Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

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Edgelord

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An aside: I love alpacas :laugh:
HAHAHAHA, I'm leaving it that way cuz its too funny
Alpha chad alpaca isn't too happy you called him a sadist lol

1707279440629.png

We agree that there are negative traits in extreme masculinity but where we disagree is I feel those traits may not be needed now, but when times get bad, we all kinda have to get a lil chaddy so to speak. In my mind its like buying a new car and throwing your tools away, you may not need them now but when shit hits the fan, those tools will save you.
 
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SnowblindNYR

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It is literally called - and an article and study about - toxic masculinity. Like many other studies and articles, and like the experiences that unfortunately far far too many people have experienced.

But it's ok, I totally understand why people deny reality. Carry on.

Isn't that just how you define it? Seems like "toxic masculinity" rather than the aforementioned sadism is defined that way because certain factions of society decided they want to demonize men. Not every bad thing men do is an example of masculinity. For some reason this is accepted when it comes to extremism in religion but not masculinity.
 
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Musampa

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The trend in the world is from "women and black people have no rights" to "being a man means you're a rapist and being white means you're a racist." Can we ensure that everyone is judged equally, regardless of gender, race, nationality or religion? Please…
 
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Pink Mist

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Jan 11, 2009
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Is a thread about a gang sexual assault really the place to discuss your favourite sports movies or boxing in a thread? Pretty immature and gross to do so, in my opinion. Disappointing too that the mods encouraged and participated in it.

I would suggest looking at many of the off-topic threads, the entertainment forum, or the boxing forum if you want to talk those subjects. I don't think this is the place.
 

I am toxic

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Further to the topic at hand, Westhead asked about whether London Police will be investigated for their handling of the first investigation.

Either the police are being investigated, or it remains on the table, since the response was no comment .



Does Western Uni fall under their jurisdiction? If so, all the more reason this would need to be investigated.

Remember those posts bleating that it is just about this one incident? (And then deflect away over and over and over again, and deny basic reality?)

Turns out this case involves institutions like Hockey Canada, the NHL, the London Police who are probably not alone given what we found out about the RCMP, tens of millions dollsrs of littles kids hockey fees in hush money spanning a couple decades, likely millions more to victim-smearing law firms to cover things up, cancellation of sponsorships, parliamentary hearings.

And of course many already knew that hockey has a toxic culture of denial, nontransparency, toxic masculinity, blacklisting, codes of silence, just to name a few of the elements promoting rape enabling culture backed by gutless so- called journalists, millions for hush funds, and complicity in key institutions at the highest levels.

I suppose it is - certainly not silver - a bronze or tin lining in the clouds that now any casual observer following these developments is now also fully aware, and those abhorrent deflections and denials are gradually marginalized even further, sputtering to a long overdue demise.
 

Edgelord

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What if Luke Skywalker shows up with his lightsaber?

Honestly your hypotheticals and devils advocate stuff has been exhausting to read. It's bordering on sealioning.
sealioning?
who comes up with this stuff?
Can I say I'm hippopotamusing? why hippopotamusing? thats because I fart in your general direction good sir!
 
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Edgelord

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TIL. The origin is great.
oh wow, its a thing, but it really seems like something a person who has no logical argument would come up with.
All the examples of "sealioning" I have seen is when someone refuses to answer a simple question because it destroys their whole argument.

the new dance is sealioning met with gaslighting met with sealioning and rinse repeat
literally, the blueprint for any government hearing I've seen, going back to the 60's lol
No idea they had a term for it tho

But back to the poster who said I was sealioning, I feel I was more using a version of the Socratic method to induce thoughtful discussion
 
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Uncle Rotter

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The one thing I will say is Cal Foote's agent at the time (still?) needs to be investigated by the NHL to determine whether he knowingly or unwittingly lied about his client's involvement.
He's still listed on his website
 
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Seanaconda

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You know who's the biggest critic of the idea of alphas and betas? The guy who presented the paper on it and coined the terms. Everybody I've met that feels the need to label themselves as an "alpha" are the most insecure people I've ever known and are dog shit the moment things get tough.
Calling yourself an alpha is the most cuck thing in the world so
 

Chips

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Aug 19, 2015
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Toxic masculinity is a myth and should stop being used in the continued attempts to demonize masculinity as some sort of abnormal trait and is inherently evil. Masculinity is healthy, displays strength of character, assertive. conducive to productivity, caring and loving.

It's the behavior that is toxic which can also be present with women displaying awful behavior. But it is never described as "toxic femininity".

The 5 men charged and what they are being accused is shameful, awful and criminal behavior that good human beings don't display. It has zero to do with masculinity.
It’s real even if the term is overused or misused.


The very real and fairly persistent (in some areas of life more than others) mindset that leads to stuff like, say, memes with some random tool or part of an engine or something. Something traditionally (often arbitrarily) defined as masculine

Accompanied by words like “if your boyfriend doesn’t know what this is, you have a girlfriend”

That’s a serious mindset many men have and barely a joke for many of them.


