First 10 Games: HF Leafs' Impressions

[zeke]

As of this post they are tied fir 1st overall, now that won't last past tomorrow unless the Bruins VS Capitals is postponed and nobody wants that

But right now they are right there and that deserves an A

They're in a 4 way tie for 7th-10th at the moment.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

Anybody know why we suck 5v5? I thought it was depth but even the top 2 lines are underwhelming.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Having to tolerate people explaining away losses last year with good stats and then do the opposite this year is really a bit much.
The team is 7,2,1 and we already have absurd ideas of trading our number #1 defenseman. There is more fuel here than anyone on the main boards could hope for. Just come to the leaf forum for reasons to bash the team. Stick to criticizing bad game performances instead of finding reasons to dump on the team's overall skill. This place is such a downer sometimes. Completely saw this coming with this poll
#Hottakessuck

Perhaps if you calm down and read this thread again you'll see that that's exactly what people not giving this team an A at this point are saying - the team is stacked with skill but they haven't shown it on the ice yet. Our play at even strength has been waaaaaaay below expectations for a team with skill to burn and one of the softest 10 game stretches in team history to start the season.

The point of this thread is to discuss our impressions of this team's performance, not to wave pom-poms. If it bothers you that not everyone is as impressed as you seem to be then feel free to stay away from this discussion and start a pom-pom waving thread instead.

 

[Burnie97]

Anybody know why we suck 5v5? I thought it was depth but even the top 2 lines are underwhelming.

It seems that way. They can certainly score more at 5 vs 5 but they're playing better team D and that's possibly part of it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Anybody know why we suck 5v5? I thought it was depth but even the top 2 lines are underwhelming.

I thought our top 2 lines have been good so far. At least I though someone posted the numbers and they were good, not 100% sure though.

 

[nsleaf]

There doing pretty good so far.

 

[Notsince67]

Perhaps if you calm down and read this thread again you'll see that that's exactly what people not giving this team an A at this point are saying - the team is stacked with skill but they haven't shown it on the ice yet. Our play at even strength has been waaaaaaay below expectations for a team with skill to burn and one of the softest 10 game stretches in team history to start the season.

The point of this thread is to discuss our impressions of this team's performance, not to wave pom-poms. If it bothers you that not everyone is as impressed as you seem to be then feel free to stay away from this discussion and start a pom-pom waving thread instead.

Usually you judge the effectiveness of a team by watching their games...not cherry picking stats from other teams to render a judgement. It is quite easy to see that plenty of folks here prefer to opine over watching their team.

The leafs have had great flashes of 5x5 play. They get buried in the stats from bad periods. As for their schedule...another dumb hot take. It has been grueling and anybody who thinks NHL teams dominate from 1st game to last game and then win the cup, knows nothing about this game.
I've seen you post a lot of things here, yet you offer up nothing but naval gazing criticism after criticism. Wasnt it you that said you don't care how marner plays as long as he excels in the playoffs. You completely hedge your desire to withhold praise when things go well and pile on to every criticism with another.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

They're in a 4 way tie for 7th-10th at the moment.

They are tied in points for 1st overall that's a fact, that is likely to change tomorrow but that's a fact

 

[Mess]

After 10 games Leafs are +5 games over .500 with 15 points which is good.

The standings are as expected for me with Toronto and Montreal battling for spot 1-2 in the Northern Div.

Leafs are playing better defensively this year and are sitting at +4 goal differential this year playing in a lot of close 1 goal game that they're coming out on top of, but numerous that could have gone either way with games tied in the 3rd and a late PP goal being the difference maker.

Goal differential is often a good indicator of a teams performance. Montreal has a +15 goal diff and -1 point behind the Leafs in standings, making their results in the W-L column more secure.

Leafs PP is saving them somewhat at this point as 13 of 30 GF has come on the PP, which means even strength 5v5 offense is lagging as 13 of their 29 goals against have come while SH matching their PP performance and making that a wash overall.

 

[ottomaddox]

Some people are really having a tough time understanding why some of us might not be satisfied with the team squeaking out wins against bad teams thanks mostly to a red hot PP.

Explain it to us then.

Just so you know a lot of championships have been won by 1 goal and "squeeked out" moments.

You can probably look no further than Keefe for this phenomenon.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Some people are really having a tough time understanding why some of us might not be satisfied with the team squeaking out wins against bad teams thanks mostly to a red hot PP.

