Proposal: Fleury for a D-man

[Spazkat]

He doesn't have a full NTC. He can be traded to 18 teams without needing to waive.

Wait, what? If Fleury has a limited NTC then why do they have to protect him? I was under the impression that teams were only required to protect players with full no moves

 

[nmbr_24]

Or MAF will be bought out, or traded to one of the teams not on his no-trade list.

Murray could offer some really good returns but not on his 900k contract. He'd have to be packaged with some salary dumps in exchange for something great - and even then I don't see the returning piece as being worth gambling our playoff future on MAF.

I see that and agree totally but I also think a lot of teams are not going to want to be gambling their playoff future on MAF. He makes quite a bit of money too. How many teams that are not on his no trade list actually are going to want a goaltender? We don't know but their are only a few teams that really need a goaltender.

I don't know if any GMs see things like I do but I would not really want to trust MAF in the playoffs because of his history.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Yeah Brad Treliving, Isn't going to trade a 23 year old Dougie Hamilton for a soon to be 32 year old Marc Andre-Fleury in any kind of deal. Besides i don't see Fleury waiving for Calgary pretty sure they're on his NTC.

Just an idea.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Just an idea.

Money for money it works out perfectly, Pittsburgh might still have to add a little. I would think that if Treliving traded Hamilton that he would want another D man in return.

 

[Extra Texture]

Good.

So what do you want for Murray? You are just going to lose him in the expansion draft anyways . Unless Fleury agrees to be 'traded' and you offer enough 1st rounder to the team taking him.

People are still living in this fantasyland, huh?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Wait, what? If Fleury has a limited NTC then why do they have to protect him? I was under the impression that teams were only required to protect players with full no moves

I believe he has a NMC and limited NTC. Which basically means he can't be moved (ie..waived/sent down) and if traded can only go a team he pre-approves on his list. I believe players with clauses like Fleury still have to be protected.

What I've read is:

"Players holding no-movement clauses – including those modified by limited no-trades, such as Pittsburgh Penguins goalie Marc-Andre Fleury – count against the protection limit, provided that those contracts and clauses extend through the 2017-18 season."

Fleury’s deal is a bit of a hybrid, in the sense that his limited no-move clause prevents his being demoted or waived while his limited no-trade addresses the places where he could be traded. In the even there’s a player with that kind of deal, apparently they have to be protected.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Money for money it works out perfectly, Pittsburgh might still have to add a little. I would think that if Treliving traded Hamilton that he would want another D man in return.

Well that Pittsburgh has. Thought it might work as a base with both teams against the cap.

Some other salary swaps and picks/prospects...just spitballing.

Anyway, an idea.

 

[Riptide]

Granted I don't wanna see Flower traded but it only makes sense with the expansion draft. Who would be willing to swap a defensemen for Flower?

Just an FYI. The odds of Rutherford being able to be that choosy in terms of what he's getting in return is slim. It's quite possible that he can manage to get some half decent value for MAF - but it's almost certainly going to come in the form of a goalie+. And that + is almost certainly going to be futures - or if he's really lucky a young NHL ready player/prospect. Realistically it'll be a goalie and a pick or two.

I won't even get into your "I don't wanna see MAF traded" comment.

 

[Riptide]

Murray won't be available in the expansion draft, it's either trade MAF, bribe Vegas to not take Murray or buy out Fleury. If Vegas says no to the bribe, Fleury will just get bought out or traded. The idea that the Pens have to add to trade Fleury is so dumb that it doesn't merit a serious response.

Why do the Pens need a defenseman exactly? Once Letang's back, their defense will be fine.

Or have MAF waive his NMC for the draft. That's not entirely out of the question. That said I still think the most realistic scenario (unfortunately) is Murray getting traded.

I don't see Rutherford trading MAF for peanuts and I don't see there being enough of a market for him to actually get decent value in a trade. I think MAF getting bought out is very unrealistic. Which means (at least in my mind) it's either MAF waiving his NMC, bribing LV or Murray getting moved. Which of those do you think is more realistic? It's possible that LV won't get too greedy in it's ask for a bribe, but if push comes to shove, I see Murray getting moved. Or maybe MAF will waive with the idea that JR can see about bribing LV not to take him? The cost there should be slightly cheaper then doing that for Murray - especially if MAF waiving isn't binding on that bribe.

 

[Riptide]

To WPG: Fleury
To PIT: Hutchinson, Stafford

I'd ask for a mid pick (3rd/4th) as well, but if push came to shove, I'd probably do it.

 

[DropIt]

Well that Pittsburgh has. Thought it might work as a base with both teams against the cap.

Some other salary swaps and picks/prospects...just spitballing.

Anyway, an idea.

