Still want him fired if no playoffs. Fair enough. It's not an opinion borne out of one or a handful of games.
#FIRECHIA
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Chet Manley
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IMO Toronto and Calgary rebounded quickly because they had promising young defence setup before their star forwards arrived. Similar to Chicago's rebuild with Keith and Seabrook being in place before acquiring Kane and Toews. Defenceman take longer and having them in place before the high pick forwards works out pretty well. Thankfully Calgary's forwards aren't Kane and Toews type talents and it'll stop them short of getting anywhere in the playoffs. AKA suck it Flames.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
The poster was mentioning that the Kings had obtained Carter and Richards. Carter, you may note, still plays with the Kings.
In anycase I would take the payoff in LA anyday. There never will be payoff in Philly in a badly run org that unloaded Brayden Schenn. The Flyers are a ship of fools. They've unloaded so much talent through the years and never benefit form any of it. What benefit is a player if the team is pathetic.
Kings just curb stomped the Flyers once again just pummeling them tonight.
The Kings being two time cup winners already and among the leaders in a conference. The Flyers are a big bag of nothing.
You're also completely stepping over the point that LA was already an established contender prior to the trades being made with Philly and CBJ. The defense was set, the goaltending was set and their offense just needed the veteran adds to push them over the top. We are in our infancy as a 'contending' hockey team. Getting Connor McDavid didn't suddenly establish us in 2015. Legwork was needed to turn that roster into a well-rounded, financially stable roster.
And again, the Carter trade was an even bigger win for Philly--getting Jake Voracek and Sean Couturier? I'm still talking to the same guys who said we got cleaned out in the Hall trade, right? Philly is laughing with the pieces they got from those trades still. Why? Because 'winning trades' doesn't necessarily equate to winning championships. Winning those requires you to build a well-rounded, competitive hockey team.
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BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
yeah, stupid Chia...how do you not have a plan for losing your #1 defenseman and starting goalie.......
I get the angst and all, but can you guys please stop acting like your Oilers have had their complete roster?
KeithIsActuallyBad
SPEEN!
The Oilers were only missing Sekera early on and were faltering hilariously so.
Besides the Reinhart deal, which deal in particular has harmed the long term team outlook?
Who cares about exciting? The Oilers needed lineup balance and better defense. McDavid and Drai aren't enough excitement? Puljujarvi? People don't pay to see Eberle, they pay to see McDavid. Furthermore, the Oilers don't need to hoard skilled players to keep a fanbase interested.
I can understand criticizing Chia for losing value in a trade or not addressing needs this offseason but to get on him for dealing players because they were exciting seems like an odd complaint especially considering that the Oilers have the most exciting player in the league.
booyakasha
Registered User
this is to answer UlysesJ and Belairs question from the other thread..
Up until this season, he basically had 4 straight seasons of Eberle level production so I think you're overstating how good the contract is in relation to his raw production. Hall is having a great season but he hadn't been a marquee player for a long time prior to this season.
FTR, I love watching the Devils play (seen them play in person twice this season), they might be my second favorite team as far as "must watch TV" is concerned so I have no bias against Hall and that team.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
Good reply, and believe me I get it. LA team was already being build out, just that they needed certain ingredients, and not others. I could get into more complexity on why they didn't need the two players they gave up. But they needed a Jeff Carter, the needed a Richards. I could be off on this but afairc they had also obtained Williams. Those are the types of quantities they required to build from where they were. So I understand the prototype involved, and can go into a lot more depth.
Know as well that I predicted the 2012 LA Kings SC W during the first round of their playoff series with the Vancouver Canucks. I knew that it was coming together at the best moment for that Kings team who had all kinds of confidence, belief, and the ingredients to get it done. I made that prediction on this board, and the LA board. I had an intimate understanding of that team, sometimes it happens.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
Fair comment good sir. But STILL, the NHL is an entertainment, and a gate driven league. You missed my point. The Oilers didn't need those entertainers at the gate, selling tickets here is next thing to guaranteed. But DEALING players that just happen to be prolific, productive, entertainers, to teams like Jersey, and NYI, OUGHT to have been able to engage more leverage.
I'm all about the art of the deal. Its not always that you are dealing from a position of weakness. If you're dealing quantities like Hall or Eberle I was just citing that theres more at work than JUST what the players bring on the ice. Some players are entertaining enough to sell tickets to. Both Jersey, and NYI happen to require that more, would love obtaining players like that and did. For them it was win win in so many ways. I wasn't being flippant when I said laughing all the way to the bank.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
A talent like Hall doesn't forget how to be a PPG player. The talent and ability doesn't typically evaporate. In some cases the competitive juices need to be fully awakened in better situations. But the thing is that better situation could have been here with McD, or Drai, or in Jersey. The Oilers were a team transformed. In effect the team was turning into a competive future that Taylor required to be at his best. Taylor Hall got eventually brought down by endless seasons of non competive hockey here. Because he is a competitor and winner, and spent too long in a situation where the team had no win prospects. But now the team did. That's where we differ.
I agree that the losing got to him, I was just posting in response to you saying that his contract is the best in the league relative to production. It really isn't when you look at his numbers the 4 seasons prior to this one, his production was remarkably similar to Eberle's actually.
He's an elite possession player but he hasn't been an elite scorer for many years up until this season and it's not like he has played with junk linemates. I've always felt like his production didn't match up with his talent outside of those two high level scoring seasons.
