GDT: Flames at Canes: The drive to ninth, day drinking edition

[HisIceness]

This discussion is so much more interesting than this game was.

Experience Hurricanes hockey.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

With many courses that's true, but lab courses (in my opinion) cannot be learned well through reading. You need the hands on experience for some things.

Also, I learned more from arguing with classmates in philosophy courses than I did from the readings.

But for history courses or something similar I think that's absolutely true.

Edit:

Also, first semester of undergrad I had 8am Chemistry M-W-F and 8am Calculus on Tues-Thurs. Wanted to die halfway through week 1

Yes. Lab courses are the clear exception.

But even there, the qualitative differences in actual instruction between institutions are vastly overstated.

 

[Lempo]

Then, at some point, the jocks come out to skate for an hour, and we cheer.

 

[The Stranger]

No one learns **** in college anyway that they couldn't have learned from a book.

The data says that college is about cohort. Period.

Let's do a study where we have 1000 students enrolled in a 4-year STEM University Program and 1000 that are not but have a suggested reading list (same books used at University). We can normalize the "cohort" component...which group will have learned more at the end of a 4 year period?

 

[NotOpie]

Yep. The drive to send everyone to a 4-year college, regardless of aptitude or temperament, is a big problem.

If Trump really wanted to send a message, he would have rolled the Departments of Labor and Education together and put Mike Rowe in charge.

I have long held that the single largest challenge to our educational system is the is the slow death of vocational/technical education in high school. Not to be a "get off my lawn" old guy, but there was a time when kids graduated from high school who were on the vo-tech track and they could get jobs/sit for licenses in these fields immediately out of high school.

We're not your friends, we are your gang.

I believe the word is posse, but that might be my microaggression talking.

No one learns **** in college anyway that they couldn't have learned from a book.

The data says that college is about cohort. Period.

Had an old professor of mine tell me that the most important thing in college was learning how to learn...and he didn't mean entirely in the classroom. People, places, things, baby!

 

[NotOpie]

Let's do a study where we have 1000 students enrolled in a 4-year STEM University Program and 1000 that are not but have a suggested reading list (same books used at University). We can normalize the "cohort" component...which group will have learned more at the end of a 4 year period?

Learned "more" or learned the "more useful"?

 

[the halleJOKEL]

the courses in my minor were like paying to have an internship so that was cool

100% job placement at graduation in that program still to this day over a decade after it was founded

 

[vorbis]

Let's do a study where we have 1000 students enrolled in a 4-year STEM University Program and 1000 that are not but have a suggested reading list (same books used at University). We can normalize the "cohort" component...which group will have learned more at the end of a 4 year period?

how "learned more" is defined is arguably the most contentious part of your hypothetical

 

[NotOpie]

how "learned more" is defined is arguably the most contentious part of your hypothetical

I'm guessing that's something that should've been learned in college.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's called turning your decifit into a strenght.

But theoretically, maybe the kids who copied the incomprehensible text from the board could at some point of the course visit their 1st lesson scriptings, and it would make sense to them now when they have learned the concepts, and the brightests ones could maybe hazard to guess there was an ulterior motive in their professor writing it all there and then be rewarded in the exam for the effort they put into the course.

Say you've got a student in the room who actually DID write down every word the professor wrote all semester, but doesn't have a clue what any of it means. That student just got an "A" in a college-level course on that subject matter. Unless the course title was "Transcription 101", there's a problem here.

It's a clever little gag by the professor, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny as a teaching tool.

 

[Lempo]

Say you've got a student in the room who actually DID write down every word the professor wrote all semester, but doesn't have a clue what any of it means. That student just got an "A" in a college-level course on that subject matter. Unless the course title was "Transcription 101", there's a problem here.

It's a clever little gag by the professor, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny as a teaching tool.

I don't think there has been a question of the gimmicky nature of the whole thing. It certainly isn't the peak pedagogy or anything. But, as I understood it was a 101 something (as no one had idea what it was about), so a course where you're mainly given the tools and concepts needed on the following courses. If you're clueless after the course, you will need to pick it up later on anyway. Someone having a problem of someone else getting an easy A from 101 is such a 1st world problem.

