First Impressions of St. Louis

[Kokoschka]

so, I see this board is kinda split up between "I love it" and "OMG Sather sucks". How do you feel about the trade. Poll incoming.

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[Samuel Culper III]

Like it. Voting as such. Don't "love it", but I like it. It's not ideal, but it's better than signing Cally at 6+

 

[Brief Candle]

I am more in the "not sure" camp, but I most certainly don't like what we gave up + Cally for a "win now" rental.

 

[Kokoschka]

Like it. Voting as such. Don't "love it", but I like it. It's not ideal, but it's better than signing Cally at 6+

Yeah, I was to lazy to do 5 options, so I just summed up positive/leaning positive and negative/leaning negative.

 

[shoves]

It's not St. Louis that i dislike. Its the softness of this team which increased when we part with Cally. Glen has to get some grit into this team the next hours, or im afraid this trade wont be as effective as it couldve been.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Like it a lot. Yzerman got as close to a fair deal as he could have but it was our best option as well. I'll just throw in a couple weird disparate bullet points.

-We didn't lose players like Miller, Skjei, Allen, McIlrath and Fast who can help the team we're trying to build.

-Rick Nash is a very good player. I don't have any faith in him being "the guy" on a contending team.

-We're not getting screwed on contract length with Marty because he's not going to ask for a four year deal when this one is out.

-There's still a bit of a weak spot at center. I think without Cally there's a grit deficit too. Still, this team has a ton of depth and a ton of top-end talent. There is enough wiggle room to balance it up a bit.

 

[Kokoschka]

Like it a lot. Yzerman got as close to a fair deal as he could have but it was our best option as well. I'll just throw in a couple weird disparate bullet points.

-We didn't lose players like Miller, Skjei, Allen, McIlrath and Fast who can help the team we're trying to build.

-Rick Nash is a very good player. I don't have any faith in him being "the guy" on a contending team.

-We're not getting screwed on contract length with Marty because he's not going to ask for a four year deal when this one is out.

-There's still a bit of a weak spot at center. I think without Cally there's a grit deficit too. Still, this team has a ton of depth and a ton of top-end talent. There is enough wiggle room to balance it up a bit.

Great minds think alike. I made the same point in the "Trade Confirmed" thread. I agree with your stance on Nash as well.

I really wonder now what we're going to do with Richards in the offseason.

 

[LORENZO]

Love it, can't wait to see him in blue tonight.

 

[Ail]

The price was high for a guy who only wanted the Rangers. Steve Y had leverage because he knew Sather wanted him for this year just as much as next. People forget that this is Glen Sather and he wants to win now. If you have to relinquish your own ideals for this team and do things the Glen Sather way, what kind of rental would YOU bring in? How about one of the highest scoring players since the second lockout on a great deal and with a whole year left after this one?

Of all the things Sather could have traded a 1st, and a second, or two late 1sts for, this among one of the best things considering what is out there. Could he have packaged two firsts and maybe a younger roster player to acquire another young, high impact roster player? Maybe, we can't know that for sure.

All in all this is a typical Sather move, but I don't see it as one of his worst by a long shot.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Don't love dealing those picks, but man...I am excited.

 

[Crease]

Haven't been this excited to watch a regular season game in a while.

 

[pld459666]

I like it.

The condition on the 2nd rounder in 2014 bothers me, but we retain all of the heart and hustle that Cally displayed and improved the overall talent a great deal.

In 45 games since Stamkos got hurt, all MSL did as the only real option down there in TB is score 45 points and keep that team in PO contention.

Will he be winning scoring titles? probably not. But he will post better numbers than Callahan and will be cheaper doing it.

I also heard rumblings that he wants to play beyond this contract? if he's posting 60+ points next season, I sign him for an additional 2 years at 5 per.

 

[Clausewitz]

Love having St. Louis but am iffy about the price we paid to get him. Losing an excellent shot-blocker and penalty-killer might hurt our GAA. Callahan is on page for a 36-point, 65-game season, which means assuming a constant production rate, he should contribute to another 11 goals. St. Louis, meanwhile, is on page for an 82-point, 82-game season, which means, assuming a constant production rate, he should contribute to another 20 goals over our remaining 20 games.

Therefore: we paid two high-round picks and Callahan in exchange for an additional nine goals this season (and presumably more offense thereafter). Considering we have 20 games to go, St. Louis should contribute to an additional 9 goals / 20 games = 0.45 goals per game, which would bring us to 3.00 goals / game for the remainder of the season, or seventh in the league in scoring (we are currently 19th), other things equal.

* Addendum: if the above holds, we should finish the season with: (20g/82g)*3.00GFA + (62g/82g)*2.55GFA = 2.58GFA, which would actually keep is in 19th. Detroit (2.59GFA) occupies 18th; the Isles hold 2.66GFA at 17th.

The constant production assumption is a simplification, of course, but this back of the envelope calculation shows how much this trade could improve our team. This trade could have tremendous implications. It's a bit early to hate or love it; I suppose it just depends on the time horizon of one's analysis.

Sources:
- NHL.com
- ESPN Player page - Ryan Callahan
- ESPN Player page - Martin St. Louis

 

[haveandare]

Really like it. Don't quite love it.