The thing is that the Devils and Islanders needed those players a lot more than the Oilers did. With Draisaitl taking on a more prominent role and Puljujarvi close to making the NHL jump, it made those players expendable.
It can be argued that Chia should have gotten a pick in addition to Larsson to get Hall but I still feel that the Oilers need a Larsson a lot more than they need a Hall.
The Eberle trade was almost entirely cap driven to free up cap space for the potential Draisaitl offer sheet (as faint as that possibility was) and potential trade deadline acquisitions and I still maintain that Eberle quietly requested a trade. Chia probably figured that the combination of Puljujarvi and Strome would make up for the loss of Eberle's production and to be honest, it's not far off. Still doesn't excuse the lack of value he got in return for Eberle though, no argument there.
Isn't this a little petty?
A waiver wire claim (more than one team wanted him) that was designed to shake up the complacency of the bottom 6.
Seems to have worked.
Are we going to count the Davidson claim as a success then?
Let's be real here. We're not making the playoffs. It's not happening. We have to play at a winning % of around 60-65 to get into the wild card...This years team does not have the mental fortitude to do so. They have been playing better, but the hole is much too big to climb out of.
Chia did not address any issues on the fly. He's let a season go down the drain because of it. #firechia
Chia did not address any issues on the fly. He's let a season go down the drain because of it. #firechia
It's not going to happen. He'll probably get a chance to make a coaching change first. If that doesn't work then maybe the spotlight will turn to him.
CantHaveTkachev
Cap Space > NHL players
CantHaveTkachev
Cap Space > NHL players
because they weren't working hard enough or smart enough
funny what a little hard work can do
yababy
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Trafalgar Sadge Law
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How do the Hall and Eberle trades not harm the Oilers long term? Taylor Hall is the franchise player on a team with a very good shot at making the playoffs and should basically destroy any notion that the dude's a loser or whatever. Adam Larsson is a good player, but not the type of player that can tilt the ice in a way someone like Taylor Hall can, and goes as far as the rest of the team goes. Jordan Eberle is better than Ryan Strome at every aspect of hockey and even in his worst season last year, he still bested Ryan Strome's most productive season. One of the Oilers' main issues has been scoring from our wingers which is why we're rumored to be paying out the *** for Mike Hoffman, a Jordan Eberle level player. You know what would have been easier than acquiring Hoffman? Keeping Eberle. Moreover, even if Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle weren't in the Oilers long-term plans, trading them for less than what they're worth means we can no longer use them as bargaining chips.
Losing trades to "fill needs" is fine when you're making minor moves, not when moving franchise cornerstone pieces. You never know when a player is going to go down to injury, or a player is going to break out. You trade key wingers for lesser players to fill a need, and all the sudden in 2 years time, you franchise's weakness is scoring off the wing. Heck, like another poster mentioned in this thread, Ryan Rishaug freaking tweeted that the Oilers were about to "lose a trade", and he's an Oilers mouthpiece. Meaning Peter Chiarelli knew exactly what he was doing. Good GMs try go extract as much value as possible out of a trade, Chiarelli caves to everyone's demands. That's the sign of a lazy bum with no negotiating capabilities (see: him getting taken to the shed in the Seguin, Boychuk, Hall, Eberle, Barzal trades, or the Smith, Lucic, Seidenberg, Russell, Draisaitl, and Lucic again contracts).
We talk about Hall and Eberle being part of a losing culture here under the Tambellini/MacTavish regimes. How about the losing culture Chiarelli has cultivated? Not only is our team near the bottom of the standings, despite starting with far more pieces to work with in his first season than Tambo/MacT had during their entire stints. And moreover, he's also established the fact that "the Oilers will cave if you play hardball", and every GM in the league and every agent in the league can see this. So when they negotiate with Chia, they're going to squeeze every ounce of value out of him. He's managed to piss away assets like Hall, Eberle, and Barzal, with only Adam Larsson and Ryan Strome to show for it, and managed to somehow botch the salary cap situation during McDavid's ELC. That's a fireable offense.
CantHaveTkachev
Cap Space > NHL players
because Hall returned an important player for the Oilers on a cap-friendly deal signed long term for starters
and Eberle is only signed for one 1 more season anyways
and franchise cornerstone? come on...no franchise is building around wingers
bobbythebrain
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You forgot to mention that Philly also traded Vinny Lecalvier and Luke Schenn to LA for a 3rd and Jordan Weal
Now that's how you cap dump properly
The Oilers needed a Larsson more than they needed a Hall. The emergence of Draisaitl made Hall expendable. It might take some time for Drai to anchor his own line as a high level line driver but I have no doubt that he will get there and soon. This is McDavid's team, Hall wouldn't have worked well as a 2nd fiddle, you could already see evidence of that at the end of his tenure here. I'm not going to sit here and say that the trade was fair valuewise but this is not going to be a trade that will hurt them long term. I think this is a case of the need justifying the loss in value.
Eberle? Come on. It can be argued that his presence is slightly missed this season but long term? Nah, they'll be fine without Eberle. Not that I'm happy with the return of Strome, but this is not the franchise crippling move that some are making it out to be. It'll be looked at as hardly a blip on the radar in a couple of years.
I'll reiterate, as I have throughout the thread, that Chia has made some mistakes. The Reinhart trade, too much term on a few contracts, the backup goalie situations, not addressing needs this offseason but the amount of "damage" that some think he has inflicted on the organization is grossly overstated IMO.
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