Post-Game Talk: Figures, Jets lose in OT 4-3

[gojetsgo]

You said, "two weeks ago it looked like it was only one wc spot available now look" as thought there had been some sort of progress. Two spots being equally out of reach instead of one out of reach and another even further out of reach is not progress.

I'm not sure DeBrusk helps us. He is a pending RFA with a high QO (4.85 mil) and arb eligible. He can be a UFA in 2 more years, if not signed long term. He has never produced at a level that would justify a nearly 5 mil AAV. I don't think we could afford his contract next year. At least not easily, unless we move out some cap hit from our D corps.

6 and 7 points with 1/3rd of the season left is not out of reach.... two weeks ago dallas was 7 points behind the preds, now they are 1 point ahead....

debrusk is also willing to discuss an extension to help make a trade happen...

and bottom line is if people still want to cheer for this team to win let them, we have a tank thread for you guys to go cheer for us to lose

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I guess you're right, Ehlers and DeMelo definitely look alike so I can see how the ref made that mistake.

The concept of the team being punished for the actions of individuals has been around since the days of Evander Kane. You know this.

 

[gojetsgo]

The concept of the team being punished for the actions of individuals has been around since the days of Evander Kane. You know this.

the concept of ref's managing the game has been around for longer

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

the concept of ref's managing the game has been around for longer

And you think biases don't creep into their game management decisions? Look, this has been discussed before. As I said, back in the day there was plenty of talk that the team didn't get favourable calls because Kane was constantly bitching at the refs. Was it true? Who knows. But it's something to consider as a team. Don't say and do things that can get you on the bad side of the officials.

 

[bennylundholm]

Best at what?

I love Ehlers but right now he's the best bet we have to fall down.

I'm too lazy to rewind the PVR but it looked like Ehlers fell down six times without anyone contacting him.

There's no point in moving so fast that you can't keep your skates under you.

Unbelievable.

 

[gojetsgo]

And you think biases don't creep into their game management decisions? Look, this has been discussed before. As I said, back in the day there was plenty of talk that the team didn't get favourable calls because Kane was constantly bitching at the refs. Was it true? Who knows. But it's something to consider as a team. Don't say and do things that can get you on the bad side of the officials.

they gave us 6 powerplays earlier in the game, they didn't just remember that they didn't like ehlers/jets in that moment, they just didn't want to be the reason a team lost so they let it go ironically causing a team to lose

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

6 and 7 points with 1/3rd of the season left is not out of reach.... two weeks ago dallas was 7 points behind the preds, now they are 1 point ahead....

debrusk is also willing to discuss an extension to help make a trade happen...

and bottom line is if people still want to cheer for this team to win let them, we have a tank thread for you guys to go cheer for us to lose

I think you are missing the significance of the number of teams we need to pass. If all we had to do was make up 6-7 pts on one team, it would be extremely difficult in 27 games - but not impossible. Though I wonder what it is you have seen from this team this year that makes you think they are catching anyone.

We need to overtake 4 teams. That means that not 1 of them can match the points we collect the rest of the season.

Van has 1 less game remaining than we do. If they pick up 1 fewer pt the rest of the way, we don't pass them. OTOH, if we win the game in hand and pick up 1 point more than them the rest of the way, we pass them. But Van has been playing very well. We probably don't pass them.

Anaheim has 2 fewer games to play ans is 3 pts ahead. They have been even worse than us lately. Win the 2 in hand is all we need to do to pass them. I like our chances there. One down.

Edmonton has played the same number of games as us and are 6 pts ahead. They've been playing pretty well recently. We need to get hot AND they need to slump. Their goaltending is unreliable. It has been better recently. Maybe it is due to go back in the sewer. Ours hasn't been great lately either though. I won't be surprised if we pick up a few points on them, but 6 will be tough. We will need them to help out by losing quite a lot.

Nashville is sinking. They are also 6 pts in front and they have a game in hand. But if they continue slumping and we can put together a little winning streak, they can be had. Lets say we can pick up the points on either Edm OR Nash. Both is unlikely, but count Nashville as a second one down.

Dallas is 7 ahead of us and has a game in hand. They have been playing very well lately and are gaining points on us. I don't like our chances there either.

So if we start playing better AND a couple of the teams ahead of us fade a little or continue slumping, maybe we pass two. Maybe it is not even the 2 I picked. Maybe they both get as hot as we do and we pass the 2 others instead. But first we need to get hot, then we pass 2 of them. If we keep up the way we have gone all year so far, we pass no one.

