgh to clear cap space

If Nashville knew that they had 2.7M in additional cap space they wouldn’t have shipped Cody Glass and two draft choices in order to get room. RyJo’s fooling around affects Nashville, Colorado and the Flyers.

Also, as mentioned on the PHLY podcast today, the Flyers can't do this on their own. Everybody bashes the NHL for being so conservative, but they cannot place him on unconditional waivers for the purposes of a termination without running it by the NHL (and presumably the Predators, as well, but this part maybe not) since this will become an NHL vs NHLPA issue, not a Flyers vs Johannsen issue. That's to say, the NHL must have agreed that the Flyers have enough for this course of action - for a group that wants to avoid any spotlight whatsoever, that's quite alarming.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I don't buy they skipped Buium b/c of his agent, nor b/c of his size (he's 6'0 and probably 200 lbs when he hits the NHL). I think they probably saw his ceiling in the NHL as a 2nd pair/PP1 QB, a good but not elite player - time will tell us if they (and the other teams that passed) were right.

In the same way, I think Gauthier didn't stiff the Flyers b/c of Torts or some other imaginary reasons, he and the team wanted him to play center, and he needed that second year of college if that was his goal (more lucrative position). My suspicion is he had the leverage to do a "Fox" and took advantage of it to get traded to the West Coast (he's from Arizona).

People love conspiracy theories, but often the truth is not that complicated.

I agree with most of this, but the GM literally said on the record that it's tough to stack Defensemen without size in direct response to a Buium question. That one doesn't require a conspiracy!

Again, full credit to Charlie for asking a great question.

 

[thedjpd]

I don't buy they skipped Buium b/c of his agent, nor b/c of his size (he's 6'0 and probably 200 lbs when he hits the NHL). I think they probably saw his ceiling in the NHL as a 2nd pair/PP1 QB, a good but not elite player - time will tell us if they (and the other teams that passed) were right.

In the same way, I think Gauthier didn't stiff the Flyers b/c of Torts or some other imaginary reasons, he and the team wanted him to play center, and he needed that second year of college if that was his goal (more lucrative position). My suspicion is he had the leverage to do a "Fox" and took advantage of it to get traded to the West Coast (he's from Arizona).

People love conspiracy theories, but often the truth is not that complicated.

I don't think it's a conspiracy theory to infer that they didn't want to deal with a piece of crap agent who they just had a huge battle with over the prior 18 months.

It could be possible they didn't view Buium that highly; but just saying it's not a reach to say that the agent had 0 role in it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Funny how differently the Flyers treated a guy who was honest and forthright with them about his injuries, as opposed to a guy who had reported no injuries whatsoever, but suddenly sprained his ego when they decided to send him to the AHL.

Maybe if Briere hadn't publicly assured everyone that Johansen would never touch the NHL for the Flyers, he'd have also acted better.

 

[thedjpd]

I agree with most of this, but the GM literally said on the record that it's tough to stack Defensemen without size in direct response to a Buium question. That one doesn't require a conspiracy!

Again, full credit to Charlie for asking a great question.

+1 to this as well. It may well be that simple (and stupid), but we don't know all the information hence it's hard to deduce what the actual reason is.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Are you perchance a baseball fan? Because we're going on 35 years of people insisting teams won't want to get involved with Scott Boras clients and it having no meaningful impact on his clients getting paid.

Teams pay for talent. Always have, always will. They may prefer dealing with some agents to others. That's not a player's problem.

If Buium fell because of that, it cost him zero dollars. He's locked into an ELC.

It’s like hiring Allan Walsh as your agent. Do you think these guys that seek his services are totally oblivious to that fact he likes to get on twitter & run his mouth all the time about whatever current issue is troubling him &/or his client?

Like no they willingly seek his services out because they like it & ultimately agree with it. These guys work for the players not that other way around. They can’t just stake claim in you like teams can, you willingly seek these guys out.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Remove the feud vs the agent…. But… Basically the Flyers are doing this to avoid going into LTIR, right?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I don't buy they skipped Buium b/c of his agent, nor b/c of his size (he's 6'0 and probably 200 lbs when he hits the NHL). I think they probably saw his ceiling in the NHL as a 2nd pair/PP1 QB, a good but not elite player - time will tell us if they (and the other teams that passed) were right.

In the same way, I think Gauthier didn't stiff the Flyers b/c of Torts or some other imaginary reasons, he and the team wanted him to play center, and he needed that second year of college if that was his goal (more lucrative position). My suspicion is he had the leverage to do a "Fox" and took advantage of it to get traded to the West Coast (he's from Arizona).

