Olympics: Finland G Noora Raty announces retirement due to lack of women's pro league

[Miggus]

I don't know that the NHL has anything to lose if they gave it a shot and started up a women's league. If it went away quickly, at least everyone can say they tried. It's not my money though, and nobody wants to lose money. Then again, between free agency and lockouts, how much money has the NHL thrown away over the years?

Of course the NHL would have something to lose and you said it yourself, it's money.

4 teams, salaries between $25-$50k/year would be sufficient to start, I think. With 30 players per team (no minor league system, so have to have more players on the roster for injuries), would be 120 players and a payroll between $3M and $6M per year.

Like toewsintangibles pointed out above, the numbers here just aren't viable. Here are the reported budgets for every Mestis (the 2nd highest league in Finland) team in 2011-2012. The combined player budgets for the whole league add up to about 2,5M€. That's about $3,4M. Now I don't know exactly how big women's hockey is in Canada or the US, but based on this I'd say that your idea of a 4 team women's league with just the player salaries touching up to $3M let alone more than that is just absurd.

 

[Sam Spade]

Could never be financially viable and it would be so boring. Would rather pay $5 to watch a Bantam A team play, faster AND you get some hitting.

I say this as a woman who plays in a highly competitive women's league in the D.C. area with current and former D1 players from all over the country. Our games are awesome to play in but oh so hard to watch.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Could only survive for a while with an NBA/WNBA-type subsidy program IMO. Would be a money pit and would eventually fail IMO.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

If there was a market for it, it would exist.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

This should be the final Olympics for a while for womens hockey. Taking 70 shots on a team is just downright silly. Right now there are only really 2 teams in the Olympics. This sport has no more validity in being in the Olympics aside from NFL/CFL football in summer games.

Setup a womens league next year raise the talent level. Its pointless that we have 2 teams only at the top level and the finals are so predictable.

Id rather see an best of 7 game series between Canada and the US for Gold and all others play for bronze.

Aren't you the same person who was recently decrying the lack of minorities getting employed by the NHL? And now you want the Olympics to dump female hockey and only have men's hockey? Kind of inconsistent.

 

[IME]

I like the idea of being part of a Saturday double header with an NHL game.

Women on in the afternoon, NHL team on at night. Either make it free admission with a price of NHL ticket (specific sections only so that they can sell just Womens tickets too), or an optional $5-10 surcharge. If the team is owned by the arena owner (or the NHL team), they can reap concession profits. TSN can broadcast the games nationally.

Make it a short season. Start in September (with NHL preseason games) and have the championship during the Winter Classic weekend. This cuts down on player costs.

 

[Shrimper]

I like the idea of being part of a Saturday double header with an NHL game.

Women on in the afternoon, NHL team on at night. Either make it free admission with a price of NHL ticket (specific sections only so that they can sell just Womens tickets too), or an optional $5-10 surcharge. If the team is owned by the arena owner (or the NHL team), they can reap concession profits. TSN can broadcast the games nationally.

Make it a short season. Start in September (with NHL preseason games) and have the championship during the Winter Classic weekend. This cuts down on player costs.

Exactly what I though. Might be able to attract more people. I think women would be interested in it. Men, not so but there'd be some interest in certain places.

Starting off small with 5 teams or so and 20 or so games is the best thing to start doing.

 

[GKJ]

If there was a market for it, it would exist.

One exists in Canada, but no one knows about it, and players often opt to go play in CIS. A female league is not self-sustaining. The lack of competitiveness in the Olympics only works against the momentum of the sport. The Americans and Canadians would still cream an All-Star team made up women from any other country.


Disappointing that Raty is leaving the team. The women's game won't grow if the best players are retiring at age 24. In North America, could probably get away with it. Funny thing is that she'd make money being a commentator more than playing. This brings Finland back to the pack behind them as opposed to where they really are - clearly the third best nation. The future of women's hockey in the Olympics is almost completely contingent on how well Finland does.


Can't match up a league with the NHL. The logistics aren't there, too many arenas share their building with too many other things, NBA among them, and there are often Saturday doubleheaders.

 

[Ducksgo*]

I'll miss watching her. She was a great goaltender.

This is absolutely crazy news. NHL should be focused on creating another WNHL that was disbanded years ago. Instead of not bringing NHL players to the Olympics. Wtf is going on here?

 

[Ducksgo*]

Could only survive for a while with an NBA/WNBA-type subsidy program IMO. Would be a money pit and would eventually fail IMO.

Some how WNBA is still being broadcasted. I don't watch it, but a lot of women do. Any type of extra revenue the NHL can get their hands on they will do it. I see a women's league coming back in the next few years

 

[kingsholygrail]

This is absolutely crazy news. NHL should be focused on creating another WNHL that was disbanded years ago. Instead of not bringing NHL players to the Olympics. Wtf is going on here?

