Olympics: Finland G Noora Raty announces retirement due to lack of women's pro league

[Brooklanders*]

Well Bettman likes to copy everything else about the NBA so why not this?

And I agree with others that a women's pro hockey league could help grow the NHL fanbase. To what extent, I'm not sure, but I strongly believe it would help not just women's hockey but the NHl.

Would be interesting to think where they would put WNHL franchises. My first instinct was thinking why don't they just make 6 Original 6 WNHL franchises but it would seem wrong to not have a Minnesota WNHL franchise. And maybe there could be something gained by putting WNHL franchises in places where no NHL team is like Madison/Milwaukee? Just kind of thinking out loud.

Bettman is better than Stern.
The NHL and NBA salary cap is so very different.
A Commissioners main job is to grow and market the league. Its major business.
The women's league makes no sense. WNBA isn't a cash cow and players salaries are awful.
We don't even have enough female hockey fans in America.

 

[KevinBXA]

This is a tough one, on the one hand women's hockey needs some sort of pro league. On the other hand I really question how successful one could be.

I think the the most difficult obstacle would be money. Assuming this league would be placed in the northeast, some of the players would be coming from different parts of world and would need some sort of monetary compensation. You would also need owners, paying fans and lots of sponsors as has been mentioned already.

I think something that could be viable, at least for the time being, would be a very small league (think 4 teams) maybe in Ontario, maybe a little more spread out that plays weekend tournaments. All 4 teams congregate in one teams city and play the other 3 teams, 2 games a night: Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Charge admission once for the entire weekend and have these rotate through the 4 towns. If this league could partner up with the CHL, they could have a Memorial Cup esque tournament the same weekend in the same place. Include tickets to the women's games with the Memorial Cup packages and create a reputation. I think there's a good chance you could convince jr hockey fans to come watch some of the best female hockey players in a championship environment and I think this kind of league would work.

Now of course the main issue here is that a league like this would not be a big money maker, therefore the players would not be paid well. I imagine that the majority of Canadian/American women are based out of eastern Canada or the Northeast somewhere and could afford the time to play if a team was near enough. The National Lacrosse League operates off of a similar weekend schedule where the majority of players have day jobs and make very little from playing lacrosse.

The goal here would be to get something going and hope that eventually interest would build and a legitimate pro league could exist for women's hockey. In the meantime at least some form of a league would exist and I could definitely see TSN picking up a few games, much like the NLL.

 

[FiLe]

As new development after announcing her "retirement", Räty mentioned on the FIHA website that she might continue her career after all. She mentioned that she's currently looking for an opportunity to dress for a Mestis (FIN tier-2) team in the near future. Apparently, some clubs have already given a careful positive response.

If she gets that chance, she said that even returning for 2018 is not out of the question.

 

[meenamjah]

CWHL anyone? About as professional as it gets for womens hockey right now. Currently has 4 teams and investments from the Toronto Maple Leafs and Calgary Flames. Someone should seriously point Noora Raty towards Canada. She'd be welcomed with open arms I'm sure. Florence Shelling was once interested in coming over for it. Now Shelling plays in Mens Tier 3 league in Switzerland. If Schelling can play Men's Tier 3 then so can Noora Raty.

CWHL players don't get paid. she's better off in a tier 3 league closer to home.

 

[Kharkov]

Would like to see Räty in Mestis but it can be tough for her there.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

Why should the NHL and NHLPA waste their money on a women's league? They're not a charity.

I would never want the NHL to consider it as a charity endeavor.

But it would be worth investigating if such a league might grow interest in the NHL itself by getting more women into hockey and thus ultimately make money.

 

[Dave is a killer]

The only reason the WNBA survives (which I really wouldn't call it surviving) is due to the NBA.
There isn't a Women's professional softball league.
And the NFL, yeah, let's not go there.
Soccer ? ... Is there really a Woman's pro league that is discussed on the international landscape ?

