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Flyers' 2017-18 roster discussion, part 6

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It'll be interesting if the PP becomes more mobile, I thought they were kinda static, Simmonds to the crease, Giroux setting up on the left side, too predictable against aggressive PKs.
 
I think whatever unit has Giroux would be better... the whole PP runs through him and we've seen that if a team can make him struggle on the PP (by playing him aggressively or if he's just having a bad game) then the rest aren't able to compensate.

Ghost is great, but I don't have much faith in the other 3 when it comes to making good decisions with the puck.

Obviously they're not changing up the top unit, but Giroux with Provorov, Konecny, Patrick/Hischier, and Filppula wouldn't be bad at all.
 
Striiker said:
I think whatever unit has Giroux would be better... the whole PP runs through him and we've seen that if a team can make him struggle on the PP (by playing him aggressively or if he's just having a bad game) then the rest aren't able to compensate.

Ghost is great, but I don't have much faith in the other 3 when it comes to making good decisions with the puck.

Obviously they're not changing up the top unit, but Giroux with Provorov, Konecny, Patrick/Hischier, and Filppula wouldn't be bad at all.
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While G is monster in dishing the puck, Simmer is monster in net front play, Jake at zone entries, Ghost in keeping the puck in the zone and Schenn scored every way imaginable, plus he had a nice little play set up with G at gaining the zone when everyone would focus on Jake and forget about him. That's why whole top unit is in top30 in PP scoring and I don't think anyone is riding the cotails.
 
MacDonald4MVP said:
While G is monster in dishing the puck, Simmer is monster in net front play, Jake at zone entries, Ghost in keeping the puck in the zone and Schenn scored every way imaginable, plus he had a nice little play set up with G at gaining the zone when everyone would focus on Jake and forget about him. That's why whole top unit is in top30 in PP scoring and I don't think anyone is riding the cotails.
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I agree. Giroux's still a great PP player, but on the PP even the best player is only as good as his support. It's not a one man unit when he only has 5 PP goals.
 
MacDonald4MVP said:
While G is monster in dishing the puck, Simmer is monster in net front play, Jake at zone entries, Ghost in keeping the puck in the zone and Schenn scored every way imaginable, plus he had a nice little play set up with G at gaining the zone when everyone would focus on Jake and forget about him. That's why whole top unit is in top30 in PP scoring and I don't think anyone is riding the cotails.
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Voracek's good at getting the puck into the zone but then past that he's unreliable. Ghost is great, like I said, but he needs someone to set him up. Schenn and Simmonds can score, but how often do they do that without the puck coming from Giroux in some way or another. His passing and decision making makes a massive difference when it comes to creating space for the other guys on the ice. They each have their role, and Im not saying the units success is 100% on Giroux, but I'd say any of the others could be more easily replaced. I wouldn't say merely riding coattails, but each of them have their job made much easier by having him run the power play.
 
Striiker said:
Voracek's good at getting the puck into the zone but then past that he's unreliable. Ghost is great, like I said, but he needs someone to set him up. Schenn and Simmonds can score, but how often do they do that without the puck coming from Giroux in some way or another. His passing and decision making makes a massive difference when it comes to creating space for the other guys on the ice. They each have their role, and Im not saying the units success is 100% on Giroux, but I'd say any of the others could be more easily replaced. I wouldn't say merely riding coattails, but each of them have their job made much easier by having him run the power play.
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We all know G is by far the best and most difficult one to replace on PP, however all of the top unit players have pretty sweet skillset. People ******** on ghost and voras are gonna eat their words big time next year and it's not even worth debating.
 
LorneMalvo said:
I agree. Giroux's still a great PP player, but on the PP even the best player is only as good as his support. It's not a one man unit when he only has 5 PP goals.
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Konecny led our #2 unit in PP points....with 5. Next best was Couts and Weise with 2.

I am willing to bet that just changing Giroux and Konecny brings those 2 PP units closer together. Giroux is the straw that stirs the drink. He is the QB. Has nothing to do with his goals. The other 4 guys thank their lucky stars they have Giroux on their PP.

In the end, it's our 2nd unit that I hope he fixes. To put it into perspective:

Couturier was 6th in PP points for forwards on the Flyers with 2.
N. Kadri was 6th in PP points fir forwards on the Leafs....with 15.

Obviously the entire Leafs 2nd unit was able to produce, ours did not.

Hell, Brian Boyle had as many PP points as Konecny. Has nothing to do with individual talent at times. It's set up, plays, schemes, having guys in right spots, etc...
 
http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/a...play-can-be-with-pretty-passing-play-for-goal

Just watch how SJ moves the puck around.....and more importantly....how all the players move around on the replay. High to low, into the slot then out, just constant movement.

