Proposal: Fixing the Bs Blueline

[4ORRBRUIN]

trouba to boston for mcavoy and spooner.

And then you woke up. Who else is coming from the Jets ?

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

And due to missing assets, it needs to be a rebuild through draft. Boston used to be a force. Now it's a shadow of what it was. Chara's decline is one of the reasons.

They need to dump everything valuable over 25 years old for picks (and prospects), and go to perennial suck mode. Edmonton style.

This is laughable , Bruins are pulling off a rebuild they way MOST fanbases would get behind. Bruins fans are not interested in watching garbage losing hockey year after year.

The Leafs will still suck this year , The Oilers are a McDAVID injury away from being in the lottery again for 100th time and the Sabres will have the worst record in the league this year AGAIN. Sure sign me up for that

 

[ffh]

And then you woke up. Who else is coming from the Jets ?

there are people on the jets boards think boston should add I don't. this was a bruin fan proposal at first also had mcquaid as a cap dump as part of deal. trouba will play 25 minutes right away. mcavoy is still 4 years behind trouba in devolpment. you need bodies now. more than fair deal.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

there are people on the jets boards think boston should add I don't. this was a bruin fan proposal at first also had mcquaid as a cap dump as part of deal. trouba will play 25 minutes right away. mcavoy is still 4 years behind trouba in devolpment. you need bodies now. more than fair deal.

Not even close to a fair deal.

 

[vipernsx]

They've had zero contract talks because Trouba simply wants out.
Difficult to offer that then.

Anyone who says that Winnipeg isn't in a bad situations needs to remember the past. Kyle Turris and Jacob Trouba have the same mastermind behind the scenes and it didn't work out to well for the Coyotes.

http://www.fiveforhowling.com/2013/12/18/5222692/kyle-turris-for-david-rundblad-trade-two-years-later

After reading this article, Dylan McIlrath and a 2nd round pick for Jacob Trouba seems more appropriate.

 

[Hunter368]

Anyone who says that Winnipeg isn't in a bad situations needs to remember the past. Kyle Turris and Jacob Trouba have the same mastermind behind the scenes and it didn't work out to well for the Coyotes.

http://www.fiveforhowling.com/2013/12/18/5222692/kyle-turris-for-david-rundblad-trade-two-years-later

After reading this article, Dylan McIlrath and a 2nd round pick for Jacob Trouba seems more appropriate.

Believe that if you like, but if Chevy was willing to accept 10 cents on the dollar for trouba....it would of happened 100 times over by now. Your offer isn't even in the right stratosphere.

Not even remotely close

 

[Bad Puck Bounce]

trouba to boston for mcavoy and spooner.

Yeah... **** no. I like Trouba but not for that.

Krug's going no where, he just signed that new contract. It would look real bad to free agents if Boston moved Krug or Kevan Miller this season.

 

[wintersej]

Trouba is seeking $5.5 million per long term so Krug would help there, But Spooner makes about $925,000 or so and adding Fowler for $4 million doubt the Bs have the cap space for both without sending another expensive piece out.

Well, no, the Bruins would be fine. They just would have to stop carrying 14 forwards and 9 D on the roster. Which means they would lose some guys on waivers (i.e Joe Morrow).

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/205892

 

[wintersej]

trouba to boston for mcavoy and spooner.

there are people on the jets boards think boston should add I don't. this was a bruin fan proposal at first also had mcquaid as a cap dump as part of deal. trouba will play 25 minutes right away. mcavoy is still 4 years behind trouba in devolpment. you need bodies now. more than fair deal.

If McQuaid and Burmistrov were added to the deal, I would probably do it.

 

[Evil Little]

After reading this article, Dylan McIlrath and a 2nd round pick for Jacob Trouba seems more appropriate.

If this is the offer then I'd be delighted to let Trouba ****ing rot in the KHL.

Any time an RFA got ideas we could sing them the song of Trouba. Like The Rains of Castamere.

 

[Hunter368]

If this is the offer then I'd be delighted to let Trouba ****ing rot in the KHL.

Any time an RFA got ideas we could sing them the song of Trouba. Like The Rains of Castamere.