 

[sandysan]

The crowd at WNBA games is largely women and girls. I guess the same would hold true for something like a WNHL.

I think a team hosted in Minnesota would work, and could probably draw 2,000-3,000 fans a game.

if you are drawing 3K what kind of salaries do you think you could offer the players ? What TV channel would be willing to broadcast games with such a low general appeal ?

I just dont think that there is enough appeal for a professional women's league and that wont be changed even if the nhl threw money at it hand over fist.

 

[FiLe]

Soccer ? ... Is there really a Woman's pro league that is discussed on the international landscape ?

Multiple, actually. Of course none garner the attention men's game gets, but they still make it possible for women to play for a living.

 

[McDrailers]

Women's olympic hockey is a JOKE. There are 3 medals, but there should only be one game and two teams facing each other each year...

Sure leagues would help that, but the time it would take is just a big banner for losing money short term. A short term most people involved will pull out of before it can EVER pay dividends.

Sorry.

This, what's the point of even going to the Olympics as a womens hockey player if you're not from Canada or the US. Japan is playing ice hockey in Sochi right now. Japan.

It's basically a competition for Bronze. We know who gets gold and silver, what's the point in watching any other game but the GMG?

Nobody would attend a female hockey league. Just would not happen, maybe the aspiring young girls who want to be a professional female player and rightly so for them. That would be great for young hockey players.Other then that I don't even see a female hockey league selling more then 10% of an AHL rink

 

[Mayor Bee]

[deleted]

 

[MikeK]

Women's hockey WILL be dropped as an Olympic event if something isn't done soon to help promote and develop talent. The gap between USA/Canada and the rest of the world is HUGE. Some people like to talk about how that gap has shrunk in recent years but let's all get real and call it how it is. Woman's hockey is one of the most lopsided events in the Olympics. Every time there is an event or tourney it is Canada and the USA playing for 1 & 2 while the rest are playing for the scraps. It has been this way for way too long. If something doesn't happen soon I don't see how woman's hockey can survive on the big stage. In fact, it may be too late already. There were already rumors last time around in Vancouver that the IOC wanted to drop it. This time around nothing has changed. The USA and Canada dominate while the other countries just sorta show up and ply each other for 3rd. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it gets dropped as early as 2018.

 

[Qward]

Why not take a page from the WNBA? Only scale back a bit. Set up 6 teams. In the Original six cities. Have the team names and colours look similar to the other teams, only with some changes. I am sure a 6 team league could do very well.

 

[OTP Legend*]

They just have to be better, no one wants to watch such bad players play... They get their ***** kicked by 14-15 year old boys....

This.

I don't know if they get **** kicked, but they need to offer a better product. A WHL ticket costs $15-20, BCHL costs $10-15 and Junior B costs like $5 a game. All of them are much better than woman's hockey.

The WNBA sort of works because anyone can play basketball, therefore they can attract a larger audience. Ice hockey costs thousands of dollars per year to play. It's too niche...

 

[sandysan]

Women's hockey WILL be dropped as an Olympic event if something isn't done soon to help promote and develop talent. The gap between USA/Canada and the rest of the world is HUGE. Some people like to talk about how that gap has shrunk in recent years but let's all get real and call it how it is. Woman's hockey is one of the most lopsided events in the Olympics. Every time there is an event or tourney it is Canada and the USA playing for 1 & 2 while the rest are playing for the scraps. It has been this way for way too long. If something doesn't happen soon I don't see how woman's hockey can survive on the big stage.

this is going to take a boatload of money no matter what, and if the nhl and the pa are going to open their wallets, I'd much prefer that they do so to make taking up the game, by boys and girls, more accessible than sinking money into a professional women's league. look at womens participation in these other countries, its no surprise canada us run roughshod when the talent pool is exponentially larger.

Lets just say they DID start a WNHL, there is NO way it starts at 30 teams, it would have to be a very small league to start. so lets say that one fifth of the league comes from countries other than the states and canada, and then the olympics happen and then you get full pros against teams with variable numbers of pros. I'm not sure that changes the us/canada vs everyone else anytime soon.

