Fire Pierre Dorion

[IlTerrifico]

Yes rebuilds work....if you spend up to the cap as your young players reach their prime. If your a cheapo budget team you're actually probably better to have waves of good and bad years and hope a wave of entry level salary guys have incredible 1st and 2nd years and complement what you have.

Imagine if we had the Leafs' wave of 22-24 year old talent and Cheapo's internal budget. We'd have to dump 1 or 2 of their rising players to save coin and we'd never bring in a Marleau type veteran. So we could eke into the playoffs for a couple of years, then drop off quickly. Sound familiar?

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Yes rebuilds work....if you spend up to the cap as your young players reach their prime. If your a cheapo budget team you're actually probably better to have waves of good and bad years and hope a wave of entry level salary guys have incredible 1st and 2nd years and complement what you have.

Imagine if we had the Leafs' wave of 22-24 year old talent and Cheapo's internal budget. We'd have to dump 1 or 2 of their rising players to save coin and we'd never bring in a Marleau type veteran. So we could eke into the playoffs for a couple of years, then drop off quickly. Sound familiar?

Well if you're going to spend to the floor, why not rebuild and horde draft picks and prospects in hopes of actually having a good floor team? Save money and increase spending in the competitive years, trade players you can't afford for futures and just repeat.

We're spending less but using picks to save money by asking other teams to take on our overpaid players. Use the picks to have cheap players instead. Doesn't seem like there's any downside to that that's not already involved with being a floor team.

 

[Sensung]

Well if you're going to spend to the floor, why not rebuild and horde draft picks and prospects in hopes of actually having a good floor team? Save money and increase spending in the competitive years, trade players you can't afford for futures and just repeat.

We're spending less but using picks to save money by asking other teams to take on our overpaid players. Use the picks to have cheap players instead. Doesn't seem like there's any downside to that that's not already involved with being a floor team.

Being a farm team for the rest of the league sounds amazing...where do I sign up?

Hey, maybe we can see if they'll let us into the AHL playoff when we finish 31st every year.

 

[armani]

To think Pierre Dorion wouldn't give up Ceci for this guy.

 

[Korpse]

To think Pierre Dorion wouldn't give up Ceci for this guy.

The rumour was it needed Melnyk's approval...

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Being a farm team for the rest of the league sounds amazing...where do I sign up?

Hey, maybe we can see if they'll let us into the AHL playoff when we finish 31st every year.

That's what we are currently. I'm saying if we're going to go forward with such a small player budget, we need a new approach. That means not signing the Burrows and Smiths of the world and departing with guys like Ryan or Hoffman when the time comes. Get.futures for those guys and continue to pump out young talent.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

That's what we are currently. I'm saying if we're going to go forward with such a small player budget, we need a new approach. That means not signing the Burrows and Smiths of the world and departing with guys like Ryan or Hoffman when the time comes. Get.futures for those guys and continue to pump out young talent.

Rather have the picks than Boedker at this stage.. If we needed another tweener to add depth fine...not at this stage is the point

 

[Que]

The rumour was it needed Melnyk's approval...

"Uh, hey, Euge, buddy, you won't believe - Edmonton called and they're willing to trade us Taylor Hall!"

"Is Bobby Ryan going the other way?"

"No, why? Oh..."

*Pierre curls into fetal position and cries, wishing for a new owner*

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The rumour was it needed Melnyk's approval...

rumour is Melnyk nixed a deal with Florida for Hoffman too

 

[Gil Gunderson]

The rumour was it needed Melnyk's approval...

It's going to be great when Melnyk sells the team to look back and see all the damage that he's done and how many years he set us back.

He goes on about how badly he wants to see this team win a Cup, yet he's been the primary reason why we haven't been anything more than a bubble team over the last 5 years.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Man do I miss Bryan Murray

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Man do I miss Bryan Murray

Bless that man.

 

[Que]

Has anyone else's feeling on Boucher softened a bit after the revelations of last week?

I mean, I kind of wish he just sent Hoffman packing when he found out but maybe he didn't find out the full extent until very late in the season (after playoffs had started).

 

[Yak]

Said day one Dorion was going to be EM puppet. He has done a couple okay trades but his inexperience as a GM is evident in his trades. Having EM as a owner surely does not make his job any easier.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I’m refering to when Washington tore it down in 2004. Ovie drafted, Backstrom drafted two years later. Team makes the playoffs almost every year since 2008. Finally get their cup this year after years of great regular season success but flaming out in the playoffs.

You’re telling me that rebuild didn’t work? They traded away Bondra, Gonchar, Nylander, Jagr and got picks and prospects. Built for the future since they were going nowhere.

How about Chicago? Bad around the same time. Tear it down. Draft Seabrook, Kane, Toews win 3 cups with that group. Not bad right?

LA tears it down and starts over. Kopitar, Quick, Schenn, Doughty. Schenn and Simmons traded for Richards, add Carter. They win two cups.

Pittsburgh? Awful in 2003-2004. Tear it down. Win a lottery, lucky yes. Draft Fleury, Crosby, Malkin, Staal. Cup finals a few years later, cup one year later. One of the best teams over the last decade.

Don’t tell me rebuilds hardly ever work.

I'm not sure you can call a 'rebuild' a success 10n years later.

 

[bert]

I'm not sure you can call a 'rebuild' a success 10n years later.

Its been a success the entire time Washington has been a contender every year a real contender with an incredibly exciting team to watch.