Agreed, that offer isn't enough to even get Chevy to pick up the phone. Chevys secretary would decline that offer

 

[PsychoDad]

If this is the offer then I'd be delighted to let Trouba ****ing rot in the KHL.

Any time an RFA got ideas we could sing them the song of Trouba. Like The Rains of Castamere.

Yeah, have fun signing undrafted college players - because it will never happen and prepare to see your drafted college players going full Wheeler on you - because this will happen if you let a high quality young player rot somewhere because he is RFA. Every single player agent will be your enemy.

 

[Evil Little]

Yeah, have fun signing undrafted college players - because it will never happen and prepare to see your drafted college players going full Wheeler on you - because this will happen if you let a high quality young player rot somewhere because he is RFA. Every single player agent will be your enemy.

Yeah, 'cause every college UFA is just begging to come to Winnipeg right now. Promising discounts on their second contracts.

And how many agents don't use Overhardt's hardball tactics? The vast, vast majority. Do you think they'd care if the Jets respond to Overhardt similarly? (Former agent Bill Watters has been going on Winnipeg radio and saying to let him sit all summer long.)

 

[PsychoDad]

Yeah, 'cause every college UFA is just begging to come to Winnipeg right now. Promising discounts on their second contracts.

And how many agents don't use Overhardt's hardball tactics? The vast, vast majority. Do you think they'd care if the Jets respond to Overhardt similarly? (Former agent Bill Watters has been going on Winnipeg radio and saying to let him sit all summer long.)

This is some faulty logic. If you already have problems attracting talent you don't make it worse ******* around with players who don't want to play there for some reasons. Maybe its not Overhardt, maybe Trouba just really doesn't want to play in Winnipeg, we don't know it. Maybe they will make it work like Yzerman did with Drouin, but if they really would make him rot for a season or more - this would be terrible for the franchise long term, at least with the current management in place.

 

[Absurdity]

there are people on the jets boards think boston should add I don't. this was a bruin fan proposal at first also had mcquaid as a cap dump as part of deal. trouba will play 25 minutes right away. mcavoy is still 4 years behind trouba in devolpment. you need bodies now. more than fair deal.

Not even close to a fair deal.

If McQuaid and Burmistrov were added to the deal, I would probably do it.

I was the one who proposed that deal, Spooner + McAvoy + McQuaid for Trouba.

My line of thinking was mainly looking at the Bruins plan, which is to compete with their current core while developing prospects so they eventually make the main roster. There is no question that the Bruins need a top 4 D, and if the Bruins do end up trading for Trouba, they will most likely see him as a 1st-pairing defenseman. Trouba is 22 and is ready to play top-line minutes which fits the Bruins' plan short-term and long-term. I think McAvoy will be ready to make the Bruins next season but will need to use that season to get acclimated at the NHL level. It might not be until his 2nd or 3rd season in the NHL where McAvoy is ready to be a top 2/top 4 D. At that time, Bergeron will be 33/34, Krejci will be 32/33, Backes' most effective years of his contract may be wasted, and Marchand will be 30/31. With the addition of Trouba, the Bruins' core will still be in their prime years. The risk is that McAvoy could potentially be better than Trouba in the long run, but I think it's a risk worth taking since Trouba solves the Bruins problems now and in the future. Also, because of McAvoy's potential, I agree with wintersej that a piece like Burmistrov should be included on Winnipeg's side of the deal. A top 4 of:

Chara - Trouba
Krug - Carlo

is pretty good in my eyes. When Chara retires in 2 years, you hope someone like Zboril, Lauzon, or Lindgren is ready.

 

[Evil Little]

This is some faulty logic. If you already have problems attracting talent you don't make it worse ******* around with players who don't want to play there for some reasons. Maybe its not Overhardt, maybe Trouba just really doesn't want to play in Winnipeg, we don't know it. Maybe they will make it work like Yzerman did with Drouin, but if they really would make him rot for a season or more - this would be terrible for the franchise long term, at least with the current management in place.

I'm glad you're so concerned about the long-term health of the Winnipeg Jets. That's almost as sweet as the Chancellor's cleavage in your avatar.