I think that it is FAR easier to get more women fans to watch the NHL by getting more girls playing, than by having people watch professional women's hockey. I think that if you could get certain demographics to follow women's hockey without having played it, I think that they would likely chose to continue watching because its NOT the nhl ( i.e less emphasis on physical play) so the dream of getting more women fans of the nhl seems like a complete pipe dream.

 

[MikeK]

this is going to take a boatload of money no matter what, and if the nhl and the pa are going to open their wallets, I'd much prefer that they do so to make taking up the game, by boys and girls, more accessible than sinking money into a professional women's league. look at womens participation in these other countries, its no surprise canada us run roughshod when the talent pool is exponentially larger.

Lets just say they DID start a WNHL, there is NO way it starts at 30 teams, it would have to be a very small league to start. so lets say that one fifth of the league comes from countries other than the states and canada, and then the olympics happen and then you get full pros against teams with variable numbers of pros. I'm not sure that changes the us/canada vs everyone else anytime soon.

I think that it is FAR easier to get more women fans to watch the NHL by getting more girls playing, than by having people watch professional women's hockey. I think that if you could get certain demographics to follow women's hockey without having played it, I think that they would likely chose to continue watching because its NOT the nhl ( i.e less emphasis on physical play) so the dream of getting more women fans of the nhl seems like a complete pipe dream.

There are no issues getting boys and girls to play hockey. Almost all countries offer options for both boys and girls up to a certain age.

Where the problem begins is when woman get out of college and have no where else to play. Once women hit a certain stage of their lives they no longer have a place to play competitively and this is what is killing the development in other countries.

You have some interesting ideas but they don't really help the problem. We need to get women playing at a professional level in order to develop talent all over the world. Not sure why you think getting women into watching hockey will help improve competition.

 

[offkilter]

Its not about getting a pro league started in North America, its about getting more countries than the USA and Canada to invest in their women's teams, and take development seriously. Teams like Finland and Sweden don't put in anywhere near the same resources they do for the men's game or even what USA/CAN women's does. You know somethings wrong too when Japan has more registered women players than Russia, then again Japan is the only country that has a women's semi-pro league in addition to their University teams. Granted they haven't won a game this olympics, but its program has made huge strides, and gained new interest just by making the Olympics. It won't be long before they start making the euro teams look bad.

 

[sandysan]

Why not take a page from the WNBA? Only scale back a bit. Set up 6 teams. In the Original six cities. Have the team names and colours look similar to the other teams, only with some changes. I am sure a 6 team league could do very well.

I'm not against it but what precisely is the goal ? you have a 6 team league, great. How many of those slots do you think go to players from countries other than us/canada ? 5%, 10 % ? So you now have the globes two largest talent pools playing each other and improving ( presumably) so how does this decrease the talent difference ?

if you say that the purpose of the league is to grow the game in other countries and in order to accelerate this you put in ridiculous quotas, say 50% non us/canada players per team. You do this and the likelihood of this having even a remote chance of being able to be economically viable goes from razor thin to none.

There is no doubt that other countries can produce world class talent, but unless participation rates increase and increase dramatically, the hypothetical WNHL will still be > 90% us and canadian women.

 

[CHIP72]

If a women's pro league were formed in North America, I'd start with no more than 8 teams and probably 6 teams, place them mostly/entirely in NHL markets, and if possible have the women's games be the first part of hockey doubleheaders involving their games (afternoon) and NHL games (evening). I'd place teams in the following markets (assuming 6 teams):

*Toronto (no-brainer)
*Montreal (no-brainer)
*Detroit (near no-brainer)
*New York (playing in MSG, Prudential Center, or the Barclay's Center)
*Two of the following - Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and/or Buffalo

 

[MikeK]

There is no doubt that other countries can produce world class talent, but unless participation rates increase and increase dramatically, the hypothetical WNHL will still be > 90% us and canadian women.