If you still want to cheer for this team, go ahead. I'm not stopping you. I commented on last night's game. It was a must win, IMO. A clean win, not any 3 pointer. We didn't. That was about the 5th 'last chance, must win this one' for me. I don't think I have any more chances in me.

Was I the only negative poster in this thread? Hmmm, over 200 posts and counting. How many were positive?

I am now looking past this season. I think it is important for Chevy to do the same.

 

[tbcwpg]

The concept of the team being punished for the actions of individuals has been around since the days of Evander Kane. You know this.

I think it's to do with having called a lot of penalties against Dallas and not wanting to "decide the game" with a penalty, and nothing to do with maybe Ehlers went down a bit easily two periods ago, since they called a bunch more against Dallas after that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

they gave us 6 powerplays earlier in the game, they didn't just remember that they didn't like ehlers/jets in that moment, they just didn't want to be the reason a team lost so they let it go ironically causing a team to lose

And therein lies the problem with the whole concept of refs 'managing' the game. They need to just call what they see, consistently. The players will take penalties, determining the outcome of the game, or they will not take penalties, determining the outcome of the game. By their play - either with or without penalties.

Refs need to learn that they determine the outcomes just as much by what they don't call as by what they do call. All they need to do is be consistent.

 

[WolfHouse]

Ehlers is such a disgusting little diver I wouldn't be surprised if some of these were attempts at drawing a penalty. Maybe these "falls" were in the back of the ref's mind when that potentially game-changing cross check wasn't called. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

So far you are in the lead for hot take of the day

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

A look at the whole Wheeler shift in O/T
As you can see Wheeler jumped on the ice at the 1:01 mark. I looked further back to see when Robertson first came on the ice. Robertson had come on the ice at the 2:07 mark after a whistle (See the picture below, Robertson is the winger #21).

There was a quick play and a stoppage at 2:01. So, basically, Robertson was on the ice for 1 whole minute before Wheeler came onto the ice.

Not looking to blame Wheeler at all, just a look at the whole sequence.

Watch where Robertson and Wheezer are when the race for the puck starts. They start dead even near the top of the circle in the Stars zone. Somehow, Robertson has Wheezer by 10 feet after a couple seconds.

This after Robertson has been on the ice for a full minute longer than Wheezer.

So Wheezer is either lacking stamina now, just too slow or both.

When there is so much open ice in OT, he is not the guy that should be out there. There was a time, when yes. But no longer

 

[Guardian17]

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

And Connor is doing it in an era when goals are not so easy to come by.

 

[gojetsgo]

I think you are missing the significance of the number of teams we need to pass. If all we had to do was make up 6-7 pts on one team, it would be extremely difficult in 27 games - but not impossible. Though I wonder what it is you have seen from this team this year that makes you think they are catching anyone.

We need to overtake 4 teams. That means that not 1 of them can match the points we collect the rest of the season.

Van has 1 less game remaining than we do. If they pick up 1 fewer pt the rest of the way, we don't pass them. OTOH, if we win the game in hand and pick up 1 point more than them the rest of the way, we pass them. But Van has been playing very well. We probably don't pass them.

Anaheim has 2 fewer games to play ans is 3 pts ahead. They have been even worse than us lately. Win the 2 in hand is all we need to do to pass them. I like our chances there. One down.

Edmonton has played the same number of games as us and are 6 pts ahead. They've been playing pretty well recently. We need to get hot AND they need to slump. Their goaltending is unreliable. It has been better recently. Maybe it is due to go back in the sewer. Ours hasn't been great lately either though. I won't be surprised if we pick up a few points on them, but 6 will be tough. We will need them to help out by losing quite a lot.

Nashville is sinking. They are also 6 pts in front and they have a game in hand. But if they continue slumping and we can put together a little winning streak, they can be had. Lets say we can pick up the points on either Edm OR Nash. Both is unlikely, but count Nashville as a second one down.

Dallas is 7 ahead of us and has a game in hand. They have been playing very well lately and are gaining points on us. I don't like our chances there either.

So if we start playing better AND a couple of the teams ahead of us fade a little or continue slumping, maybe we pass two. Maybe it is not even the 2 I picked. Maybe they both get as hot as we do and we pass the 2 others instead. But first we need to get hot, then we pass 2 of them. If we keep up the way we have gone all year so far, we pass no one.

If you still want to cheer for this team, go ahead. I'm not stopping you. I commented on last night's game. It was a must win, IMO. A clean win, not any 3 pointer. We didn't. That was about the 5th 'last chance, must win this one' for me. I don't think I have any more chances in me.

