GDT: Flames at Kings: November 30

[MonahanTheMan]

What have you been smoking and why aren't you sharing?

Brodie is better at protecting the puck and getting it into the neutral zone, but not a puck-moving defenseman in the traditional sense that often jumps into the rush and makes the first pass, at least not enough to yet be called a puck-moving defenseman. Maybe we will see that from him at some point, but I am not seeing it early this season. That's fine, I like him better as a brick on defense anyways, but I am kind of scratching my head as to why someone would classify him as the same sort of player as Russell or Wideman.

 

[Calculon]

They mentioned this after the game; most defensemen don't peak until they reach 31 or so years of age. The fact that Brodie's already so good defensively at 23 is something quite remarkable. If he ever gets his offensive game going, he'll be a force. If not, he'll be a Paul Martin or a more intense Bouwmeester (the Brent Sutter version), who are still very good players.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Brodie is better at protecting the puck and getting it into the neutral zone, but not a puck-moving defenseman in the traditional sense that often jumps into the rush and makes the first pass, at least not enough to yet be called a puck-moving defenseman. Maybe we will see that from him at some point, but I am not seeing it early this season. That's fine, I like him better as a brick on defense anyways, but I am kind of scratching my head as to why someone would classify him as the same sort of player as Russell or Wideman.

Because that is what he is... We had to many PMD. Why do you think we picked up Smid? Our defense was soft. If Brodie was the defenseman you are saying he is, we probably would have never traded for Smid in the first place. Smid is what we needed.

 

[MonahanTheMan]

Because that is what he is... We had to many PMD. Why do you think we picked up Smid? Our defense was soft. If Brodie was the defenseman you are saying he is, we probably would have never traded for Smid in the first place. Smid is what we needed.

I thought the Smid acquisition was a dumb move from the start, so your argument is invalid. The way I've seen it, and the sentiment I've seen from a lot of posters on this board, is that Brodie is right now one of the only defensemen we have who plays a true, 100 percent defensive game. One doesn't have to look too deep into his game to see he is better as a defensive defenseman who makes smart plays in his own zone rather than a point man on the power play or something like that.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Hope the Flames take their dads out and they all get hammered in LA, that game deserves a celebration. And no injuries..? Right?

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

I thought the Smid acquisition was a dumb move from the start, so your argument is invalid. The way I've seen it, and the sentiment I've seen from a lot of posters on this board, is that Brodie is right now one of the only defensemen we have who plays a true, 100 percent defensive game. One doesn't have to look too deep into his game to see he is better as a defensive defenseman who makes smart plays in his own zone rather than a point man on the power play or something like that.

Your first statement is invalid. Smid has been our defenseman we have who plays a true, 100 percent defensive game. Brodie is always on the Powerplay. Usually our 4 Dman would be Gio, Wideman, Russel, and Brodie on the PP. I honestly don't get how you don't see Brodie as PMD.

 

[DCDM]

Your first statement is invalid. Smid has been our defenseman we have who plays a true, 100 percent defensive game. Brodie is always on the Powerplay. Usually our 4 Dman would be Gio, Wideman, Russel, and Brodie on the PP. I honestly don't get how you don't see Brodie as PMD.

NHL 14 has him as a TWD so that must be it

 

[MonahanTheMan]

Your first statement is invalid. Smid has been our defenseman we have who plays a true, 100 percent defensive game. Brodie is always on the Powerplay. Usually our 4 Dman would be Gio, Wideman, Russel, and Brodie on the PP. I honestly don't get how you don't see Brodie as PMD.

I think he has PMD aspects to his game, but is more of an all-around defenseman and that what we've seen from him so far has leaned towards his defensive side. Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one, I get where you're coming from but I've noticed one side of his game far more than the other up till this point.

 

[MonahanTheMan]

NHL 14 has him as a TWD so that must be it

I would kill to even have a copy of NHL 14 tbh

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

NHL 14 has him as a TWD so that must be it

Nope! He is a OFD. I just checked.

 

[BVicious]

I would kill to even have a copy of NHL 14 tbh

I have list of people, I will buy u a copy

 

[MonahanTheMan]

I have list of people, I will buy u a copy

First up is Jeff Carter, right?