It's a business. There's no money to be made in a WNHL.

 

[Ducksgo*]

It's a business. There's no money to be made in a WNHL.

Same can be said about WNBA? But some how there league is still taking airtime on ESPN and other television networks. I get it's a more popular sport, but still

 

[Rabid Ranger]

If there was a market for it, it would exist.

That's my view. Personally, I find women's sports at the professional level to be vastly inferior to the mail counterpart. In hockey it's even worse as the physicality (i.e. hitting) is for the most part taken out of the equation. I know we live in a world of gender equity and political correctness but at the same time you have to call a spade a spade. Women's professional hockey is just not viable economically.

 

[CHIP72]

One thing that should be noted is that the WNBA plays in the summer when baseball and to a much lesser degree golf and tennis are the other, primary spectator sports, i.e. there is less competition for the fans' sports dollars. Playing in the summer also reduces the number of arena conflicts with NBA, NHL, arena football, box lacrosse, and non-sports events.

At least in the U.S., a WNHL probably would need to be played during the latter half of the current NHL season for interest purposes. Interest in the NHL (and for that matter the NBA and college basketball) tends to increase significantly after the NFL season is over. In Canada, the ideal scheduling is probably much different; I'd guess a season centered on the early portion of the NHL schedule would make more sense.

 

[CHIP72]

That's my view. Personally, I find women's sports at the professional level to be vastly inferior to the mail counterpart. In hockey it's even worse as the physicality (i.e. hitting) is for the most part taken out of the equation. I know we live in a world of gender equity and political correctness but at the same time you have to call a spade a spade. Women's professional hockey is just not viable economically.

For the record, I find the USPS inferior to UPS and FedEx.

 

[GKJ]

WNBA has been declining in attendance for a few years, successful teams are moving because it's actually costing them too much money to do so. Teams are giving up playoff games because they can't sell them on short notice. The ONLY reason ESPN gives them the time of day is because they need content during the summer.

 

[SlingshotVv]

Why do women deserve a professional league? Professional sports is about one thing only: entertainment. If it isn't entertaining, people will not watch it, and it therefore isn't viable.

The best women's hockey team in the entire world right now cannot even manage a winning record against Midget AAA teams comprised of 15-17 year old boys. Boys. So who the hell is going to pay real money to go watch what would otherwise be considered terrible, amateur hockey?

Hey, I wish women were better, too, but they simply aren't. Not right now. And the real top women's player, Hayley Wickenheiser, who did manage 43 games in third/fourth-rate (if not worse) leagues, still couldn't manage to get any higher.

Personally, I think the worst part is the media's glorification of Manon Rheaume, who clearly only made an NHL training camp and 26 second- and third-rate pro games as a novelty. Someday I do think a woman goalie has a chance at making the pros legitimately, but the media will continue to focus on that farce, which arguably has hurt more than helped women's hockey overall.

But, again, my biggest point is that until the best women in the world can beat mere boys, I don't see how they can survive with a pro league. Just because they're the best of their gender in the entire world, that doesn't mean they're deserving of a professional league, whose entire viability is not based on equality or merit but financial viability. I don't see how that's possible with such poor talent.

Wrong, professional sports is about profit. And the idea of bringing a sex that represents over half the population into the fold is HUGE business. Getting women's hockey rolling is a key element to that, as it trickles down to every level. This in turn teAches the sport to more women, which should lead to a growing fan base, Potentially a massive one.

 

[intangible]

Wrong, professional sports is about profit. And the idea of bringing a sex that represents over half the population into the fold is HUGE business. Getting women's hockey rolling is a key element to that, as it trickles down to every level. This in turn teAches the sport to more women, which should lead to a growing fan base, Potentially a massive one.

Where you're going wrong is that you're assuming women will pay to watch other women play a sport, and that has yet to be proven in any attempt in the history of women's sports. The number of women who even played sports competitively is small enough, then you think women are going to willfully watch other women play sports? That's not just unlikely; it's hilariously unlikely. Unless the fanbase is male driven or male accepted, there's little to no money to be made in women's professional hockey, unfortunately. Not saying that's right, but that's the way it is.

 

[CHIP72]

Where you're going wrong is that you're assuming women will pay to watch other women play a sport, and that has yet to be proven in any attempt in the history of women's sports. The number of women who even played sports competitively is small enough, then you think women are going to willfully watch other women play sports? That's not just unlikely; it's hilariously unlikely. Unless the fanbase is male driven or male accepted, there's little to no money to be made in women's professional hockey, unfortunately. Not saying that's right, but that's the way it is.

