Proposal: Florida-Philly

[tade]

No way. I would not trade Provorov for Trocheck AND Huberdeau, let alone add Rubtsov.

 

[Beezeral]

No way. I would not trade Provorov for Trocheck AND Huberdeau, let alone add Rubtsov.

there's one in every trade thread

 

[Rebels57]

Both Florida and Philly pass

Provorov could be the best player in the deal when all is said and done but the Panthers are starting to contend right now, not 2-3 years from now.

Also, Philly has been searching for a 1D since Pronger, they aren't going to trade a guy that could anchor their blueline for a winger and a center when they already have Giroux, Couturier, Voracek, Schenn, Simmonds, and Konecny for their future top 6

Do people even think before posting trade prosposals, or just throw **** at the wall?

 

[Rebels57]

there's one in every trade thread

If Provorov reaches his ceiling, elite 1D, then he is worth more than Huberdeau and Trochek; so I understand tade's logic.

 

[Starat327]

there's one in every trade thread

Trading something that potentially fills a dire need for pieces that aren't as dire. It has nothing to do with value, and everything to do with team needs. Once we made this trade, we'd have to then immediately trade one, or both of, the pieces for D help.

Bad deal for both sides, for different reasons.

 

[MintyFresh88]

Not sure how this made it past Page 1.

 

[Rebels57]

Not sure how this made it past Page 1.

It should probably be closed

 

[whitstifier]

there's one in every trade thread

Hmm, team context makes it arguable. I'd agree that Huberdeau and Trocheck will probably provide more on ice value than Provorov alone. However, the contracts of the two, NHL D depth and cap situation of the Flyers complicate a possible trade. Huberdeau and Trocheck may account for ~$11mm in cap hit after next season. Gostisbehere is due for a healthy raise, so the Flyers can't really afford to add salary commitments. They need cheap, young talent, especially on the blue line. As for the Panthers, why in the hell would they trade some of their best forwards? Both teams have reason to decline. It's not a no-brainer based on cursory consideration of on ice value.

 

[Beezeral]

If Provorov reaches his ceiling, elite 1D, then he is worth more than Huberdeau and Trochek; so I understand tade's logic.

IF. IF's are a big thing, especially when the return is a current 1st line winger and a current #2 center. NHL history is littered with guys with #1 D potential who never come close to meeting expectations. Not saying provorov does or doesn't reach #1 status, but in a vacuum, the OP heavily favors the flyers nevermind removing one of the pieces going to florida.

Hmm, team context makes it arguable. I'd agree that Huberdeau and Trocheck will probably provide more on ice value than Provorov alone. However, the contracts of the two, NHL D depth and cap situation of the Flyers complicate a possible trade. Huberdeau and Trocheck may account for ~$11mm in cap hit after next season. Gostisbehere is due for a healthy raise, so the Flyers can't really afford to add salary commitments. They need cheap, young talent, especially on the blue line. As for the Panthers, why in the hell would they trade some of their best forwards? Both teams have reason to decline. It's not a no-brainer based on cursory consideration of on ice value.

I completely agree with you that the trade makes no sense for the flyers for the reasons you stated, but that isn't what the person I responded to was saying. It was pretty apparent he thinks provorov alone has more value than huberdeau and trocheck

 

[whitstifier]

IF. IF's are a big thing, especially when the return is a current 1st line winger and a current #2 center. NHL history is littered with guys with #1 D potential who never come close to meeting expectations. Not saying provorov does or doesn't reach #1 status, but in a vacuum, the OP heavily favors the flyers nevermind removing one of the pieces going to florida.



I completely agree with you that the trade makes no sense for the flyers for the reasons you stated, but that isn't what the person I responded to was saying. It was pretty apparent he thinks provorov alone has more value than huberdeau and trocheck

As I said, it's arguable that Provorov does have more value. He's a fairly safe prospect with a high floor; I'd be somewhat surprised if he weren't at least a 4D. Cost control and top pairing upside make Provorov a pretty valuable player.

 

[Beezeral]

As I said, it's arguable that Provorov does have more value. He's a fairly safe prospect with a high floor; I'd be somewhat surprised if he weren't at least a 4D. Cost control and top pairing upside make Provorov a pretty valuable player.

I never said he wasn't a valuable player. But you have to admit that right now, it is crazy to say a prospect with a high ceiling is worth more than two under 24 players who have established themselves as a first line winger and a 2nd line center respectively.

