Finland's status and reputation in the hockey world (merged)

[WarriorofTime]

I have been particularly impressed with the Finnish KHLers. I think many North Americans felt these guys were basically AHL-level quality talent. They work hard and play the system well.

 

[WillNyeTheHockeyGuy]

I wonder if a healthy Pekka Rinne would have made Team Finland?

Probably yeah, if anything based off reputation alone. I still think Rask starts over them all though. Only person he can displace is Lehtonen, and even then, Lehtonen's been absolutely amazing. That Finnish goalie depth is ridiculous. I used to think that Finland was done once Kiprusoff was gone. What a completely wrong idea.

 

[Cawz]

Finland scored 3 against Russia and allowed 1. Shot quality matters as well. Finland had the two best scoring chances outside of those goals. But you don't see this from the stats.

Just because you shoot a lot doesn't mean you're better. Russia was kept to the outside most of the game and this was happening a lot against Canada as well. Finland allows a lot of shots, from the perimeter. Canada deserved their win, they were able to create more quality chances than Russia was against Finland. But Finland was clearly the team in control against Russia.

You just need to understand and WATCH hockey. More than looking at shot totals and saves.

Youre the one who started quoting stats against lesser teams...

Do you not think Finland plays a defensive-style game?

 

[psycho_dad*]

Youre the one who started quoting stats against lesser teams...

Do you not think Finland plays a defensive-style game?

Yes, and defense is very much part of hockey. It's not anti-hockey in any way, it's an integral part of it.

Do you think any of the top countries play a run and gun system? Or any of the NHL teams. Of course not. It doesn't win anything in modern hockey.

Finland defends as a unit. Successful defense as a unit keeps quality scoring chances to a minimum. It's part of the game.

Finland had better quality chances than Russia did, so which one is anti-hockey? The one that can't create quality chances or the one who can, and at the same time keep the other away from them.

Hockey is a team sport, sounds to me like you'd prefer it to be an individual skills competition. You can watch that during the all-star weekend.


"stats against lesser teams"....well the stats included games against Canada and Russia, I would not count Canada as a lesser team. Russia yes.. Did these superior offensive teams do a better offensive job against Norway, which all 3 teams faced?

Canada-Norway 3-1
Russia-Norway 4-0
Finland-Norway 6-1

Rask has not stolen one game for Finland yet. I hope he's saving that for the next two. Your argument does not fly.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Finland has half of their team from Europe. On paper, the team is absolute *****. It's hard to respect a turd, even if there's a flower growing out of it.

If anything, this tournament should show NHL junkies that there is a lot of top end talent in other leagues.

 

[Plural]

Finland has half of their team from Europe. On paper, the team is absolute *****. It's hard to respect a turd, even if there's a flower growing out of it.

Do you happen to be T.Mara?

 

[Plural]

Youre the one who started quoting stats against lesser teams...

Do you not think Finland plays a defensive-style game?

Dude, defensive hockey is definitely NOT anti-hockey. For casual fan it might seem less sexy than high end offensive hockey. But for experienced fan great defensive effort is as entertaining as great offensive effort. Or at least close to it.

Seeing whole team blocking shots and out-working/out-skating the opponent is definitely entertaining hockey. When you don't have the best offensive players in the world, like Canada, you shouldn't play like them.

What Team-Finland has accomplished in the best-on-best olympics is not short of great.

 

[lawrence]

I have nothing but respect for the Finn's. I chose them to beat Russia. They play an error free tactic game with the lack of fire power they have. It's gonna be a beauty between the Swedes and Fins.

 

[Joey24]

I have followed lot of international hockey conversations here and in other places, and I always see this same story. Lot of north americans see finland as a mid class team. Similar to swiss or so. Then when I see europeans talking about finns (even swedes) they always consider finland as one of the favourites, an opponent that is to be feared. Why is this?

Defiantly viewed as a top 5, just not considered to be in the elite status of teams but defiantly not a team to be overlooked or disrespected.

 

[Noisespektrum]

I have tons of respect for the Finns. They were injury riddled and in a clutch game and took the host Russians out in fine style in the oppositions building and in regulation. Usa needed a shootout and were one called back goal from losing. Finns are the team of the tourney so far.

 

[DeuceMN]

Ha ha ha

Fins were outshot 65 - 37 against Russia and Canada and managed a win and an OT loss. That's riding your goalie, or riding the defensive side of your game. But sure, go ahead and quote stats vs Austria if that makes you feel better...

The Fins also kept almost all the shots to the outside against both the two powerhouses. There were not many second chances at all and the goalie almost every time only had to make the initial save.

The Fins D was great. And who gives a **** if they road their d? Is D less important than O in hockey? The teams that win ALWAYS have good D. It's just being smart.

Besides, a truly well played defensive game is impressive as hell to watch.

I find the fact that a country as small as Finland can give a country such as Russia trouble is truly admirable.

 

[canadianmagpie]

I never underestimate Finland, they always seem to have a solid team that works well on any ice surface. They generally have some of the best goalies, solid blueliners (watched Salo for ages when he played for the Canucks) and have a good mixture of skill and grit up front. They might not have the high-end talent that others seem to have (i.e. the Crosbys or the Ovechkins) but they compliment each other very well on the ice.

I was extremely impressed with Finland after watching them play against Canada and knew they would give a good game against Russia.