Agreed... and this is why I really believe Women's Olympic hockey is just about done. In order for other countries to truly delevop and become competitive against the US and Canada they would have to invest in their own programs. I don't see that happening any time soon, or at all.

 

[aemoreira1981]

A women's league won't survive without the NHL's help.

Or at the very least, USA Hockey and Hockey Canada. I agree with others that it would be best to start small---with 8 teams...1 team in the Boston area, 1 in central-western New York, two or three in the 401/20 corridor, one in Michigan, one in Minnesota, and the eighth in a to-be-determined area, possibly in Alberta.

Agreed... and this is why I really believe Women's Olympic hockey is just about done. In order for other countries to truly delevop and become competitive against the US and Canada they would have to invest in their own programs. I don't see that happening any time soon, or at all.

I would add Sweden to this, but essentially, women's hockey internationally is essentially a 3-country horse race. I would not be surprised to see women's hockey dropped after 2018.

 

[JoeCool16]

Would like to see Räty in Mestis but it can be tough for her there.

Hard yes, but it'd probably be easier for a woman to make it in a men's league as a goalie than as a skater. She won't have to really deal with contact, and can focus on whether or not she's able to stop pucks coming at a higher velocity than she's used to. Manon Rheaume survived something like 10-15 pro games against men in the states (at like ECHL level), and although she didn't do very well, there are lots of goalies each year in those leagues that don't do very well. Maybe Räty could be a step above that and be a serviceable backup?

 

[sandysan]

There are no issues getting boys and girls to play hockey. Almost all countries offer options for both boys and girls up to a certain age.

Where the problem begins is when woman get out of college and have no where else to play. Once women hit a certain stage of their lives they no longer have a place to play competitively and this is what is killing the development in other countries.

You have some interesting ideas but they don't really help the problem. We need to get women playing at a professional level in order to develop talent all over the world. Not sure why you think getting women into watching hockey will help improve competition.

there are entire states in the US that have fewer sheets than were available to me within a one hour drive of when I lived on the south shore. Low supply, increasing demand means that a lot of people who would like to try are simply priced out.

hockey is insanely expensive compared to other sports, and there are a lot of NHL, PA programs and individual player driven programs to help with the costs but they are very much regional ( Snyder has a program in philly, the subban hyundai thing is also regional I think).

if you want to increase women's participation, follow the path that was developed by Canada and the US. Get young girls playing, increase the talent pool and give girls and young women leagues in which they can develop professionally. I think that the likelihood of enticing young girls to want to emulate their women role models when there are no opportunities for them to follow in their steps ( because lack of access in their home countries is so poor) is nil.

 

[MikeK]

I would add Sweden to this, but essentially, women's hockey internationally is essentially a 3-country horse race. I would not be surprised to see women's hockey dropped after 2018.

There were a lot of rumors during Vancouver2010 that the IOC felt the women's hockey event was not a good representation of the Olympic spirit because none of the other countries could compete with Canada and the USA. I have not seen anything in Sochi1014 that would change that opinion. Women's Hockey in the Olympics is definitely on borrowed time right now and think it is nearing it's end. If not in Pyeongchang2018 I can see it booted shortly after that.

 

[MuckOG]

if you are drawing 3K what kind of salaries do you think you could offer the players ? What TV channel would be willing to broadcast games with such a low general appeal ?

I just dont think that there is enough appeal for a professional women's league and that wont be changed even if the nhl threw money at it hand over fist.

I don't know....$30,000-$50,000 a year per player for salaries. Probably not a ton of tv time, could be worked into the television deals with the parent NHL club (assuming a similar parent relationship like there is with the WNBA and NBA).

In Minnesota, we have a rink that was built SPECIFICLY to support women's hockey at the University (Ridder Arena). Seating capacity is 3,400. This would be perfect for a Minnesota WNHL team.

Ridder Arena