Was I the only negative poster in this thread? Hmmm, over 200 posts and counting. How many were positive?

I am now looking past this season. I think it is important for Chevy to do the same.

yes it's unlikely but not impossible, we would have to jump multiple teams but given how close those teams are in the standings it could be a pass 1 pass all situation, I've already seen teams win a game and move up 3 spots into the playoffs, if the teams were chasing play each other we'd need the team lower in the standings to win so teams don't get too far ahead


yes there was a bunch of negative posts, but you pretty much told someone who wanted the jets to win that he shouldn't..

 

[surixon]

The teams problems with defending their own defensive zone, and with generating good scoring chances in the offensive zone, are both directly related to coaching philosophy imo.

They really struggle with defending against opponents who use a lot of player rotation and motion when attacking us. We have discussed the chaos that results when they try to defend attacks utilizing m2m coverages( players pulled out of position; difficulty starting any defensive zone breakouts;etc)

But they also struggle with generating good scoring chances, both 5v5 and when on the PP, because they refuse to incorporate player rotation and motion into their own attacks. The players primarily stay in predictable, static positions, with no means to pull defenders out of position and break down defensive structure. As a consequence, our puck movement itself is rather easily contained to the perimeter and low-danger shots.

Yup this organization is falling further and further behind. We insist on using outdated philosophies and deployment.

We really can't afford to fall even further behind. We need a complete overhaul in coaching and organizational philosophy this offseason.

 

[surixon]

I think you are missing the significance of the number of teams we need to pass. If all we had to do was make up 6-7 pts on one team, it would be extremely difficult in 27 games - but not impossible. Though I wonder what it is you have seen from this team this year that makes you think they are catching anyone.

We need to overtake 4 teams. That means that not 1 of them can match the points we collect the rest of the season.

Van has 1 less game remaining than we do. If they pick up 1 fewer pt the rest of the way, we don't pass them. OTOH, if we win the game in hand and pick up 1 point more than them the rest of the way, we pass them. But Van has been playing very well. We probably don't pass them.

Anaheim has 2 fewer games to play ans is 3 pts ahead. They have been even worse than us lately. Win the 2 in hand is all we need to do to pass them. I like our chances there. One down.

Edmonton has played the same number of games as us and are 6 pts ahead. They've been playing pretty well recently. We need to get hot AND they need to slump. Their goaltending is unreliable. It has been better recently. Maybe it is due to go back in the sewer. Ours hasn't been great lately either though. I won't be surprised if we pick up a few points on them, but 6 will be tough. We will need them to help out by losing quite a lot.

Nashville is sinking. They are also 6 pts in front and they have a game in hand. But if they continue slumping and we can put together a little winning streak, they can be had. Lets say we can pick up the points on either Edm OR Nash. Both is unlikely, but count Nashville as a second one down.

Dallas is 7 ahead of us and has a game in hand. They have been playing very well lately and are gaining points on us. I don't like our chances there either.

So if we start playing better AND a couple of the teams ahead of us fade a little or continue slumping, maybe we pass two. Maybe it is not even the 2 I picked. Maybe they both get as hot as we do and we pass the 2 others instead. But first we need to get hot, then we pass 2 of them. If we keep up the way we have gone all year so far, we pass no one.

If you still want to cheer for this team, go ahead. I'm not stopping you. I commented on last night's game. It was a must win, IMO. A clean win, not any 3 pointer. We didn't. That was about the 5th 'last chance, must win this one' for me. I don't think I have any more chances in me.

Was I the only negative poster in this thread? Hmmm, over 200 posts and counting. How many were positive?

I am now looking past this season. I think it is important for Chevy to do the same.

It's just more enjoyable for me to cheer for them to play well and win then it is for me to cheer for them to lose and tank. Yeah chances are they miss but ipl keep cheering for good performances.

 

[tbcwpg]

yes it's unlikely but not impossible, we would have to jump multiple teams but given how close those teams are in the standings it could be a pass 1 pass all situation, I've already seen teams win a game and move up 3 spots into the playoffs, if the teams were chasing play each other we'd need the team lower in the standings to win so teams don't get too far ahead


yes there was a bunch of negative posts, but you pretty much told someone who wanted the jets to win that he shouldn't..

The problem is that, yes, maybe a win moves you up two spots, but there are 3 teams in between and it's likely that these teams also put up points. The Jets play a lot of Eastern opponents coming up so the opportunities to win games against these teams are slim.