I think the reason why broadcasters overlooked them was the injuries to their centres. Not having their 'star' centres made them seem weak on paper, but the ones they have are performing well. I think Granlund is an dark horse to be named the top forward for the Olympics.

 

[PG Canuck]

I never underestimate the Finns because I know they play as a team and all buy into the same system, unlike Russia where I never was scared of them in this tournament...even coming into it.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

On here I saw a lot of hostility between fins and North American fans. I think it's a case of passionate fans, it's hockey.

 

[25Bieksa3]

I don't know any North American who disrespects Finland. If any team in any tournament can play to upset, it's the Finns. They play a good team system, and constantly frustrate their opponents no matter who they are.

Finns are my second fav. team in just about every tournament because they're so formidable.

 

[Eisen]

because the finnish play the same system as the norways, Latvians, the swiss, always have. They are just the best at that system, and have the best goaltenders that allows them to do it more effectively.

until they start playing an attacking style, they will always be in that group

Finland is one of the best teams when it comes to tactics in my opinion. They change their game according to the opponents. That's smart.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Follow-up question: why does ranking countries with stronger domestic leagues, who contribute more and better players to the NHL, equivalent to "lack of respect"? Forget about 4 years of domestic development in the meantime, a 2 week single elimination tournament every 4 years must be THE measuring stick, right?

Everyone respects Finland. They're a pain in the ass to play and they do it as a team. They're also still not clearly stronger hockey nations than ALL of Canada, the US, Russia, and Sweden, regardless of Olympic outcome. There's just too much to consider, observe and measure over the 4 year span between Olympics to lazily default to the results of a tournament that doesn't allow countries to send as many teams as possible that would be "competitive"; just one squad per nation sent through single game elimination.

 

[Past Considerations]

In all the talk of depth and missing players, I haven't seen Joni Pitkänen's name mentioned once. He'd have been a lock to make this team had he been healthy. I'm sorry if others have spoken of him, but I haven't seen or heard his name mentioned once, in the media or even on these boards.

Because it's possible his whole career is done, he wasn't that much in the roster speculations in the first place. :/

 

[Macbanan]

I would say the major reason is that the success Finland is having doesn't make all that much sense in the long run. I mean, the finnish roster is obviously below that of the other 4 nations of the big 5. But as we know hockey is a team sport. On the other hand both players and coaches get replaced and each olympics is four years apart. Team cohesiveness should also depend on those factors, it would be strange to claim that how well a team plays together is something completely separate from the components of the team.

But Finland got medals in 4 of the 5 last olympics and you can't ignore that. I just think people are expecting Finland to stop consistently beating "individually better" teams. And really as long as Finland doesn't have that many players dominating in the NHL the respect Finland gets for beating Russia will be more similar to the respect the swiss or Slovakia gets for beating them than perhaps USA or Canada.

 

[RuuhkaTukka]

I consider Canada/World Cup more like exhibition tournaments, those were basically rigged against European teams.

Russia played in the north american pool so they had all the same advantages compared to Finland that Canada and USA had. Still Finland ended up as the runner-up and Russia finished in the quarter finals. Also it was team USA that finished Russia. Finland finished USA in the semifinals.

If Russia and Finland would play 100 games Finland would win about 35 of them. People don't understand the huge variance of one game and even in best of 7-series the better team doesn't always win. It's basic math.

If Finland would play Russia 1 million times best on best Russia would win maby 35% of those games. Playing 100 games means nothing statistically. People dont seem to understand how small sample size 100 games is if you are seriously trying to understand probabilities of something happening. It is just basic probability theory.

So no, there's no top-4.

I agree. There is a top 3 of USA, Canada and Sweden. Then there is Russia and Finland to form the top 5. And finally there is Czech Republic, Slovakia and Switzerland to form the top 8.

 

[turkulad]

Whenever you look at the Finnish team on paper, you can't help laughing at the fact they never outshine of of their big opponents. When you use that ice, you realize it's a team sport and THAT'S why Finland's team is a top4. When listing ice hockey players as individuals based on talent, we might not even be top5 (CAN,US,SWE,RUS beat us easily.. CZE basically beats us too) .. but you need a team to win, individuals can only take you that far..

I always wonder why Canada never ices a "legit 4th line." We have guys like Pihlström and Komarov on the team, because a team needs to set roles to their players, and if I need a fourth line with energy, I'd easily take guys like them over guys like.. Ville Leino and Antti Miettinen. If you'd have three Canadian players on their roster that always win those "Best 3rd liner in the league"-threads, I'd argue they would dominate other teams more often than they do.

 

[Cableguy*]

How does Sweden's domestic league compares to FEL? And how to take KHL into account, I mean KHL aint just Russia?

KHL is the clear #2 in the world.

After that my guess would be that SHL would edge out the FEL, but just barely.

 

[Kharkov]

Fins were outshot 65 - 37 against Russia and Canada and managed a win and an OT loss. That's riding your goalie, or riding the defensive side of your game.

Scoring chances were more like 27-24 to Russia.

 

[QnebO]

Finland wasn't offensively dominated by Russia, we had the momentum alot in that game, and were very offensive. People are just expecting.

 

[Heningway]

Finland wasn't offensively dominated by Russia, we had the momentum alot in that game, and were very offensive. People are just expecting.

22 shots on goal isn't very offensive, 38 is.