 

[MonahanTheMan]

Also, wow, I am reading the Kings PGT right now and never have I seen such levels of rustling grace HFBoards. These guys are top mad.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Brodie is a fantastic skater, one of his main strengths is that he's excellent at driving the play. Before his rough little stretch he had this season, he's traditionally been someone who makes excellent passes and usually makes the smart play. Unless you just started watching him this season, and ignored his play in Jr (where he put very good numbers) and on the Heat, calling him a defensive dman, is a completely inaccurate statement, there is really nothing to agree to disagree on. The fact that he is very good in his own end is a huge bonus and just adds to the contributions he provides. Brodie is an offensive, PMD no matter which way you slice it. I am quite confident it's only a matter of time before his production really gets going. One only needs to look at a guy like Russell, only Brodie is further along in his development than Russell was at his age.

 

[BVicious]

First up is Jeff Carter, right?

Uuuuuuh no, I was thinking more my ex. I like Jeff carter.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

Also, wow, I am reading the Kings PGT right now and never have I seen such levels of rustling grace HFBoards. These guys are top mad.

Same as the last time we beat them. Then, we were the biggest divers of all time (lol) and the referees were the sole reason they lost. Kings fans are annoying crybabies

 

[MonahanTheMan]

Brodie is a fantastic skater, one of his main strengths is that he's excellent at driving the play. Before his rough little stretch he had this season, he's traditionally been someone who makes excellent passes and usually makes the smart play. Unless you just started watching him this season, and ignored his play in Jr (where he put very good numbers) and on the Heat, calling him a defensive dman, is a completely inaccurate statement, there is really nothing to agree to disagree on. The fact that he is very good in his own end is a huge bonus and just adds to the contributions he provides. Brodie is an offensive, PMD no matter which way you slice it. I am quite confident it's only a matter of time before his production really gets going. One only needs to look at a guy like Russell, only Brodie is further along in his development than Russell was at his age.

Honestly that would explain it. I wasn't really interested in prospect development until the year before last and didn't watch much of Brodie in junior or the AHL: sure, I've seen his numbers, but never got to actually see him play. If his offensive game is still revving up, then great, he is going to be an incredible dman. I had just assumed based on all the play I've seen from him over the last three years that he was simply a very good stay-at-home defenseman, because that's what I've seen. But if he has enough offensive upside to warrant being called a PMD, then great. You've just got to forgive me for having not seen it during his time in the NHL.

 

[MonahanTheMan]

Uuuuuuh no, I was thinking more my ex. I like Jeff carter.

You and me both, friend

 

[Unlimited Chequing]

After the Argos and the Kings, let's hope Tom Hanks never cheers for a team you like

 

[herashak]

brodie isnt a puck mover because he can play defence amirite

 

[MonahanTheMan]

brodie isnt a puck mover because he can play defence amirite

That's not what I said, I said that Brodie tends to play defense in the NHL and we haven't seen any notable offensive ability out of him, so one would assume he is probably a stay-at-home defenseman. Try harder next time.

 

[Anglesmith]

That's not what I said, I said that Brodie tends to play defense in the NHL and we haven't seen any notable offensive ability out of him, so one would assume he is probably a stay-at-home defenseman. Try harder next time.

MonahanTheMan, your homework for next game is to watch TJ Brodie for a period, watch Ladislav Smid for a period, then watch TJ Brodie for a period again. Compare and contrast.

I think you may be conflating "offensive defenceman" and "puck-moving defenceman." Does Brodie skate the puck out of his zone, join the rush with speed through the neutral zone, and make a good pass out of our zone? Yes. That is the definition of a PMD. Have you not seen the numerous times during this season that TJ Brodie has driven the slot on the rush and deflected the puck? By numerous, of course, I mean I've noticed it in at least two specific instances (which means it probably has happened a few more times at least). That doesn't happen with a stay-at-home defenceman.

Now, has he shown the capability to run a powerplay, get a lethal shot through, dance through opposing checks, fire passes for tap-ins at the back door? Do we see him down below the opposing goal line very often? I would say not really. There are occasional flashes, but I wouldn't say he's developed that part of his game enough yet to be considered a true offensive defenceman, like say Drew Doughty, or even Torey Krug.

 

[Anglesmith]

Cammy channelling some old school Iggy on that last shift! Fantastic to get a win especially against Sutter. Brodie and Ramo were our best players overall. Backlund and Cammy played strong to.