People love conspiracy theories, but often the truth is not that complicated.

So you don’t buy the size thing despite Briere himself saying it was a big factor?

When they tell you who they are…believe them.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Discussions like these are why players like certain agents like this. These agents aren’t worried about ruffling feathers & ultimately the agent takes most of if not all the public shrapnel while the player more so sits to the background not taking as much despite being the one who gave approval.

 

[ponder719]

Remove the feud vs the agent…. But… Basically the Flyers are doing this to avoid going into LTIR, right?

They're in LTIR anyway because of Ellis, AFAICT.

 

[freakydallas13]

If Nashville knew that they had 2.7M in extra cap space, they wouldn’t have had to send draft choices to Pittsburgh to clear cap space

If Nashville knew that they had 2.7M in additional cap space they wouldn’t have shipped Cody Glass and two draft choices in order to get room. RyJo’s fooling around affects Nashville, Colorado and the Flyers.

That doesn't change the fact that it's the Flyers going after RJ, not the Avalanche or Preds. No players are going to look at the story as we know it and think "Nashville is really screwing RJ here", but the potential is sure there for players to think that about the Flyers.

 

[thedjpd]

So you don’t buy the size thing despite Briere himself saying it was a big factor?

When they tell you who they are…believe them.

Yeah, don't agree with this at all. We know very well they lie through their teeth. All GMs do. Just because Briere said it doesn't mean it's true, and it's always felt flimsy.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Yeah, don't agree with this at all. We know very well they lie through their teeth. All GMs do. Just because Briere said it doesn't mean it's true, and it's always felt flimsy.

Their actions match their words. They have for years.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I don't buy they skipped Buium b/c of his agent, nor b/c of his size (he's 6'0 and probably 200 lbs when he hits the NHL). I think they probably saw his ceiling in the NHL as a 2nd pair/PP1 QB, a good but not elite player - time will tell us if they (and the other teams that passed) were right.

In the same way, I think Gauthier didn't stiff the Flyers b/c of Torts or some other imaginary reasons, he and the team wanted him to play center, and he needed that second year of college if that was his goal (more lucrative position). My suspicion is he had the leverage to do a "Fox" and took advantage of it to get traded to the West Coast (he's from Arizona).

People love conspiracy theories, but often the truth is not that complicated.

That they do.

Truth is they choose not to sign him when his freshman season was over. That was a mistake, and they messed up big time. It is 100% their fault.

 

[deadhead]

So you don’t buy the size thing despite Briere himself saying it was a big factor?

When they tell you who they are…believe them.

6'0 200 isn't "small." Especially for an offense first D-man. So I'm a bit skeptical.
Plus Briere has Risto, Seeler, Attard, Ginning and drafted Bonk, McDonald, Sotheran, Mills.
So it's not like they're desperate to add big D-men.

Don't think the agent matters, other than on the margin, players get an ELC in any case, and five years down the road, who knows who the player's agent will be.

I think they really like Luchanko, they could have played it safe with Helenius if it was just about taking a center. Briere values speed, IQ, work ethic, etc. - Luchanko has all those intangibles.

Remains to be seen if he has enough offensive skill to be a 1C.

They're in LTIR anyway because of Ellis, AFAICT.

No. They didn't put Ellis on LTIR last season.

 

[Redpath]

6'0 200 isn't "small." Especially for an offense first D-man. So I'm a bit skeptical.
Plus Briere has Risto, Seeler, Attard, Ginning and drafted Bonk, McDonald, Sotheran, Mills.
So it's not like they're desperate to add big D-men.

Don't think the agent matters, other than on the margin, players get an ELC in any case, and five years down the road, who knows who the player's agent will be.

I think they really like Luchanko, they could have played it safe with Helenius if it was just about taking a center. Briere values speed, IQ, work ethic, etc. - Luchanko has all those intangibles.

Remains to be seen if he has enough offensive skill to be a 1C.


No. They didn't put Ellis on LTIR last season.

Well, when you look at our defense, you have it right. I think Zeev Buium is gonna be a great player, and he's someone we considered strongly. But with Cam York, Jamie Drysdale, Emil Andrae – at some point, it gets tough to go with the smaller guy. But he’s a fantastic player.

If 6'0 Cam York is lumped into the "smaller guy" category, then so would 6'0 Buium

 

[Beef Invictus]

Their actions match their words. They have for years.