 

[tade]

IF. IF's are a big thing, especially when the return is a current 1st line winger and a current #2 center. NHL history is littered with guys with #1 D potential who never come close to meeting expectations. Not saying provorov does or doesn't reach #1 status, but in a vacuum, the OP heavily favors the flyers nevermind removing one of the pieces going to florida.



I completely agree with you that the trade makes no sense for the flyers for the reasons you stated, but that isn't what the person I responded to was saying. It was pretty apparent he thinks provorov alone has more value than huberdeau and trocheck

I will gladly take that 'IF' when it comes to Provorov. Objectively speaking and right now... Trocheck and Huberdeau are more valuable pieces than Provorov, they are both top 6 NHLers, of course, so there's that... Great young players on the NHL level.

But just like the majority of Flyers fans, I have huge expectations in Provorov. He's more valuable asset for us, for the Flyers, that's what I meant, we need him more than Trocheck and Huberdeau. It's about team needs, I was talking from the Flyers standpoint, and there is too big potential in Provorov, can't pass on that.

Bad trade for both teams.

 

[whitstifier]

I never said he wasn't a valuable player. But you have to admit that right now, it is crazy to say a prospect with a high ceiling is worth more than two under 24 players who have established themselves as a first line winger and a 2nd line center respectively.

I don't think it's that crazy. You seem to neglect that Provorov has a high floor as well. Provorov has a realistic chance of being a second pairing D next season, and lesser chance of being a first pairing D beyond that. Consider also that his cap hit is less than $1MM in the short term. Unfortunately, surplus value is a huge part of business in general, which includes pro sports. I would prefer that all workers and players were paid fairly. Huberdeau and Trocheck at ~$11MM is closer to fair value than Provorov at $1MM. The surplus value that Provorov would provide arguably makes him a more valuable player.

 

[Beezeral]

I don't think it's that crazy. You seem to neglect that Provorov has a high floor as well. Provorov has a realistic chance of being a second pairing D next season, and lesser chance of being a first pairing D beyond that. Consider also that his cap hit is less than $1MM in the short term. Unfortunately, surplus value is a huge part of business in general, which includes pro sports. I would prefer that all workers and players were paid fairly. Huberdeau and Trocheck at ~$11MM is closer to fair value than Provorov at $1MM. The surplus value that Provorov would provide arguably makes him a more valuable player.

11 mm for a 1st line winger and 2nd line center is great value. Provorov is a great prospect, but he hasn't proven anything yet. His ELC only becomes a true bargain once he performs at the NHL level. Again, not taking anything away from Provorov as a prospect, but even you are using qualifiers when discussing his future. Words like "chance" mean he may or may not live up to your high expectations. You know what you are getting with Huberdeau and Trocheck. Even if you add in contract status into the equation, this proposed trade heavily favors the flyers.

I will gladly take that 'IF' when it comes to Provorov. Objectively speaking and right now... Trocheck and Huberdeau are more valuable pieces than Provorov, they are both top 6 NHLers, of course, so there's that... Great young players on the NHL level.

But just like the majority of Flyers fans, I have huge expectations in Provorov. He's more valuable asset for us, for the Flyers, that's what I meant, we need him more than Trocheck and Huberdeau. It's about team needs, I was talking from the Flyers standpoint, and there is too big potential in Provorov, can't pass on that.

Bad trade for both teams.

I think we are in complete agreement. The trade doesn't make sense for either team but right now and in a vacuum, the trade heavily favors the flyers.

 

[Richi]

First, not to go off topic too quickly, let´s say that there´s no way Florida does that deal.

Not a starter for a deal here, but who do Flyers fans like better

Huberdeau vs. Schenn? And why?

Also Trocheck would definently play 2C over Couts.

Also where do you guys see Ghosts ceiling, I am kind of surprised no one thinks he could be a #1, or #2. Expecting the soph slump?

Huberdau, because he simply is the better player. I don´t know whether he can play first line LW though, this is an area where we need help, especially if we lose Schenn.

I wouldn´t exactly say the Trocheck is a better player than Couts, but Couts is the ideal 3C, so I´d be fine with having Trocheck as 2C

Ghost doensn´t seem to have the physicality (or the top-notch defensive ability?) to be an all around #1 D like for example Pronger was, but his ceiling is somewhere between becoming what Mark Streit was for the Islanders during the first 3 seasons and in a dream-scenario Nick Lidström.

 

[duffy9748]

Flyers fan saying the value favors them at this point. They aren't trading Provorov to Florida unless Ekblad is coming back though. He is the most important player in the organization moving forward.