I know why there are so many close games because Keefe has spoken to it already. The PP has been hot as a firecracker but there are lot’s of teams still showing unsustainably high powerplay numbers.
Keefe wants them to stop losing their pace when they have a lead and they have had leads much of their games.
The priority is defensive play from day one Keefe explained. The players have bought in fully but are taking something off of their offensive game and are playing cautiously a bit to much.
Thats been identified and Keefe will be keeping plugging away with the team trying to find the right mix of offense and defense in how they think the game.
This is the mental stuff we always talk about that makes the difference between good team and a high quality team. Matthews mentioned himself in a interview that they have some periods their line backs off to much and he wants to improve it.
The process to this point nonetheless has garnered a .750 win % and thats a perfect start. We have a decent defensive team to this point. I’ll take the close ones.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Usually you judge the effectiveness of a team by watching their games...not cherry picking stats from other teams to render a judgement. It is quite easy to see that plenty of folks here prefer to opine over watching their team.

I go mostly by what I see but I don't mind stats either. IMHO the people with the most accurate opinions are the ones who do both.

What stats from other teams have I cherry-picked?

The leafs have had great flashes of 5x5 play. They get buried in the stats from bad periods. As for their schedule...another dumb hot take. It has been grueling and anybody who thinks NHL teams dominate from 1st game to last game and then win the cup, knows nothing about this game.
I've seen you post a lot of things here, yet you offer up nothing but naval gazing criticism after criticism. Wasnt it you that said you don't care how marner plays as long as he excels in the playoffs. You completely hedge your desire to withhold praise when things go well and pile on to every criticism with another.

They've had good periods and they've had bad periods. I've seen every minute of every game but it seems like for you, maybe the bad periods are buried somewhere as you seem to be angry at people noticing just how mediocre we've been at even strength overall.

Hot take my ass - the schedule and the division is the easiest it's ever been. How can you possibly not see that?

I've said I will judge everyone on the team (not just Marner) mostly by how they do in the playoffs. I said it before last season started and I feel the same way about this season. I think most of us just dying to have some success in the playoffs but if that's not you, that's fine. Problem?

 

[zeke]

They are tied in points for 1st overall that's a fact, that is likely to change tomorrow but that's a fact

That is a fact.

But it's also a fact that they are tied in 7th-10th for best records in the league.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I know why there are so many close games because Keefe has spoken to it already. The PP has been hot as a firecracker but there are lot’s of teams still showing unsustainably high powerplay numbers.
Keefe wants them to stop losing their pace when they have a lead and they have had leads much of their games.
The priority is defensive play from day one Keefe explained. The players have bought in fully but are taking something off of their offensive game and are playing cautiously a bit to much.
Thats been identified and Keefe will be keeping plugging away with the team trying to find the right mix of offense and defense in how they think the game.
This is the mental stuff we always talk about that makes the difference between good team and a high quality team. Matthews mentioned himself in a interview that they have some periods their line backs off to much and he wants to improve it.
The process to this point nonetheless has garnered a .750 win % and thats a perfect start. We have a decent defensive team to this point. I’ll take the close ones.

Well I wouldn't say it's a perfect start, it's not bad though. Always nice to chalk up wins when you're a work in progress and it's good that the players and the coach realize there is lots of room for improvement and are working on it.

Agree that the mental stuff is so often the difference maker, from where I sit that was the difference between us and Boston in the playoffs. We were right there with them in both years but both times, they just pulled away from us at the end and left us in their dust so to speak, hopefully this is the year we get a playoff series win under our belts, then get some confidence and win another one and get some more confidence ...

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Well I wouldn't say it's a perfect start, it's not bad though. Always nice to chalk up wins when you're a work in progress and it's good that the players and the coach realize there is lots of room for improvement and are working on it.

Agree that the mental stuff is so often the difference maker, from where I sit that was the difference between us and Boston in the playoffs. We were right there with them in both years but both times, they just pulled away from us at the end and left us in their dust so to speak, hopefully this is the year we get a playoff series win under our belts, then get some confidence and win another one and get some more confidence ...

Definitely. Boston was always the character team. So was Washington and so was Columbus. Our turn coming.

 

[Nineteen67]

After 10 games does this team look like it could contend for a Cup? I don’t think so.
They look and feel like they're still somewhere in between contending and firing the GM

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

That is a fact.

But it's also a fact that they are tied in 7th-10th for best records in the league.

Disagree. Depends how you look at it but for me the only thing that matters (for standings) is winning %. They are 4th.

 

[HarryLime]

I'm not really encouraged tbh. But it's not the season that matters for this group. They could finish 1st or 4th. If they lose the opening series, he coach and GM are gonzo alonzo. Marner has been the best Leaf, by far. Tavares got off to a hot start but looks slow as ever and not really making his presence felt. I'd like to face EDM/CGY in a series over MTL/WPG.

 

[Critical13]

After 10 games does this team look like it could contend for a Cup? I don’t think so.
They look and feel like they're still somewhere in between contending and firing the GM

I believe in little improvements, so I don't need every team to look like contenders. It's okay just to be better than last year.

With that being said, it's painful that we haven't shown a lot of progress. We are giving up fewer goals, which I can appreciate. However, we're also scoring less 5v5. So is that really improvement?