Arbitrarily defining certain stuff or activities as masculine or not, then dictating that men should like this, or ridiculing them for not doing that is toxic and definitely a thing, and that’s just one aspect of it.


With women, usually it’s like a girl power thing if she wants to wear a suit instead of a dress, no makeup (confidence), work a traditionally “manly” job etc etc


A woman happening to have the highest paying job in the household is increasingly fine.

While in some parts of the country, a part time working or stay at home dad can still be ridiculed as not manly or “not doing the man’s job in the family”. Man’s gotta know this or that or he’s useless


Belittling men or especially boys (still trying to figure out who they are) for basically doing their own thing and not fitting the traditional mold, pressuring to be who you want them to be.


imo it’s annoying and often incredibly rude between two adults, but worse between boys or often adult men trying to “mold” boys via abuse or just awful advice


In sports, especially if that sport is treated like gods locally as opposed to something like golf; the stereotypical alpha douche mindset that you gotta act a certain way is real. I’ve literally seen guys questioned behind their back if they’re gay because they weren’t trying to f*** with girls constantly.

It’s exactly the kind of thing that can peer pressure someone into sketchy sexual situations (especially combined with alcohol, which also were not true douche bros if you’re not pounding beers )
 
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Lshap

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It is literally called - and an article and study about - toxic masculinity. Like many other studies and articles, and like the experiences that unfortunately far far too many people have experienced.

But it's ok, I totally understand why people deny reality. Carry on.
"Toxic masculinity" is just a trite slogan, nothing more. It doesn't address the real problem; it satisfies people who are looking for a group to blame.
 
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Silky Johnson

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Yeah, so this is like when we discussed the Flames initial response last week.

Obviously the bigger sin by far is the allegation of sexual abuse, but this just sounds terrible.

"Not participating in a sexual assault" is not the same as "a lucky bounce".

He was told not to comment (by whom is not said) - he should have stuck with that advice.
The bigger problem here seams to be peoples (yours included) comprehension skills.

He is clearly not equating those things. He is pre-supposing not participating (I think) regardless of being in the country, but saying that it is lucky he was not in the country and therefore above the suspicion that he would have been under for just being on the team & in the country - regardless of guilt. That very likely was lucky if he would have been there had he not had another commitment.

I will repeat the important parts.

He is not saying he is lucky to not have been there because it stopped him from being in the position to rape someone. That would be very weird and somewhat self incriminating thing to say.

He is very clearly saying he is lucky to have had a prior commitment that kept him out of the last year plus of speculation, that would have been difficult and damaging if he was at the event and had not participated at all. That is indeed lucky and I ( and any sane person) would feel the same way.

It also should be noted that he had apparently cooperated with the investigation and has not tried to downplay the allegations.
 

Lshap

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Toxic masculinity 100% exists. Just look at frat bro culture. That's 100% toxic shit right there.
Toxic behaviour certainly does exist, obviously. But labelling acts like spitting and physical violations as a kind of 'masculinity' is dumb. Dehumanizing behaviour goes way deeper than gender stereotypes, into a whole other level of pathology.
 
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Statto

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Slap Shot > Youngblood
Both films I love, both films have terrible acting performances from Lowe, Swayze, Newman and even the little work Reeves did. Latter was good as Chadwick and I had a thing for Cynthia Gibb.

The high spots in Slapshot were great but some of the dialogue was a yawn fest. Youngblood was pretty poorly produced and the script was ‘meh’. Don’t get me wrong I love both but thats because I love hockey, if I didn’t they offered little. Hence they had limited success.

Just saying.

Unfortunately though both do a good job of portraying hockey culture… the misogyny side of it, probably the upside of that side of it too.
 
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Primary Assist

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I skimmed it and again this is a situation where current cultural rules and the realities don't jive.
Things like this are only ever an issue when things are going well, when hard times hit, ie war, famine etc those notions of toxic masculinity disappear
like really, your family is in danger and you have 2 choices, an alpha chad or a beta bill, who you picking?????
Oh give me Beta Ray Bill any day. If he can protect a planet he can protect my hypothetical daughter.
 
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Edgelord

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watched Rush again last night, such a good movie!!!!
now I am all pumped up to race mini z's tonight lol
 
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Garo

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Toxic behaviour certainly does exist, obviously. But labelling acts like spitting and physical violations as a kind of 'masculinity' is dumb. Dehumanizing behaviour goes way deeper than gender stereotypes, into a whole other level of pathology.
No that's not how it works, and you are mixing things up here. Toxic behaviour does go deeper, but here it repurposes standard stereotypes as a way to regulate gender relations. It is not the act of being masculine in itself that is a problem.

But using gender in a way that ostracize and encourages violence absolutely exists and is definitely toxic. It just happens to target men more as it pushes them to gain back power and authority. Having an accurate and specific term for the problem makes sense.
 
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