I speak as someone getting a 2 from Methodology of Administrative Sciences for reading and trying to comprehend the course as a whole while my friends got a 3 for opting to read only the known bait questions and answers for the exam. And as someone who poorly could remember the four item list of 'limitations of discretion' after the Public Law 101 but who can now and forevermore quote them forwards and backwards after they became an actual important to know thing in the later "applied" courses.

No one in the real world will care if you got an A back in the day from 101. I think the most important lesson to learn is to not bite bait, hook and sink when people (including you yourself) come try cheat you thinking that something non-important is important.

I fret to try remember if the grown-up teachers ever exchanged well-meaning but desperate glances with the grown-up students that wordlessly said: "Will you just look at these poor children."

 

[tarheelhockey]

Someone having a problem of someone else getting an easy A from 101 is such a 1st world problem.

I guess it literally is a first world problem.

The purpose of college is to educate students. If success in your college is not linked to understanding of the course subject matter, then there's something wrong with your college.

This is a case where the professor blatantly set up a way for students to succeed without understanding the subject matter, then used that gag to teach a "life lesson" along the lines that you should always record information written by an authority even if it makes no actual sense to do so ("Welp, he's writing something so I better copy it verbatim... just in case"). And then apparently used that lesson to unnerve his class during a final exam, or something. It's bizarre campus-celebrity type behavior that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[geehaad]

I guess it literally is a first world problem.

The purpose of college is to educate students. If success in your college is not linked to understanding of the course subject matter, then there's something wrong with your college.

This is a case where the professor blatantly set up a way for students to succeed without understanding the subject matter, then used that gag to teach a "life lesson" along the lines that you should always record information written by an authority even if it makes no actual sense to do so ("Welp, he's writing something so I better copy it verbatim... just in case"). And then apparently used that lesson to unnerve his class during a final exam, or something. It's bizarre campus-celebrity type behavior that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

/thread

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

This is a case where the professor blatantly set up a way for students to succeed without understanding the subject matter, then used that gag to teach a "life lesson" along the lines that you should always record information written by an authority even if it makes no actual sense to do so ("Welp, he's writing something so I better copy it verbatim... just in case"). And then apparently used that lesson to unnerve his class during a final exam, or something. It's bizarre campus-celebrity type behavior that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Yeah Tarheel, I don't think it was any sort of "life lesson". It was pretty much viewed as a gag that he thought was funny. None of us read any more into it than that and it certainly didn't change the way any of us took notes in future classes.

I always thought the guy was kind of an arrogant dick honestly. Seemed to have a chip on his shoulder because he was teaching Economics at an Engineering school, so people HAD to take his classes, but not that many were really interested in what he was teaching. He'd single people out in class (not in a good way) at times as well.

 

[Lempo]

I guess it literally is a first world problem.

The purpose of college is to educate students. If success in your college is not linked to understanding of the course subject matter, then there's something wrong with your college.

This is a case where the professor blatantly set up a way for students to succeed without understanding the subject matter, then used that gag to teach a "life lesson" along the lines that you should always record information written by an authority even if it makes no actual sense to do so ("Welp, he's writing something so I better copy it verbatim... just in case"). And then apparently used that lesson to unnerve his class during a final exam, or something. It's bizarre campus-celebrity type behavior that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

I referred to 1st world problem as an exaggerated mockery. But, I'm also speaking as someone whose school was tuition-free and whose Basic course grades don't factor into the final grade so I may be more ready to find mirth from this than the next guy. Also, I wisened up and started picking predominantly 3's from the Advanced courses so it worked well for me in that regard.

Also, I may mock my school as mediocre flaming red nest of commies and my program as Law Lite from where often enough an amount of students come to their senses and apply for a proper law school to get a degree with some actual prestige, but I'm not gonna take badmouthing my Alma Mater from you.