 

[ottomaddox]

That is a fact.

But it's also a fact that they are tied in 7th-10th for best records in the league.

I love when people ignore key pieces of information (like divisions) to save face.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I love when people ignore key pieces of information (like divisions) to save face.

We don’t have to worry about other divisions and we can’t play other divisions to have any comparisons head to head. We best everyone but Vancouver. Next

 

[Notsince67]

I believe in little improvements, so I don't need every team to look like contenders. It's okay just to be better than last year.

With that being said, it's painful that we haven't shown a lot of progress. We are giving up fewer goals, which I can appreciate. However, we're also scoring less 5v5. So is that really improvement?

5x5 OIGF/60 looks fine for Marner and Matthews
There has been a drop off for Tavares and Nylander. I just dont get blanket condemnations. We have 1 major line to fix a bit but saying that the whole team suffers at 5x5 offensive play just doesnt make sense to me.

 

[ottomaddox]

We don’t have to worry about other divisions and we can’t play other divisions to have any comparisons head to head. We best everyone but Vancouver. Next

Agreed. We can't do best in the NHL comparisons.

The eye test already tells us they are not quite a cup wielding team yet.

TOR just needs to qualify for the playoffs and be the best team they can be. Dubas needs to tinker a little before the trade deadline. They can't worry about how their record might compare to the best Central division teams etc.

 

[TakeTheBody]

I said A-. Division much easier this season. Grades now don't really mean much. I want A+ in the playoffs.

 

[Captain Crunch]

We're 10 games down in this shortened 56 game schedule, and since we've got another four days before the next Leafs puck drop, I figured we could give our overall impressions of the team so far here.

In net, I think when Campbell comes back our goaltending is solid and Andersen after struggling out of the gate, has been able to put us at ease with his play in the time since then. Hutchinson you don't really want to see him get a game, but we may be afforded no choice if we want Andersen to be as fresh as possible for the postseason. We'll just have to cross our fingers and hope he plays at least as well as he did in Winnipeg. It'd be a nice redemption story for him too. Obviously there's still the question of whether Andersen can be the better goaltender in a playoff series, but that's still a long way off.

On defense, this is the first time in a long time where I'm confident in the six men we're throwing out on the blueline. Unlike years past, there's no Ceci, Marincin, or Lebda level guy who you just dread hopping over the boards. Rielly is struggling to really get into a rythm, but I have faith he can find a better form given time. The right side of the defence, which has been plaguing us for years now seems to have finally been solidified with the additions Brodie and Bogosian, as well as the emergence of Holl (who arguably should've been on the roster sooner). It's a bit of a juggling act rotating guys in and out on defence, but it's a good problem to have honestly. We're no juggernaut defensively yet, but I think as the season goes along this defence corps will only get better.

Up front is surprisingly where we have issues. Thanks to untimely injuries to forwards Robertson and Thornton (say whatever you will about Thornton and his age, he and his line with Matthews and Marner were playing well before his injury) it's been a struggle finding the right chemistry on the left wing. Regardless, the Big Four are all still putting up points (even if half of that group could be giving more), and newcomers like Simmonds, Thornton (when healthy), and Boyd have contributed nicely. The fourth line has looked really good on some nights, and it feels like Keefe is closing in on a group/rotation he likes down there. Honestly it really is a shame Robertson got injured, I feel like he would thrive beside JT and Nylander, but alas.

As for the actual play, like many in and around the organization have stated, this team could be playing better. At least on paper they should be. There have been lots of times where this team has played below their capabilities 5 on 5, and haven't really dominated a game from beginning to end since the season started, the closest to that was the Winnipeg game. And while it's great that this team despite not playing up to their potential has managed to still get wins, we need to start seeing more games where this team is controlling and dominating the game, not just in spurts.

This time off to finally rest up and get some actual practice time in will hopefully go a long way to realizing that untapped potential.

I found this piece from mapleleafshotstove.com quite alarming:
This has been arguably the biggest element fuelling their hot start. They have 33 goals in total, with 13 of them coming with the man advantage, one overtime winner, and two empty netters. At 5v5, the Leafs have scored 17 goals and allowed 16 against. The underlying numbers are not particularly strong, either.
They rank 16th in team corsi at 50.8%, 20th in fenwick at 49.08%, their expected goals for percentage is 46.52% (23rd), and their high danger corsi percentage is 44.97 (25th). It suggests the Leafs aren’t only suffering from a lack of 5v5 production but overall shot quality control as well. They are struggling to create and sustain offense at 5v5 while giving up good chances the other way.

Is it a matter of our top two lines doing great, and our bottom two lines being bad, essentially the negative from our bottom six dragging down the positive from our top six? Personally, I don't think this is the case. I believe it still comes down to way too much money spent on 4 players leaving not enough to properly address our bottom six.