Not to mention Calgary has a goaltender

 

[Phry]

Or have MAF waive his NMC for the draft. That's not entirely out of the question. That said I still think the most realistic scenario (unfortunately) is Murray getting traded.

I don't see Rutherford trading MAF for peanuts and I don't see there being enough of a market for him to actually get decent value in a trade. I think MAF getting bought out is very unrealistic. Which means (at least in my mind) it's either MAF waiving his NMC, bribing LV or Murray getting moved. Which of those do you think is more realistic? It's possible that LV won't get too greedy in it's ask for a bribe, but if push comes to shove, I see Murray getting moved. Or maybe MAF will waive with the idea that JR can see about bribing LV not to take him? The cost there should be slightly cheaper then doing that for Murray - especially if MAF waiving isn't binding on that bribe.

The most recent comparable being Minnesota getting a 3rd and an 8th for them not selecting Nabokov. Albeit that was 16 years ago.

 

[Empoleon8771]

To WPG: Fleury
To PIT: Hutchinson, Stafford

I'd do this but Winnipeg wouldn't be interested in MAF since they have Hellebuyck.

I'd trade Ryan Murphy for Fleury.

Penguins trade Schultz and Fleury
Canes trade Pesce and Lack

Who adds and how much?

 

[Riptide]

The most recent comparable being Minnesota getting a 3rd and an 8th for them not selecting Nabokov. Albeit that was 16 years ago.

Not sure how comparable that is... he'd played 11 NHL games with meh NHL numbers prior to that draft. Not like Murray has played all that much more (36?) but he set records as an AHL rookie then backstopped the Pens to a cup.

I don't think it'll be something insane (one of PITs top/better prospects) or their 1st, but I don't think it'll be all that cheap either. I figure at least a 2nd+.

 

[Halla]

Murray won't be available in the expansion draft, it's either trade MAF, bribe Vegas to not take Murray or buy out Fleury. If Vegas says no to the bribe, Fleury will just get bought out or traded. The idea that the Pens have to add to trade Fleury is so dumb that it doesn't merit a serious response.

Why do the Pens need a defenseman exactly? Once Letang's back, their defense will be fine.

your options are terrible. "bribe vegas". I think they take their chances a franchise young tender is forced to be exposed. "trade him". and who is gonna trade for fleury right before the expansion draft? his value will be almost 0 regardless. "bought out" obviously the pens dont need dead weight until 2021 and get 0 return for fleury.

they should just trade him for niemi+ and get it over with. niemi doesnt have to be p[rotected, and just might get claimed

 

[Halla]

Not sure how comparable that is... he'd played 11 NHL games with meh NHL numbers prior to that draft. Not like Murray has played all that much more (36?) but he set records as an AHL rookie then backstopped the Pens to a cup.

I don't think it'll be something insane (one of PITs top/better prospects) or their 1st, but I don't think it'll be all that cheap either. I figure at least a 2nd+.

vegas probably just waits pittsburgh out on this one. a late 2nd is pretty meh compared to the chance to steal murray. Sprong could work though

 

[Riptide]

vegas probably just waits pittsburgh out on this one. a late 2nd is pretty meh compared to the chance to steal murray. Sprong could work though

Why would PIT do that (over paying drastically - like giving up Sprong or another top prospect or a 1st/1st+) when they can if push comes to shove trade Murray, get a pretty good return and keep MAF? I'll admit it's not ideal, but I'm willing to bet a lot that PITs management thinks a lot more of MAF than 99% of those on this site.

 

[Blue Goose]

Just an FYI. The odds of Rutherford being able to be that choosy in terms of what he's getting in return is slim. It's quite possible that he can manage to get some half decent value for MAF - but it's almost certainly going to come in the form of a goalie+. And that + is almost certainly going to be futures - or if he's really lucky a young NHL ready player/prospect. Realistically it'll be a goalie and a pick or two.

I know it's been mentioned in this thread, as well as most of the other MAF threads, but Dallas seems like the best possibility. They're going to have several contracts coming off the books for next year (Hemsky, Hudler, Eaves, Korpikoski, Sharp if he doesn't re-sign), so I wonder if they could take back Fehr as well - and if PIT wants D, the Stars have Nemeth or Oleksiak who could conceivably be expendable.

Everyone keeps saying Niemi, but I think Lehtonen is the goalie they would move. Nill signed Niemi, while Lehtonen got his contract from Joe Nieuwendyk - I'd say Kari is the one to go.

PIT gets: Kari Lehtonen, Patrik Nemeth, 3rd rd pick
DAL gets: MAF, Eric Fehr

Would that make sense for each team? (PS. This trade would take place after this season is over)

 

[Dying Alive]

I know it's been mentioned in this thread, as well as most of the other MAF threads, but Dallas seems like the best possibility. They're going to have several contracts coming off the books for next year (Hemsky, Hudler, Eaves, Korpikoski, Sharp if he doesn't re-sign), so I wonder if they could take back Fehr as well - and if PIT wants D, the Stars have Nemeth or Oleksiak who could conceivably be expendable.