They have this especially strange habit of acquiring smaller players and then whining about how they don't play "big." And obsessing over them getting bigger.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Listening a bit while driving

Briere mentioned on the Knuckles podcast how it’s good for Matvei to have a quality coach like Michkov who can get the “kinks out of his game”

For a team that finds/develops actual stars as likely as myself having a threesome, I’m skeptical.

 

[deadhead]

Giroux is a good example of a top offensive player who learned to play defense, not at a Selke level, but good enough that you could have him on the ice in all situations.

If Michkov is as competitive as advertised, and given players aren't coddled in the KHL, I don't think he'll have any problem with Torts. Torts gives his top offensive players the green light to make plays, he just demands they are fundamentally sound on defense (though he cuts TK a lot of slack).

 

[ponder719]

No. They didn't put Ellis on LTIR last season.

I didn't say last year.

Philadelphia Flyers | Salary cap and contracts

This sure as hell suggests we need to figure something out, whether it's LTIR for Ellis, getting rid of Johansen, or something similar. Maybe the solution is to send down players who by rights ought to be here, but we're not under the cap at the moment.

 

[deadhead]

Well, when you look at our defense, you have it right. I think Zeev Buium is gonna be a great player, and he's someone we considered strongly. But with Cam York, Jamie Drysdale, Emil Andrae – at some point, it gets tough to go with the smaller guy. But he’s a fantastic player.

If 6'0 Cam York is lumped into the "smaller guy" category, then so would 6'0 Buium

There's a hype component here, if they thought Buium was a "fantastic player" they would have rushed up to take him. But Buium is not Makar. Of course, if he was 6'3 220 with the same skill set he'd been drafted in the top 3. But he's not.

I think Briere was deflecting a bit, more like "we like his skill set, great vision but he's got average size, average skater, but we don't see him as a sure fire 1st pair guy." But being that honest probably wouldn't have been worth the flak generated.

I'm sure LHD was on their priority list (given York, Andrae, McDonald, Ginning), if they thought Buium was a slam dunk, they'd have taken him.

I suspect it came down to Buium, Helenius and Luchanko and they thought Luchanko had the most upside (and downside) - Briere has said he's going to gamble on upside.

 

[Beef Invictus]

There's a hype component here, if they thought Buium was a "fantastic player" they would have rushed up to take him. But Buium is not Makar. Of course, if he was 6'3 220 with the same skill set he'd been drafted in the top 3. But he's not.

I think Briere was deflecting a bit, more like "we like his skill set, great vision but he's got average size, average skater, but we don't see him as a sure fire 1st pair guy." But being that honest probably wouldn't have been worth the flak generated.

I'm sure LHD was on their priority list (given York, Andrae, McDonald, Ginning), if they thought Buium was a slam dunk, they'd have taken him.

I suspect it came down to Buium, Helenius and Luchanko and they thought Luchanko had the most upside (and downside) - Briere has said he's going to gamble on upside.

They weren't planning on taking the most fantastic player, they were planning on taking the fittiest player.

Drafting for perceived need and not BPA, which is especially a folly considering everything but RW is an urgent need.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

The Flyers doctors did not examine him before the trade was made. Colorado did not tell the Flyers he was injured. Colorado played him in a game two days before the trade.

Forgive me for sounding dense, but that isn’t the typical thing to do is it? Aren’t most trades and signings contingent on a physical?

Something is clearly rotten here. I’m still unclear of who to point the finger at. But my thesis continues to be that the flyers haven’t really done enough to warrant the benefit of the doubt.

 

[freakydallas13]

There's a hype component here, if they thought Buium was a "fantastic player" they would have rushed up to take him. But Buium is not Makar. Of course, if he was 6'3 220 with the same skill set he'd been drafted in the top 3. But he's not.

I think Briere was deflecting a bit, more like "we like his skill set, great vision but he's got average size, average skater, but we don't see him as a sure fire 1st pair guy." But being that honest probably wouldn't have been worth the flak generated.

I'm sure LHD was on their priority list (given York, Andrae, McDonald, Ginning), if they thought Buium was a slam dunk, they'd have taken him.

I suspect it came down to Buium, Helenius and Luchanko and they thought Luchanko had the most upside (and downside) - Briere has said he's going to gamble on upside.

Briere could have just said they liked Luchanko more than Buium, it's obviously true.

But Briere went out of his way to say the reason was size. No one asked him if size was the reason he passed on Buium, he said it was the reason when given carte blanche to give any reason he wanted.