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Final Russian roster

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ar_emihcrd said:
He didn't play like trash - he just wasn't good enough. Anikeenko is actually quite decent - but he's young and he's struggling. Which was my point.

I'm just here to clear up the fallacies that are prevalent on boards like these. They are deadening intelligent hockey discussion. Start thinking - stop copying and pasting popular homerist opinion.
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Only if you stop being a homer will I do so. Even other respected russian fans will tell you this team is not as strong as 2002 or 2003.
 
JasonMacIsaac said:
No, my researchis right. Go through the roster and tell me which forwards show an attemp at defense and physical play. You won't find many. You are wrong because you have no clue what one dimentional means.
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Nikulin - this guy will be a checker. He plays the middle, wins faceoffs, gets involved. This is why the Senators drafted him. He's tough.
Pestunov - pure two-way centerman. he's a team vet and is experienced. not like nikulin and shafigulin - he's not in-your-face.
Shafigulin - he should be the most physical player on the team. if he's not he's failed.
Salnikov/Galimov - also checkers. made the team because they use their size. Are you sure you know enough about them to comment?

This is not including Malkin and OVechkin. VOloshenko and Yunkov are quite sturdy too. Shirokov - not very much but he's strong. Lisin has gotten stronger. Parshin is a strong little guy who gets involved and fights for the puck.

And lighten up - I'm not mad at you for being wrong. We all do it sometimes.
 
JasonMacIsaac said:
Only if you stop being a homer will I do so. Even other respected russian fans will tell you this team is not as strong as 2002 or 2003.
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Do you know what 'begging the question' means? Well, it applies to what you've said above.

The 2002 team was lucky to win gold.
 
ar_emihcrd said:
Nikulin - this guy will be a checker. He plays the middle, wins faceoffs, gets involved. This is why the Senators drafted him. He's tough.
Pestunov - pure two-way centerman. he's a team vet and is experienced. not like nikulin and shafigulin - he's not in-your-face.
Shafigulin - he should be the most physical player on the team. if he's not he's failed.
Salnikov/Galimov - also checkers. made the team because they use their size. Are you sure you know enough about them to comment?

This is not including Malkin and OVechkin. VOloshenko and Yunkov are quite sturdy too. Shirokov - not very much but he's strong. Lisin has gotten stronger. Parshin is a strong little guy who gets involved and fights for the puck.

And lighten up - I'm not mad at you for being wrong. We all do it sometimes.
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Their physical within their own age class in russia. That doesn't make them physical. A player like Khomutov is physical and defensive aware in the CHL but in the AHL he is a liability.
 
JasonMacIsaac said:
Their physical within their own age class in russia. That doesn't make them physical. A player like Khomutov is physical and defensive aware in the CHL but in the AHL he is a liability.
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I need to buy you a good cup of Russian tea so we could sit down and you could absorb this better. You won't believe how that stuff clears up the mind.

Bring on the World Juniors!!!... and hopefully intelligent discussion from now on.
 
Slay said:
Well since Russian 86 recently won U18 we can assume that Russia has the best 86 group of players in the world ;)

Canadian players of 85 are beatable and even by the Russian 85 group and it was shown at the U18 2003. Team Canada won that tourney but were not so mind booming. Russia had a better record there and beat Canada 6-3 with less impressive roster than this one, with several 5'6-5'8 players on the roster. Speed, tempo, creativeness - this is what can beat this team Canada. Russians are more improvisators than Canadians, Canada = Mike Tyson, Russia = Mohammed Ali ;))
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That Canada team was made up of CHL players whose teams hadn't made the CHL playoffs. It was a third-level team. If you look at the roster, very few of the best '85 b-dates were there for Canada.

Also, I don't think speed and tempo are the hallmarks of Russian hockey (vis-a-vis Canada's alleged grinding) anymore. The current Canadian top juniors can certainly skate and keep the tempo or be as creative as anyone, if not more with this group. On the other hand, I'd also admit that Russians can give or take body checks better than they used to.