Stated another, even more direct way, most sports fans regardless of gender generally prefer to see the highest quality play in a sport. Because of the physical differences between men in general and women in general, the highest quality play in most sports is achieved by men. In some sports the difference in quality between the top men and top women is significant.

I personally want to see women hockey players (and women athletes in general) have opportunities to play sports, but the above is the biggest challenge with the acceptance and popularity of many women's sports (as some posters have already noted in this thread).

 

[Plante]

I think there are still two distinct questions. Would a WNHL be viable ( Im extremely skeptical) and would giving the most exceptional talents from other countries a place to play increase the demand for women's hockey in their native lands ( no). even if it did, if the league is structured as I expect ( 10-20% max of non us/canada players) then next effect is that these two nations get better wrt to the other nations which further increases the disparity for international constests.

Right now the only thing that women have after college/university ( where they are not paid) is national teams. if the olympics drops womens hockey because the result is essentially predetermined, that's a huge blow that I'm not sure it survives.

The olympics wont like this one bit but what it was a three/4 team team tourney, canada/us/ everybody else playing under the olympic banner ? at least for a while ? it might actually show that canada and the us CAN be beat which I dont think anyone beleives unless they are playing each other.

I think what said earlier would have to be true about funding. It would have to have NHL support and people would have to be willing to lose a few million for the first decade (minimum, and im being generous) before some profit was made.

And I think you are incorrect on your second statement, I mean, this is why Noora retired. If there was a pro womens league for european (and other) women to play in and get paid instead of having to work full time (not to mention motherhood) it would greatly increase the stability of the current elite women, plus give a platform for younger women to follow a game and gain new idols that aren't male. I also think the Olympics are a great example of this with Wickenheiser and Knight, ect...

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

I think a lot of people on this board and in general severely underestimate the amount of female hockey/sports fans.
Maybe they wouldn't all watch a women's league, but a lot would especially if it is cheaper than NHL tickets.
Imagine how many more young girls would get into the game if they had local heroes to watch?

Make it only a few teams. You don't even need to pay for tv broadcasting. Follow what the NWSL did for their first season, they had live streams of all of the games on Youtube and they were decent quality. Tickets were pretty cheap. If you want it to be male driven, imagine how much fun it could be for a dad to take his little girl to a women's game to get her into it.

I don't see why this shouldn't at least be tried for a year or two. If it fails, it fails.

 

[Swedish playmaker*]

Let her take Pavelecs spot on the Jets. Problem solved.

 

[saintflannel]

I'd go if Halifax had a team. I'd obviously be in the minority though.

 

[sandysan]

I think what said earlier would have to be true about funding. It would have to have NHL support and people would have to be willing to lose a few million for the first decade (minimum, and im being generous) before some profit was made.

And I think you are incorrect on your second statement, I mean, this is why Noora retired. If there was a pro womens league for european (and other) women to play in and get paid instead of having to work full time (not to mention motherhood) it would greatly increase the stability of the current elite women, plus give a platform for younger women to follow a game and gain new idols that aren't male. I also think the Olympics are a great example of this with Wickenheiser and Knight, ect...

you are missing the point, there is no doubt that regardless who pays for it the women that play will get better. The problem is that the women who would play would be overwhelmingly us/Canadian. So someone throws a ton of money at this, Noora comes over and is a star, really head and shoulders above the rest. If (and its a big if) some young girl in Norway watches it and gets inspired, that only translates into emulating her idol if access is assured. I'm not sure it is, which is the problem.

Wanting to play hockey is important but its not enough, young girls need to get to play hockey. If the goalie were Kim St pier it could help develop the game because young girls could get the chance to emulate her but this is where the rich get richer.

Increased participation is the only chance of leveling the field.

 

[CHfan1]

I think a lot of people on this board and in general severely underestimate the amount of female hockey/sports fans.
Maybe they wouldn't all watch a women's league, but a lot would especially if it is cheaper than NHL tickets.
Imagine how many more young girls would get into the game if they had local heroes to watch?

Make it only a few teams. You don't even need to pay for tv broadcasting. Follow what the NWSL did for their first season, they had live streams of all of the games on Youtube and they were decent quality. Tickets were pretty cheap. If you want it to be male driven, imagine how much fun it could be for a dad to take his little girl to a women's game to get her into it.

I don't see why this shouldn't at least be tried for a year or two. If it fails, it fails.

They have tried women's pro hockey leagues and they have mostly failed. They have one right now with five teams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Women's_Hockey_League). They only get 500-700 fans a game and don't really make a salary. Their coaches are volunteers. A full blown women's league just won't work. There isn't enough interest in hockey in general in the States to watch it and people in Canada have superior options to watch in the NHL, CHL, junior A leagues, etc.