That being said i dont want Pierre making any more trades. Please no more. If they aren't gonna fire him he needs to take a good honest look in the mirror and understand he is not qualified to make these trades. He is tearing this franchise apart. Just stop PLEASE.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I'm not sure you can call a 'rebuild' a success 10n years later.

Why? They were (and still are) a contender for almost an entire decade and have a cup to show for it. What metric says that wasn't a success?

Doesn't particularly matter to use as an example for us though with giving away our first. Our Ovechkin is already in Colorado's hands. Could possibly start to rebuild in 2020.

 

[Take a Bath Son]

Thoughts on Pierre Dorion:

1. He's green for the GM role, learning the hard way as he goes and his hands are tied.
2. I like the guy. He's local and if there was a change in ownership, I'd like to see him stay on in a good role, maybe heading up scouting.
3. If he wears that grey and blue checkered jacket at the draft, I swear, I'll never say another nice word about him.

 

[IlTerrifico]

It's going to be great when Melnyk sells the team to look back and see all the damage that he's done and how many years he set us back.

He goes on about how badly he wants to see this team win a Cup, yet he's been the primary reason why we haven't been anything more than a bubble team over the last 5 years.

I disagree - Eug has won a couple of Cost-Per-Point Cups that he had made and keeps in his office.

When he buys the farm, he will have a line on his $50M tombstone (paid for with his expansion fee income, that he never spent) about cost-per-point Cups won and what suckers the real Cup winners were for spending more money to get the real thing. #legendinhisownmind

 

[Sensung]

Dorion is overworked and overmatched. He consistently brings a knife to a gunfight and Melnyk ties one hand around his back.

Great scout, terrible GM, but being well compensated to be Melnyk's lapdog, so I don't feel sorry for him.

I feel sorry for the fans that Dorion is poor at his job and making a bad situation worse.

 

[BonkTastic]

Dorion's hypothetical replacement won't ever fare much better as long as he has Melnyk giving him his marching orders.

Not sure how effective you can be at your job if every other team in the league knows that every trade you make has to come with some kind of salary relief or is being made for salary reasons, and bends you over a barrel because they know you have no choice in the matter.

 

[Stylizer1]

It always starts at the top. Inept management will always lead to unaccountability.

I don't know what's funner, train wreck or triumph.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I'm not sure you can call a 'rebuild' a success 10n years later.

Who are you referring to? All those teams turned it around shortly after tearing it down. A rebuild means going from being a very bad team to being a good team. Teams can struggle in the playoffs like Washington did, but their rebuild still worked.

 

[BonkTastic]

Who are you referring to? All those teams turned it around shortly after tearing it down. A rebuild means going from being a very bad team to being a good team. Teams can struggle in the playoffs like Washington did, but their rebuild still worked.

Those rebuilds were successful not just because they were bad for a while and got high first round picks. Those teams hit on those high picks, but also hit on their 2nd & 3rd round picks as well to produce legit talent... and then on top of all that, they spent money even when their teams were bad as an investment into the team - signed UFAs to flip at the deadline for more picks, made savvy trades, and invested heavily at every level of their organization.

I agree that rebuilds can absolutely have success, but just "being bad for a while" isn't enough - I think that's the point a lot of posters are trying to make when they point at Edmonton or the Islanders or many other teams who have gone towards full rebuilds without seeing the full fruit of their labour. It's a full investment from an organizational level that requires not only that you get high picks, but that your organization is fully committed both from a philosophical level (understanding that the team will be bad, committing to probably missing the playoffs for a while, making hockey decisions that are for the benefit of the future even if it hurts the present, and most importantly being able to effectively communicate that to your fanbase in a way that convinces them that the team is on the right tack and that their support will be rewarded) as well as a financial level (hiring the right people, ensuring that every level of hockey ops is properly staffed, investing in UFAs as capital to be used in hockey deals in the future, investing in marketing to help appease the fanbase during lean years of on-ice success, etc...) towards the end goal. Cutting corners at any point can mean failure.

I am highly skeptical of our organization's willingness to commit at the level necessary needed for a successful rebuild.

 

[Stylizer1]

Those rebuilds were successful not just because they were bad for a while and got high first round picks. Those teams hit on those high picks, but also hit on their 2nd & 3rd round picks as well to produce legit talent... and then on top of all that, they spent money even when their teams were bad as an investment into the team - signed UFAs to flip at the deadline for more picks, made savvy trades, and invested heavily at every level of their organization.

I agree that rebuilds can absolutely have success, but just "being bad for a while" isn't enough - I think that's the point a lot of posters are trying to make when they point at Edmonton or the Islanders or many other teams who have gone towards full rebuilds without seeing the full fruit of their labour. It's a full investment from an organizational level that requires not only that you get high picks, but that your organization is fully committed both from a philosophical level (understanding that the team will be bad, committing to probably missing the playoffs for a while, making hockey decisions that are for the benefit of the future even if it hurts the present, and most importantly being able to effectively communicate that to your fanbase in a way that convinces them that the team is on the right tack and that their support will be rewarded) as well as a financial level (hiring the right people, ensuring that every level of hockey ops is properly staffed, investing in UFAs as capital to be used in hockey deals in the future, investing in marketing to help appease the fanbase during lean years of on-ice success, etc...) towards the end goal. Cutting corners at any point can mean failure.

I am highly skeptical of our organization's willingness to commit at the level necessary needed for a successful rebuild.

2011 should have been the year but they decided to do it half assed and retool.