The stereotypes are long gone.

By the way, to the gentleman who wished to drop me a line- I'd prefer not list an e-mail address here. What do you have in mind?
 
steblick said:
That Canada team was made up of CHL players whose teams hadn't made the CHL playoffs. It was a third-level team. If you look at the roster, very few of the best '85 b-dates were there for Canada.

Also, I don't think speed and tempo are the hallmarks of Russian hockey (vis-a-vis Canada's alleged grinding) anymore. The current Canadian top juniors can certainly skate and keep the tempo or be as creative as anyone, if not more with this group. On the other hand, I'd also admit that Russians can give or take body checks better than they used to.

The stereotypes are long gone.

By the way, to the gentleman who wished to drop me a line- I'd prefer not list an e-mail address here. What do you have in mind?
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Speed is still a Russian hallmark (or maybe part of style is better worded) but certainly not tempo - you're right. Hell, Russia had no tempo at the Canada Cup nor at Salt Lake.

The stereotypes are mostly gone but apparently not entirely... eh?

Listed my e-mail above. It's hockey-related. Thanks.
 
ar_emihcrd said:
Big names mean nothing. 2002 had good prospects in it but most of them were too young - like Tyutin and Korsunov to dominate. In 2003 they jelled because they were older and played in the Superleague longer.

Vitaly Anikeenko is a big name. You don't see him on this roster? Why? Because rosters are not built on hype - they are built on players that are better suited at the particular time.
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Well this team has also a lot of "too young" players.
 
steblick said:
That Canada team was made up of CHL players whose teams hadn't made the CHL playoffs. It was a third-level team. If you look at the roster, very few of the best '85 b-dates were there for Canada.
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3rd level team?

MUNCE Ryan
BEAUCHEMIN Rejean

COBURN Braydon
BISSONNETTE Paul
BELLE Shawn
CHAPMAN Brennan
SEABROOK Brent
GREEN Mike
COULOMBE Patrick

PLATT Geoff
ROUSSIN Dan
BOLDUC Alexandre
STEWART Anthony
DIXON Stephen
GETZLAF Ryan
BERNIER Steve
CARTER Jeff
POULIOT Marc-Antoine
COLLITON Jeremy
CROMBEEN B.J.
TARDIF Jamie
CARCILLO Daniel

http://www.iihf.com/hockey/x/0203/W18/0203/scripts/rosters/pg000042.htm
 
Slay said:
Who cares about being "draft-eligible", the young is young. You brought up a few young names from 2002. 2004 has plently of 18 years olds.
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No team at the tournament consists of only 19 year olds. I don't follow.
 
Slay said:
3rd level team?

MUNCE Ryan
BEAUCHEMIN Rejean

COBURN Braydon
BISSONNETTE Paul
BELLE Shawn
CHAPMAN Brennan
SEABROOK Brent
GREEN Mike
COULOMBE Patrick

PLATT Geoff
ROUSSIN Dan
BOLDUC Alexandre
STEWART Anthony
DIXON Stephen
GETZLAF Ryan
BERNIER Steve
CARTER Jeff
POULIOT Marc-Antoine
COLLITON Jeremy
CROMBEEN B.J.
TARDIF Jamie
CARCILLO Daniel

http://www.iihf.com/hockey/x/0203/W18/0203/scripts/rosters/pg000042.htm
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Fair enough. Better roster than I remembered. The Russians beat a strong Canadian team there. Nonetheless- generally speaking- Canada has the strongest '85 group. One loss here or there really doesn't change that (they won that tournament's gold medal, right?). Russia is always strong and is probably a bit better than Canada for '86. So far, for '87s I'd go with Canada but the U.S. isn't far behind. Don't know Russia's 87's too well yet.
 
ar_emihcrd said:
I need to buy you a good cup of Russian tea so we could sit down and you could absorb this better. You won't believe how that stuff clears up the mind.