Your argument seems to be that the Jets should trade him to whichever team he wants to play for, for whatever extras they happen to have on hand (like, McIlrath and a 2nd, which is what started this discussion) because that's a sign of 'good will' to future players. How is that any different from giving RFAs however much salary they want as a sign of 'good will' to future players.

For what it's worth, I'm sure it is Trouba, not Overhardt, who wants the trade. And if he really doesn't want to play for the Jets, I don't want him to play for the Jets.

But he's also not going to get traded for pennies on the dollar, because he doesn't have a contract and only wants to sign with a couple of different teams. Draftees don't get that leverage after their 3 year ELC. The CBA as written doesn't allow for it.

If he doesn't want to sign with the Jets his options are: sign an offer sheet with the danger of having it matched by the Jets (their right under the CBA) or he can simply not play. In the meantime he can wish upon a star that a team he wants to play for will pony up the necessary cost, or that the Jets are happy taking a garbage return.

If the return is of an equal value young defenceman, I'll fly to ****ing Detroit, rent a car, go his parents house, and drive him and the dog he's trying to turn into a social media star to the airport myself.

If the return is McIlrath and a 2nd, Trouba's regret is frankly more valuable to me at this point.

 

[Skiffer55]

Wouldn't want Krug for Trouba.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

(...)

Both of these trades have been discussed and agreed to by fans on both sides a few times now, making it all the more plausible.

(...)

The hubris of some HF members...

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

The whole team needs a rebuild

Obviously not.

 

[nmbr_24]

I'm glad you're so concerned about the long-term health of the Winnipeg Jets. That's almost as sweet as the Chancellor's cleavage in your avatar.

Your argument seems to be that the Jets should trade him to whichever team he wants to play for, for whatever extras they happen to have on hand (like, McIlrath and a 2nd, which is what started this discussion) because that's a sign of 'good will' to future players. How is that any different from giving RFAs however much salary they want as a sign of 'good will' to future players.

For what it's worth, I'm sure it is Trouba, not Overhardt, who wants the trade. And if he really doesn't want to play for the Jets, I don't want him to play for the Jets.

But he's also not going to get traded for pennies on the dollar, because he doesn't have a contract and only wants to sign with a couple of different teams. Draftees don't get that leverage after their 3 year ELC. The CBA as written doesn't allow for it.

If he doesn't want to sign with the Jets his options are: sign an offer sheet with the danger of having it matched by the Jets (their right under the CBA) or he can simply not play. In the meantime he can wish upon a star that a team he wants to play for will pony up the necessary cost, or that the Jets are happy taking a garbage return.

If the return is of an equal value young defenceman, I'll fly to ****ing Detroit, rent a car, go his parents house, and drive him and the dog he's trying to turn into a social media star to the airport myself.

If the return is McIlrath and a 2nd, Trouba's regret is frankly more valuable to me at this point.

I really doubt anyone is going to offer an equal value young defenseman, they would just keep their own guy if they had a D to keep wouldn't they?

 

[PsychoDad]

I'm glad you're so concerned about the long-term health of the Winnipeg Jets. That's almost as sweet as the Chancellor's cleavage in your avatar.

Your argument seems to be that the Jets should trade him to whichever team he wants to play for, for whatever extras they happen to have on hand (like, McIlrath and a 2nd, which is what started this discussion) because that's a sign of 'good will' to future players. How is that any different from giving RFAs however much salary they want as a sign of 'good will' to future players.

This is a textbook straw man argument right there. I'm saying letting an unwilling RFA rot for a season or more is going to do a long term damage to your franchise in regards of signing undrafted players or your own drafted guys going the college road much more than "showing it" to your players that they can't **** with the franchise and you write half a page of text about me saying you should deal him for the first offer that comes in. WPG just established a good relationship with players signing your core to long term contracts - not signing nor trading Trouba until the deadline in December (he can't play this year anymore if he signs later if I understand the CBA correctly) would be very detrimental to the relationship with the NHLPA and agents, regardless of what some has been hard ass agent said on some radio show.