In fact, the Jets don't play Edmonton anymore, no games against Anaheim, Dallas, Nashville. One game against LA, 2 against Vegas. They've missed big opportunities with the recent losses to Dallas and Edmonton. It's not impossible, no, but it's very very difficult.

 

[gojetsgo]

The problem is that, yes, maybe a win moves you up two spots, but there are 3 teams in between and it's likely that these teams also put up points. The Jets play a lot of Eastern opponents coming up so the opportunities to win games against these teams are slim.

In fact, the Jets don't play Edmonton anymore, no games against Anaheim, Dallas, Nashville. One game against LA, 2 against Vegas. They've missed big opportunities with the recent losses to Dallas and Edmonton. It's not impossible, no, but it's very very difficult.

I know it likely won't happen, I just don't like when people say it's impossible and try to get people to cheer for the tank, if people want to cheer for the team to win let them..(not directed at you)

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

yes it's unlikely but not impossible, we would have to jump multiple teams but given how close those teams are in the standings it could be a pass 1 pass all situation, I've already seen teams win a game and move up 3 spots into the playoffs, if the teams were chasing play each other we'd need the team lower in the standings to win so teams don't get too far ahead


yes there was a bunch of negative posts, but you pretty much told someone who wanted the jets to win that he shouldn't..

Fair enough.

 

[DRW204]

Watch where Robertson and Wheezer are when the race for the puck starts. They start dead even near the top of the circle in the Stars zone. Somehow, Robertson has Wheezer by 10 feet after a couple seconds.

This after Robertson has been on the ice for a full minute longer than Wheezer.

So Wheezer is either lacking stamina now, just too slow or both.

When there is so much open ice in OT, he is not the guy that should be out there. There was a time, when yes. But no longer

jason robertson is 13 years younger than wheeler. might have something to do with it too.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's just more enjoyable for me to cheer for them to play well and win then it is for me to cheer for them to lose and tank. Yeah chances are they miss but ipl keep cheering for good performances.

I will mostly cheer for individual players to have good performances in a losing cause.

This is the first time - in all the years that we have had negative results and tank threads - that I find myself actually wanting to lose. In the past, I always have wanted to win each game, 1 at a time as they happen, in spite of wanting to finish as low as possible. I even enjoyed it the year we finished by winning our last 7 games, or whatever it was. Hurt our draft position, but it was fun at the time.

Even yesterday, I started out preferring a loss TBH. But was cheering for the win after we tied it at 2 and then went ahead 3-2.

I'm very conflicted.

But I want it to be abundantly clear to Chevy that he needs to sell. If we miss the PO and haven't sold Copp and Stastny, I will be extremely PO'ed at Chevy. I may never forgive him. I think that would be Chiarelli level bad GM'ing.

 

[MardyBum]

jason robertson is 13 years younger than wheeler. might have something to do with it too.

Damn, really?

Someone should really think about managing Wheeler's minutes

 

[snowkiddin]

That’s some good company.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

DAMN! It's still early but Dallas' 2017 draft appears to be an embarrassment of riches.

3rd overall - Miro Heiskanen - a #1 NHL Defenseman - one of the best young d-man in the league, probably a top-15 d man in the league overall
26th overall - Jake Oettinger - looks like a #1 goalie with a .922 save percentage this season, still early of course.
39th overall - Jason Robertson - already over a point-per-game player this season, above-average first line NHL player already, trending toward elite.
132nd overall - Jacob Peterson - might be trending towards 3rd line potential.

Dallas has a top-10 farm system too. Minnesota has what many consider to be a top-5 farm system. Road to the playoffs in future seasons will be tough for the Jets.

 

[DRW204]

DAMN! It's still early but Dallas' 2017 draft appears to be an embarrassment of riches.

3rd overall - Miro Heiskanen - a #1 NHL Defenseman - one of the best young d-man in the league, probably a top-15 d man in the league overall
26th overall - Jake Oettinger - looks like a #1 goalie with a .922 save percentage this season, still early of course.
39th overall - Jason Robertson - already over a point-per-game player this season, above-average first line NHL player already, trending toward elite.
132nd overall - Jacob Peterson - might be trending towards 3rd line potential.

Dallas has a top-10 farm system too. Minnesota has what many consider to be a top-5 farm system. Road to the playoffs in future seasons will be tough for the Jets.

idk about the conclusion that they have a top-10 farm. but two players that usually catch my eye when watching or reading up on this team. Jason Robertson and Roope Hintz - both 2nd rd picks. Whether it be luck, developing, scouting... whatever it is, wish we could nab players that can put up 51 pts/46 gp or 45 pts/52 pts in the 2nd (or later) rounds.