Some thoughts:

1. As I said a few times earlier about this possibility - if you get a chance to get a star player, and MSL is a star player, for a low price (this was a low price considering IMO) due to nothing but circumstance, you need to take it.

2. Callahan's demands were insane, and as much as he ushered in a new wave of NYR hockey, you can't let nostalgia dictate the future. 6+ for 6 with nmc is just too much with all the unknowns about the future cap and all.

3. NYR has got to get that first back before next year's draft. Hopefully a youngster will push someone out and they can be sent packing for that first.

4. What does this do for Fast? Can he play both wings? Can Nash shift? Can Zucc shift? Can someone who hasn't had luck shifting earlier do it better with a guy like St Louis on the other side?

5. Like someone else said, they managed to lose a heart and soul captain and get a heart and soul captain. Heart transplant. Good outcome considering Cally needed to go.

I look forward to hearing about how Cally should have been traded for some 1C prospect that was never in play. I agree that should have been chased but who knows what the actual open options were?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Love it from a pure roster and excitement perspective. I LOVE MSL, lol. Respectable vet and proven playoff performer. Ageless wonder, all around beast player.

It REALLY stings to give up these picks, but I like our prospect depth right now, and I do have faith in Gordie's late round drafting. He gets plenty of good prospects late.

Frankly I think this team is a legit contender in the east with this move.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Really like it. Don't quite love it.

Some thoughts:

1. As I said a few times earlier about this possibility - if you get a chance to get a star player, and MSL is a star player, for a low price (this was a low price considering IMO) due to nothing but circumstance, you need to take it.

2. Callahan's demands were insane, and as much as he ushered in a new wave of NYR hockey, you can't let nostalgia dictate the future. 6+ for 6 with nmc is just too much with all the unknowns about the future cap and all.

3. NYR has got to get that first back before next year's draft. Hopefully a youngster will push someone out and they can be sent packing for that first.

4. What does this do for Fast? Can he play both wings? Can Nash shift? Can Zucc shift? Can someone who hasn't had luck shifting earlier do it better with a guy like St Louis on the other side?

5. Like someone else said, they managed to lose a heart and soul captain and get a heart and soul captain. Heart transplant. Good outcome considering Cally needed to go.

I look forward to hearing about how Cally should have been traded for some 1C prospect that was never in play. I agree that should have been chased but who knows what the actual open options were?

Perhaps MSL could shift, he can play LW I'm pretty sure. Try MSL-Stepan-Nash hehe.

Nah, I'd like to go with Nash/MSL/Zucc all on different lines. We'd have three lines with top notch offensive catalysts.

 

[Vitto79]

the way I see it MSL has this yr, next plus he will sign another 2 yrs or so. They are trying to win the Cup and that's the whole point in playing the game so guys like Henrik and Nash have to be excited.

 

[beef 4 lunch]

Not only does this benefit the compete level of the team but i suspect that many players will benefit from playing with MSL and/or having him draw top pairing defenders.

Edit: We just added our best player. Funny to let that sink in.

 

[Inferno]

for today, its a great deal, for tomorrow its a horrendous deal.

it basically becomes a loss if we dont with the cup within a few years, its a win if we do.

tough to go all in on a 38 year old.

 

[Zamboner]

for today, its a great deal, for tomorrow its a horrendous deal.

I disagree. The alternative tomorrow was paying Cally $6M for 6 years. That messes up the team exponentially more than a lost pick.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

I disagree. The alternative tomorrow was paying Cally $6M for 6 years. That messes up the team exponentially more than a lost pick.

There were other alternatives, this was not the only path.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I disagree. The alternative tomorrow was paying Cally $6M for 6 years. That messes up the team exponentially more than a lost pick.

With the Boomer rumor coming so early in the game, I'm not sure how close we ever really were with Callahan.

The alternative was picking up assets for Cally. We'll see what the first tier guys like Vanek and Gabby go for - I don't think the rental market's all that hot this year, and in any case I think the best pieces the contending teams are willing to part with wouldn't have come our way.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

so, I see this board is kinda split up between "I love it" and "OMG Sather sucks". How do you feel about the trade. Poll incoming.

I am somewhere in the middle, closer to the Sather sucks side.

Typical is the word I'd use. Its a big-ticket acquisition that will get the fanbase excited, but by and large I dont think its a move that will put the team over the top in any sense. Its a sugar high, basically.

 

[beef 4 lunch]

for today, its a great deal, for tomorrow its a horrendous deal.

it basically becomes a loss if we dont with the cup within a few years, its a win if we do.

tough to go all in on a 38 year old.

Thats a bold statement. I would argue that there is nothing that could have been done with Cally that would be the difference between a cup and no cup either now or in the future.

 

[OverTheCap]

I am somewhere in the middle, closer to the Sather sucks side.

Typical is the word I'd use. Its a big-ticket acquisition that will get the fanbase excited, but by and large I dont think its a move that will put the team over the top in any sense. Its a sugar high, basically.

That's how I feel. Typical Sather move. And in all likelihood the end result will be what it typically has for the Rangers and their fans - yet another year with no cup.