Anyone else smell playoffs, huh, huh?

Thank you for saying this. I've been looking for an excuse to use this gif!

 

[MonahanTheMan]

MonahanTheMan, your homework for next game is to watch TJ Brodie for a period, watch Ladislav Smid for a period, then watch TJ Brodie for a period again. Compare and contrast.

I think you may be conflating "offensive defenceman" and "puck-moving defenceman." Does Brodie skate the puck out of his zone, join the rush with speed through the neutral zone, and make a good pass out of our zone? Yes. That is the definition of a PMD. Have you not seen the numerous times during this season that TJ Brodie has driven the slot on the rush and deflected the puck? By numerous, of course, I mean I've noticed it in at least two specific instances (which means it probably has happened a few more times at least). That doesn't happen with a stay-at-home defenceman.

Now, has he shown the capability to run a powerplay, get a lethal shot through, dance through opposing checks, fire passes for tap-ins at the back door? Do we see him down below the opposing goal line very often? I would say not really. There are occasional flashes, but I wouldn't say he's developed that part of his game enough yet to be considered a true offensive defenceman, like say Drew Doughty, or even Torey Krug.

I have understood offensive defenseman and puck-moving defenseman to mean much the same thing, because they are generally applied to the same players. If we are understanding the two terms to mean very different things, then that's the problem. Furthermore, I think other people in the thread are also seeing things from my point of view (see: "Brodie put up loads of points in junior and in Abbotsford he will do the same here"; "Brodie is pretty much the exact same guy as Wideman and Russell"), which only serves to strengthen my argument that you are misunderstanding what I mean.

I think Brodie plays excellent defense in his own zone, and the main aspect of that defense he plays is moving the puck into the neutral zone, but not necessarily deep into the offensive zone, and also making good plays to break up odd-man rushes and diffuse scoring opportunities. I see Brodie putting his defensive responsibilities first, and not throwing pucks on net every game like what we see from Wideman and Russell. In that respect, I consider him to be a stay-at-home defenseman with good all-around traits, because he is not a big point-getter and does not consistently quarterback a first or second power play unit or something like that, he is primarily concerned with taking the opposition off the puck and then throwing it to the forwards who generally chip-and-chase.

Last, I think dividing up the category of "defenseman who do something with the puck besides block it" into categories as similar as offensive defenseman and puck-moving defenseman is nitpicking because they are generally synonymous, and Brodie is one of really only a few exceptions. In short, I agree with you on these things, I just think you are getting hung up on semantics. We are watching the same player after all.

 

[Anglesmith]

I have understood offensive defenseman and puck-moving defenseman to mean much the same thing, because they are generally applied to the same players. If we are understanding the two terms to mean very different things, then that's the problem. Furthermore, I think other people in the thread are also seeing things from my point of view (see: "Brodie put up loads of points in junior and in Abbotsford he will do the same here"; "Brodie is pretty much the exact same guy as Wideman and Russell"), which only serves to strengthen my argument that you are misunderstanding what I mean.

I think Brodie plays excellent defense in his own zone, and the main aspect of that defense he plays is moving the puck into the neutral zone, but not necessarily deep into the offensive zone, and also making good plays to break up odd-man rushes and diffuse scoring opportunities. I see Brodie putting his defensive responsibilities first, and not throwing pucks on net every game like what we see from Wideman and Russell. In that respect, I consider him to be a stay-at-home defenseman with good all-around traits, because he is not a big point-getter and does not consistently quarterback a first or second power play unit or something like that, he is primarily concerned with taking the opposition off the puck and then throwing it to the forwards who generally chip-and-chase.

Last, I think dividing up the category of "defenseman who do something with the puck besides block it" into categories as similar as offensive defenseman and puck-moving defenseman is nitpicking because they are generally synonymous, and Brodie is one of really only a few exceptions. In short, I agree with you on these things, I just think you are getting hung up on semantics. We are watching the same player after all.

The thing is, I'm not really sure there's anything in the definition of puck-moving defenceman that Brodie does not do. You made a post a while back saying that you didn't think that Brodie ever joins the rush, but that's just demonstrably false, and doesn't seem like a misunderstanding on my part at all.