Our move is get the puck to Giroux...Scheen moves up or down 2 feet. Jake to touch his ass to the far boards. Giroux move up and down the boards to create an open lane. Oops, missed pass, ring the puck around the boards to Giroux. Rinse and repeat.
 
Boyle plays in front of the net. You don't really need a great player for that role. You can plug a big body with decent hands in there & get production out them if the guys on the perimeter are worth their salt.
 
Tripod said:
Konecny led our #2 unit in PP points....with 5. Next best was Couts and Weise with 2.

I am willing to bet that just changing Giroux and Konecny brings those 2 PP units closer together. Giroux is the straw that stirs the drink. He is the QB. Has nothing to do with his goals. The other 4 guys thank their lucky stars they have Giroux on their PP.

In the end, it's our 2nd unit that I hope he fixes. To put it into perspective:

Couturier was 6th in PP points for forwards on the Flyers with 2.
N. Kadri was 6th in PP points fir forwards on the Leafs....with 15.

Obviously the entire Leafs 2nd unit was able to produce, ours did not.

Hell, Brian Boyle had as many PP points as Konecny. Has nothing to do with individual talent at times. It's set up, plays, schemes, having guys in right spots, etc...
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The leafs 2nd unit had Mitch Marner
 
Voracek thinking he's a one time threat from the right half board is the problem with pp1, teams don't even cover the guy and he still can't make anyone pay.

Moving Giroux to the right side and adding Hischier to the left side like Torontos PP1 with Nylander/Matthews would fix a lot of problems in my opinion.
 
NatP4 said:
Voracek thinking he's a one time threat from the right half board is the problem with pp1, teams don't even cover the guy and he still can't make anyone pay.

Moving Giroux to the right side and adding Hischier to the left side like Torontos PP1 with Nylander/Matthews would fix a lot of problems in my opinion.
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Hischier is really good in the "Voracek spot" of the PP.

We don't even know what our PP will look like though next season. Should be interesting. It needs more puck and body movement though, that's for sure.
 
LegionOfDoom91 said:
Boyle plays in front of the net. You don't really need a great player for that role. You can plug a big body with decent hands in there & get production out them if the guys on the perimeter are worth their salt.
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Yet we had Provy, Konecny, Couts, Weal, Flip, MDZ in those perimeter spots and could not produce. As I said, bad system, setup, players out of place, etc...are important. Sometimes it's not about individual talent.
 
Giroux moving from his spot is the LAST thing I would do.

We all know having a better shooter in Jakes spot would create more scoring chances. He just is not a threat to score on the PP. His points come from writing it and creating rebounds or ringing the puck around the boards to Giroux.

But really, we need to see who we get at #2 because with one being a lefty, the other right, it possibly changes things for both units.
 
Tripod said:
Yet we had Provy, Konecny, Couts, Weal, Flip, MDZ in those perimeter spots and could not produce. As I said, bad system, setup, players out of place, etc...are important. Sometimes it's not about individual talent.
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Weal & Filppula were barely here to count there. Provorov & Konecny were rookies. Couturier & Del Zotto both aren't really anything to write him about on the PP & that's been like that for a while now.

Coaching didn't help & they shouldn't have gone backwards this year based off the previous year but there still is/was an issue with personnel too. Hopefully that changes next year if Patrick/Hischier, Lindblom, Sanheim, etc. are added in addition with new coaching.
 
I think teams adjusted to the PP, as well as hounding Giroux when they saw he was a "wounded wildebeast." A healthy Giroux will help, but the PP has to be changed to adjust to the more aggressive PKs we saw the second half.
 
I'll probably laugh myself to death if Weal got a big head and thinks he's worth more than whatever Hextall is offering.
 
I don't really think money or term will be the issue. I think if Weal doesn't sign it's more so he had a better opportunity to fit in elsewhere.

I expect him to sign though sometime after the expansion draft & before July 1st.
 
I think the PP got away from using the Jake to Simmonds pass as much.

Ghost likes to work it too much to G at times

If they use that more, it should open it up a little more imo
 
Hextall probably already has a deal "done" or close enough to it and they are just waiting until after the expansion draft to finalize it. I think a one or two year deal in the 1.0-1.5 million range is what we are looking at. I don't think giving Bellemare 1.4 million helps Hextall's leverage a whole lot with Weal's agent.
 
I'd be fine overpaying Weal on a 1 year "prove it" deal. 1 year, $2 million.
 
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