If you want to talk trade value, you have to establish the number 1 rule - you are NOT getting an equal young player in return, especially in your specific position of need like LD. Even without considering the damaged trade value because of the whole situation WPG is in - Trouba will already be seen a difficult player with character issues so why deal for him if you need to give your own player of same quality without said issues? The only way it's balanced out if you take on a garbage contract or add a good prospect or high draft picks.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Wouldn't want Krug for Trouba.

Yeah i doubt that Chevy wants another smallish D man on the leftside it's already pretty small as it is.

 

[Evil Little]

I really doubt anyone is going to offer an equal value young defenseman, they would just keep their own guy if they had a D to keep wouldn't they?

They likely wouldn't, but there are many reasons they may prefer Trouba.

This is a textbook straw man argument right there. I'm saying letting an unwilling RFA rot for a season or more is going to do a long term damage to your franchise in regards of signing undrafted players or your own drafted guys going the college road much more than "showing it" to your players that they can't **** with the franchise and you write half a page of text about me saying you should deal him for the first offer that comes in. WPG just established a good relationship with players signing your core to long term contracts - not signing nor trading Trouba until the deadline in December (he can't play this year anymore if he signs later if I understand the CBA correctly) would be very detrimental to the relationship with the NHLPA and agents, regardless of what some has been hard ass agent said on some radio show.

If you want to talk trade value, you have to establish the number 1 rule - you are NOT getting an equal young player in return, especially in your specific position of need like LD. Even without considering the damaged trade value because of the whole situation WPG is in - Trouba will already be seen a difficult player with character issues so why deal for him if you need to give your own player of same quality without said issues? The only way it's balanced out if you take on a garbage contract or add a good prospect or high draft picks.

Nope, not a strawman argument.

The post you initially responded to was:

After reading this article, Dylan McIlrath and a 2nd round pick for Jacob Trouba seems more appropriate.

If this is the offer then I'd be delighted to let Trouba ****ing rot in the KHL.

Any time an RFA got ideas we could sing them the song of Trouba. Like The Rains of Castamere.

If...

Notice that the statement of mine that you took such objection to was conditional.

Hence my discussing the condition.

I understand your argument that, long-term, accommodating players public wishes can make playing for the Jets seem more enticing. I disagree that it is a meaningful amount and think that the CBA restrictions on RFAs do exponentially more to entice young players to play for certain teams.

And so, while I understand your argument I did make one assumption for you: I'm also expecting that you only believe believe the benefits of making Trouba happy can go so far. If you're trading one of your most important players in order to make him happy and get some 'good will capital' with the rest of the NHLPA membership, that good will only has a certain value in a trade.

And it doesn't come close to filling the gap between Trouba and McIlrath + 2nd.

 

[vipernsx]

Believe that if you like, but if Chevy was willing to accept 10 cents on the dollar for trouba....it would of happened 100 times over by now. Your offer isn't even in the right stratosphere.

Not even remotely close

"The standoff between Kyle Turris and the Phoenix Coyotes was taken up a notch Thursday.

Kurt Overhardt, the agent for the unsigned center, confirmed that Turris has asked the Coyotes for a trade."
....
If he wants to play in the NHL this season, he will re-sign with us. We will not trade his rights under any circumstances

Read on about Turris....

Kurt Overhardt, agent for unsigned Winnipeg defenceman Jacob Trouba, released a statement Friday indicating his client wants to be traded.

Read on about Trouba...

I believe it took 19 games before Turris signed. Maloney received many offers though wasn't willing to make a trade until after the player signed, this way he could show he won. Six games after signing, Turris was dealt for a defensive prospect who'd fallen out of favor with his second team and a 2nd round pick, essentially pennies on the dollar.

Based on what's happened previously, with the same mastermind orchestrating the situation, I believe it's reasonable to expect that the Jets are going to end up losing Trouba for a lot less then what he's worth.

 

[pierre gagnon*]

Looks like a difficult thing for the bruins to get Trouba. Fowler may be a better target and trading partner. Carlo is fitting is very well in the mean time. Bruins drafted some good Dee talent the last few yrs, contrary to what the Canadian media thinks.