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Finland's status and reputation in the hockey world (merged)

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Fergus said:
If Russia and Finland would play 100 games Finland would win about 35 of them. People don't understand the huge variance of one game and even in best of 7-series the better team doesn't always win. It's basic math.

So no, there's no top-4.
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Yet Finland - unlike Russia - somehow end up fighting for medals every year. I guess it's just luck :sarcasm:.
 
Fergus said:
If Russia and Finland would play 100 games Finland would win about 35 of them. People don't understand the huge variance of one game and even in best of 7-series the better team doesn't always win. It's basic math.

So no, there's no top-4.
Click to expand...

The odds in betting are count per paper rosters, and some weight on how they have played earlier games in tournament.

How ever, no one can know, what kind of performance teams bring in the game day. And that is what makes the odds, not the papers. Better team on paper can still lose 10 out of 10 games, if they don't perform up to their potential for some reason. Hockey is not only coincidence game like you seem to think.
 
IMO "Top 4" is based on decades of history.

Finland is getting to that level; they may be playing to that level right now already. But they are not perennial elite like CAN RUS SWE and USA. Ie. you don't make the country's reputation based on just their last 4 meetings against Russia. I'm talking many matchups and results of Gold and Silver. Thinking they are gold medal favourites every tournament they come into, which they aren't. They are usually the dark horse.

They'll get there soon.
 
DrunkUncleDenis said:
IMO "Top 4" is based on decades of history.

Finland is getting to that level; they may be playing to that level right now already. But they are not perennial elite like CAN RUS SWE and USA. Ie. you don't make the country's reputation based on just their last 4 meetings against Russia. I'm talking many matchups and results of Gold and Silver. Thinking they are gold medal favourites every tournament they come into, which they aren't. They are usually the dark horse.

They'll get there soon.
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Last few decades i'm pretty sure Finland has the most medals from best-on-best tournaments.

Nobody is saying that they are top-4 on paper.
 
I get it. Pump their tires before they lose their next two games. That's fair.
 
It's always funny to see people underestimate Finland and I have to confess that I underestimated them too a bit. We will never have the best team on paper but our team game will always carry us like in this years WJC and in this tournament. The players always buy in to the system 100% and execute it well in most cases.

The whining about Finland's defensive system is also pretty funny. What should we do? Play run and gun with the likes of Russia and Canada? I much rather win 3-1 with "boring" style than lose 7-1 playing "the way hockey should be played".
 
It seems to me that Finland is collectively very good between the ears. They are fundamentally sound, don't panic, don't shoot themselves in the foot, compete always. They seem to get the most out of their personnel.

Probably a function of good coaching.
 
Dennis Bergkamp said:
Yet Finland - unlike Russia - somehow end up fighting for medals every year. I guess it's just luck :sarcasm:.
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Every year? If you are talking about best vs. best Olympics sample size is ridiculously small. In 4 tournaments Russia has one silver and one bronze, Finland has 1 silver and 2 bronzes. If you include Wc's Russia has been the most successful team for the last 6 years. I guess by 'every year' you mean the last 3 Olympics where Finland was in the top-4? So that's 3 quarterfinals to draw conclusions. Clearly you didn't understand my post about variance.
 
Fergus said:
Every year? If you are talking about best vs. best Olympics sample size is ridiculously small. In 4 tournaments Russia has one silver and one bronze, Finland has 1 silver and 2 bronzes. If you include Wc's Russia has been the most successful team for the last 6 years. I guess by 'every year' you mean the last 3 Olympics where Finland was in the top-4? So that's 3 quarterfinals to draw conclusions. Clearly you didn't understand my post about variance.
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Include 2004 World Cup too, Silver for Finland. And you can book at least top 4 result from 2014 now.

NHL wasn't there untill in 1998, but Finland was. Count anything you want from 1988, consistency has been there since.

But not yet best on best Golds.. loooong minus..
 
1988 since Finland first started medalling to today..

1988 - Silver
1992 - 7th
1994 - Bronze
1998 - Bronze
2002 - 6th
2006 - Silver
2010 - Bronze
2014 - medal game

if there's a pattern, it would mean that 2014 we win some medal, and 2018 no medal (5th I guess?)
 
They got this guy

DLkSQsC


Such a beauty
 
Why is not finland respected by north americans?

I have followed lot of international hockey conversations here and in other places, and I always see this same story. Lot of north americans see finland as a mid class team. Similar to swiss or so. Then when I see europeans talking about finns (even swedes) they always consider finland as one of the favourites, an opponent that is to be feared. Why is this?
 
I don't think that's true. I think they are generally viewed as a top 5 nation in terms of hockey.
 
trick9 said:
Last few decades i'm pretty sure Finland has the most medals from best-on-best tournaments.

Nobody is saying that they are top-4 on paper.
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With the material they have and still having such a success, i would rank them easily in top 4.
 
There is a thread right below this that says: "Finland is a top 4 country" started by a Canadian fan.

That's all that needs to be said.
 
I don't feel that way, nor have I ever. In fact, I have always respected Finland as much as any other country in terms of hockey.

You are just reading the negative posts, I think.
 
Having seen most of Saku Koivu's career, I NEVER bet against a Finn, even under seemingly unsurmountable odds :laugh:
 
They didn't win any fans with that performance against Canada in the round robin. It's like they were trying to kill the enjoyment of the sport.
 
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