Everyone keeps saying Niemi, but I think Lehtonen is the goalie they would move. Nill signed Niemi, while Lehtonen got his contract from Joe Nieuwendyk - I'd say Kari is the one to go.

PIT gets: Kari Lehtonen, Patrik Nemeth, 3rd rd pick
DAL gets: MAF, Eric Fehr

Would that make sense for each team? (PS. This trade would take place after this season is over)

Lehtonen has a limited NTC, correct? If that carries over to the Pens it doesn't work. The only reason they'd be moving MAF in the first place is to get a goalie they don't have to protect in an expansion draft.

 

[Empoleon8771]

your options are terrible. "bribe vegas". I think they take their chances a franchise young tender is forced to be exposed.

vegas probably just waits pittsburgh out on this one. a late 2nd is pretty meh compared to the chance to steal murray. Sprong could work though

Again, read it closely now, Murray will not be exposed in the expansion draft. If Vegas says no to a bribe, the Pens will either trade Fleury or buy him out. It's never "take a bribe or steal Murray", it's "take a bribe or Fleury gets bought out".

"trade him". and who is gonna trade for fleury right before the expansion draft? his value will be almost 0 regardless.

The same teams that would trade for him right now? What kind of dumb question is this? It being closer to the expansion draft means the Penguins would have to be willing to accept less to trade him because they don't have any leverage. That doesn't mean that "no teams are going to be interested in him" or "he will have zero value".

"bought out" obviously the pens dont need dead weight until 2021 and get 0 return for fleury.

First you said no one is going to trade for him and he has no value, then you said "lol why would the Pens buy him out and get nothing for him instead of trading him?". Make up your mind.

 

[DropIt]

should have just lowered their price to Calgary

 

[MayorofWBS]

I know it's been mentioned in this thread, as well as most of the other MAF threads, but Dallas seems like the best possibility. They're going to have several contracts coming off the books for next year (Hemsky, Hudler, Eaves, Korpikoski, Sharp if he doesn't re-sign), so I wonder if they could take back Fehr as well - and if PIT wants D, the Stars have Nemeth or Oleksiak who could conceivably be expendable.

Everyone keeps saying Niemi, but I think Lehtonen is the goalie they would move. Nill signed Niemi, while Lehtonen got his contract from Joe Nieuwendyk - I'd say Kari is the one to go.

PIT gets: Kari Lehtonen, Patrik Nemeth, 3rd rd pick
DAL gets: MAF, Eric Fehr

Would that make sense for each team? (PS. This trade would take place after this season is over)

Can't see Pittsburgh taking on Kari Lehtonen full salary (which is higher than MAF's) plus give up Fehr. They're always so close to the cap. If we talking an offseason trade, why not just do a Niemi for MAF swap? Minor sweetener could be added for balance but I think that's close.

 

[Riptide]

Lehtonen has a limited NTC, correct? If that carries over to the Pens it doesn't work. The only reason they'd be moving MAF in the first place is to get a goalie they don't have to protect in an expansion draft.

You only have to protect players with NMCs, not NTCs.

Everyone keeps saying Niemi, but I think Lehtonen is the goalie they would move. Nill signed Niemi, while Lehtonen got his contract from Joe Nieuwendyk - I'd say Kari is the one to go.

PIT gets: Kari Lehtonen, Patrik Nemeth, 3rd rd pick
DAL gets: MAF, Eric Fehr

Would that make sense for each team? (PS. This trade would take place after this season is over)

I think the value in general with this is off. I know Nemeth isn't a cap dump by any means... but as a LD, he really doesn't do anything for us.

I'd be fine with a Lehtonen/MAF swap as long as DAL was adding something worth while to take AL over AN. A 3rd and Nemeth with us sending Fehr back doesn't do anything - especially as Fehr holds value and has been a very useful player for us. And while his 2m cap hit isn't cheap for the 4th line, I still wouldn't move him (at least at this time) unless we were getting useful pieces in return. Perhaps that would change down the road if we needed cap space.

For those complaining of the cap hit of Lehtonen (5.9m), I think you'd just buy him out. He makes 5m in salary, so a buy out isn't that bad (2.56m and 1.66m). Between that and his replacement, PIT wouldn't save much actual cash (maybe 500k or so depending on the backup), but they would save ~3.3m in cap space in year 1 and only have a 1.66m penalty in year 2. Still not ideal - but if DAL was adding a piece that was nice enough (sorry BG that's not Nementh and a 3rd), I'd absolutely do it.