Bring on the World Juniors!!!... and hopefully intelligent discussion from now on.
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I don't need to absorb any of this information any differently from what I have been doing. My original remark was that the russian team was one dimentional and I stand by those comments. Compared to other top level teams like USA, Canada and Czech Republic I feel Russia doesn't have the defensive awareness nor the strength away from the puck that these teams have. Their main force is offense, I am not saying they aren't strong at times. Strength on the puck and strength away from the puck are totally different things.

The remark you made about this team's defense being stronger then the 2003 defense core is still getting to me. I don't know what you mean by stronger. If you mean better allround then Im sorry by you are way off the ball. If by stronger you mean bigger and more physical. You may be correct by that isn't allways good. A team like USA who has great overall speed may have their way with a team like this. Even a team like Sweden who are known for a great transition game may have their way with this defense.
 
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steblick said:
Canada has the strongest '85 group.
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I am not argueing about that. I am only pointing that they are beatable and shouldn't wear the gold medals on their necks beforehand.
 
steblick said:
Fair enough. Better roster than I remembered. The Russians beat a strong Canadian team there. Nonetheless- generally speaking- Canada has the strongest '85 group. One loss here or there really doesn't change that (they won that tournament's gold medal, right?). Russia is always strong and is probably a bit better than Canada for '86. So far, for '87s I'd go with Canada but the U.S. isn't far behind. Don't know Russia's 87's too well yet.
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I feel Canada is leaps and bounds ahead of compititon for 87. Sure USA has Fritsche, Kessel and Johnsson but Canada has the likes of Crosby, Brule, Bertram, Bourret, O'Marra ect. Russia is extremely weak with their 87 crew. You would probably know better then me but I think I heard that Russia may not have anyone in the first round during that draft year.
 
JasonMacIsaac said:
The remark you made about this team's defense being stronger then the 2003 defense core is still getting to me.
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You're tough to talk to because you don't read. Re-read my posts and we can chat some more.

I don't think I was rude - not the intended impression. This is a happy time - World Juniors man! Celebrate! I've got my booze here.
 
ar_emihcrd said:
It's way better than the 2002 gold medal-winning team and their blueline in size and experience compares to the 2003 team.
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Got ya, I agree there. They are big and they are made up mainly of 85's. I don't think that gives them a distinct advantage though. I guess they figure they clear the net and allow Khudobin to make the first and only save. I think thier downfall is when they play vs a fast team, I feel that blueline will get burned.

I am also not angry at you, just friendly debate.
 
I think Radulov would make Team Canada, players like Alexander are welcome addition to any team. If he makes team Canada he barely makes it.
 
JasonMacIsaac said:
I feel Russia doesn't have the defensive awareness nor the strength away from the puck that these teams have. Their main force is offense, I am not saying they aren't strong at times.
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Every Russian line has a good defensive specialist.
 
JasonMacIsaac said:
Got ya, I agree there. They are big and they are made up mainly of 85's. I don't think that gives them a distinct advantage though. I guess they figure they clear the net and allow Khudobin to amek the first and only save. I think thier downfall is when they play vs a fast team, I feel that blueline will get burned.

I am also not angry at you, just friendly debate.
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Arguing distinct advantages is a matter of opinion. I do like this blueline - if it does't play well I will blame the coaches.

btw, Khudobin makes a great second effort every time. He should be better than Barulin.
 
ar_emihcrd said:
Arguing distinct advantages is a matter of opinion. I do like this blueline - if it does't play well I will blame the coaches.

btw, Khudobin makes a great second effort every time. He should be better than Barulin.
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I agree. I wasn't solid on Barulin at all but then again he didn't have much help on the blueline last year. That may have been their worst defense in a long time.

I just think a team like USA matches up perfect against Russia. USA has a fast puck moving defense and loads of speed to boot up front. Russia won't be able to overpower then downlow.
 
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