 

[whitstifier]

11 mm for a 1st line winger and 2nd line center is great value. Provorov is a great prospect, but he hasn't proven anything yet. His ELC only becomes a true bargain once he performs at the NHL level. Again, not taking anything away from Provorov as a prospect, but even you are using qualifiers when discussing his future. Words like "chance" mean he may or may not live up to your high expectations. You know what you are getting with Huberdeau and Trocheck. Even if you add in contract status into the equation, this proposed trade heavily favors the flyers.

Not sure why you're hung up on qualifiers. I don't think certain terms can be used in talking about future production. You can have a good idea about Huberdeau and Trocheck, but you can't know they'll perform according to expectation.

 

[Hagged]

Flyers fan saying the value favors them at this point. They aren't trading Provorov to Florida unless Ekblad is coming back though. He is the most important player in the organization moving forward.

Really? Not even for Barkov+1st?

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Flyers fan saying the value favors them at this point. They aren't trading Provorov to Florida unless Ekblad is coming back though. He is the most important player in the organization moving forward.

Now I've heard it all lol.

How is this thread still open?

Panthers obviously balk at this proposal.

 

[Rebels57]

IF. IF's are a big thing, especially when the return is a current 1st line winger and a current #2 center. NHL history is littered with guys with #1 D potential who never come close to meeting expectations. Not saying provorov does or doesn't reach #1 status, but in a vacuum, the OP heavily favors the flyers nevermind removing one of the pieces going to florida.



I completely agree with you that the trade makes no sense for the flyers for the reasons you stated, but that isn't what the person I responded to was saying. It was pretty apparent he thinks provorov alone has more value than huberdeau and trocheck

Right, and we don't need a 1st line winger or #2 Center. We need a #1 defensemen.

So no, I would not trade Provorov for Huberdeau and Trochek; let alone Provorov and Rubstov (who could end up a 2C with the same production as Trochek)

None of this makes any sense for either team is really the bottom line.

 

[phlocky]

Not a starter for a deal here, but who do Flyers fans like better

Huberdeau vs. Schenn? And why?

Also Trocheck would definently play 2C over Couts.

Also where do you guys see Ghosts ceiling, I am kind of surprised no one thinks he could be a #1, or #2. Expecting the soph slump?

Ghost will "likely" never be great defensively so I think it would be tough to call him a true #1 dman. Last year was no flash in the pan. The kid just has it between the ears. He sees plays developing and can often disrupt them before they get going. However he's still very small and not very physical. Over the next 2 years he should fill out some but I just don't ever see him having the strength to carry the load in the defensive zone. His offensive ability, off the charts and he run (ie - be the brains) either the top pairing or the 2nd pairing but he'll need one of Provo, Sanheim or Morin to be the physical presence.

Provo is going to be better than Ghost but I fully expect Ghost to get many more Norris nominations than Provo simply because of Ghost's offense (though Provo will be the much much better all around dman)

 

[phlocky]

Hubs is great but if I HAD to trade Provo I too would want Barkov. However, we just can't trade Provo even for Barkov, we really are that desperate for a legit #1 dman with franchise type potential and that's Provo.

 

[Beezeral]

Hubs is great but if I HAD to trade Provo I too would want Barkov. However, we just can't trade Provo even for Barkov, we really are that desperate for a legit #1 dman with franchise type potential and that's Provo.

you do realize that in no way shape or form is Provorov worth a player like Barkov right? The love for this guy is getting completely out of hand ITT.

 

[Starat327]

you do realize that in no way shape or form is Provorov worth a player like Barkov right? The love for this guy is getting completely out of hand ITT.

Value is relative to team needs - its not black and white. In a vacuum, Barkov is absolutely worth more. But to the Flyers? We don't 'need' Barkov like we need Provorov. Barkov's value to us is diminished by already having a superior center to him on our roster.

Provorov's value to the Flyers organization is because he projects as a bonafide 1D, which we havent had since Pronger. It doesnt matter if you offer us a great package for him. Our biggest need is 1D, and unless we are getting one for him (circular logic) it doesn't make the team better by moving him.

 

[duffy9748]

Now I've heard it all lol.

How is this thread still open?

Panthers obviously balk at this proposal.

It isn't that hard to comprehend. The Flyers biggest need going forward is a top pairing defenseman. Why would they trade it for marginal upgrades up front? I didn't think I had to say that Provorov for Ekblad would obviously never happen but apparently you can't read between the lines.