Fighting has to go

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ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
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Oh man we had this conversation so many times that idk what i should add to my argument that fighting should stay .

Ok i'll try another POV that i believe i never used before :

The day teams will stop trying to neutralize the surperstar players from other team with questionable tactics, tactics like crosscheck, hit to the head , intent to injure and all the other cheapshots in the book is the day were we'll have clean hockey.

When this day will happend ( and trust me i have time to die b4 it does ) is the day where hockey wont need fighters anymore . Until then , think about fighting as a consequence of the refusal to change things.

Why do you think Zack kassian is playing with McDavid ? Do you think it's a coïncidences that Ryan Reaves is now with the Rangers or we already forgot what happend last year with the Caps.
People dont find it weird that a skilled team like Colorado who had no enforcer to protect his star players always end up in the playoffs with multiple injures because they get run over year after year .
People dont wonder why Tampa ran into a wall for a few years and as soon as they add sandpaper guys to their roster ( aka Pat f***ing Maroon , just to name one ) they win two cups in a row ?

Like i said, all this is a consequence of the intimidation that other teams are doing against good players and utill this intimidation is ni longer part of the daily hockey playbook then there's a place for fighting.

It's really sad to say and i'm against it , but the old saying is still valid: if you want peace prepare for war.
To me this shows that the NHL has been unable to properly police the game, both through officiating and through supplemental discipline.

I also think people like to conflate "grit" and "fighting" in order to assert the importance of fighters specifically.
 

Arthur Morgan

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Jul 6, 2016
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Time to grandfather fighting out, just as with mandatory visors. Make it illegal to fight if you have a visor on. At the very least stop the fight the moment a helmet falls off. Seeing guys break hands on helmets and visors has gotten so old.
but they already step in once the helmet comes off.
and what exactly are you expecting to get better by taking fighting out?
is it the head injuries?
more head injuries happen from hitting over fighting.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
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No it doesn't. Penalize dirty shit with lengthier suspensions, it'll be much more effective.



Care to elaborate?

Anyone bringing up the old discussion, already discussed and dismissed many times, of banning fighting in NHL hockey is showing a blatant lack of understanding of the the fundamentals of NHL hockey.

In NHL hockey, the ice is smaller and the game is about competing for possession of a single tiny puck, competing physically for a single area/space where the puck is or might go, or competing for a space where one might score or prevent a scoring chance, there is a lot of highly competitive, physical battles that are fought. Eventually someone will win, lose or tie in the dozens and dozens of these battles that take place each period, each game. In fact, winning these battles is pretty much the main point of the game and the score is usually there as an indicator of who won the most (or at least the most significant) battles on the ice.

Inevitably there will games where one team wins several battles consecutively over the other and achieves a significant advantage in momentum and morale. And if that momentum is not stopped, the game outcome will inevitably be against the other team and in order for that other team to have a chance, they must do something drastic to halt that winning team's momentum.

When this situation happens, that's normally when fighting occurs in the NHL and since the time the players got together, both informally as a camaraderie of fellow players and formally to form the NHLPA, they ritualized the process and came up with "fighting". NHL "fighting" is bare-handed with fists, one on one and both combatants will be penalized in order to cool down. Other players, no matter how angry or frustrated, are to watch and cheer from the sidelines and let their frustrations and energy be channeled, then dissipated by the two voluntary combatants. (no foreign objects, no finger gouging of eyes or mouth, no head butts, etc.) Fights last just a couple minutes and end, when the two combatants inevitably run out of breath.

The ritual formed in order to create an understood situation for both teams and prevent two situations: 1) players on their own won't use the possible deadly weapons in their possession on each other including stick blades via hacking, broken stick shafts via spearing, skate blades via slicing, etc.; and 2), all of the players going into a free-for-all.

Basically if there is no fighting, the alternatives are basically players literally killing and maiming each other and it can spread to overall situations that will be akin to rioting, similar to soccer. Imagine if soccer riots turned into situation where each rioter got a hockey stick and two knives on their feet.

Even the audience appreciates these battles as they are, in a way, gentlemanly in their one vs. one voluntary combat, which is intuitively understood as two guys, representing their teams, duking it out fairly and intensely.
 
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PuckThumper11

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Nov 6, 2019
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I disagree. It's part of the game and it's unique. I like hockey more because of it. Is some of it pointless? Sure. But I see it as part of the game and I don't want to see it go. I vote NO.
 

Crabapple

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Jun 17, 2010
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Don't know if I want hockey gone completely, but I wish they were rarer. For example, in the playoffs last season when Perry had to fight whoever it was on the Leafs after Tavares was hurt, that wasn't a necessary fight because it was completely accidental. Last night I don't think Kass needed to fight MacEwan either. I don't think players need to 'answer the bell' as often as they do, keep it for the really egregious stuff.
 
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topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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No it doesnt ,its still in the game because the players want it...Contact sport players can get hurt ,everyone that plays them knows the risk
 

Arthur Morgan

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Atleast hitting is a legitimate hockey play.
okay so I guess we just take a aspect out of the game thats been there for over 100 years because the odd time someone gets injured because of it.... seems completely pointless.

I mean if fighting doesn't even have a stronger track record of head injuries that hitting does. then why take it out?

these guys want to be there. all those enforcers if given the chance would be back doing the exact same thing 100% so whats the point?

There's a reason they make the big bucks.

I would rather see enforcers back 100% into the game. they patrolled the ice. ref wont put an end to the consistent torment of our star players. the players we pay to watch. the enforcers put an end to it.

Maybe we would have gotten to see an injury free Crosby if they stayed. but no... we booted them from the game and the best player in the world got injured year after year by bums.

take fighting 100% out of the game and the rats will take over the game and they will bash and beat our stars. there's nothing our players can do to protect them.....

Sound like a great plan
 

Arthur Morgan

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Don't know if I want hockey gone completely, but I wish they were rarer. For example, in the playoffs last season when Perry had to fight whoever it was on the Leafs after Tavares was hurt, that wasn't a necessary fight because it was completely accidental. Last night I don't think Kass needed to fight MacEwan either. I don't think players need to 'answer the bell' as often as they do, keep it for the really egregious stuff.
Yeah I didn't understand why Foligno fought him. seemed completely pointless
maybe u can argue that he could have gotten out of the way. to me in looked like an unavoidable accident and if Tavares fell 1 second earlier or later it would have never happened
 

zar

Bleed Blue
Oct 9, 2010
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Disagree 100%. Fighting should stay in the game. It’s about the only thing that keeps some of these goofs somewhat honest.
 

DearDiary

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Aug 29, 2010
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I disagree. It's part of the game and it's unique. I like hockey more because of it. Is some of it pointless? Sure. But I see it as part of the game and I don't want to see it go. I vote NO.

So true. Getting brain damage is part and parcel of playing in the NHL. If players don't want to fight to uphold the honor and respect of their teammates, if they don't want to do their job which is entertaining us like monkeys, then they should play soccer instead.
 
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Sheppy

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Nov 23, 2011
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So true. Getting brain damage is part and parcel of playing in the NHL. If players don't want to fight to uphold the honor and respect of their teammates, if they don't want to do their job which is entertaining us like monkeys, then they should play soccer instead.
Talk about reaching.

Can you explain to me why 97% of NHL players want fighting to remain in the game? I mean, those guys are the ones dealing with it, no?
 

Whiston532

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Dec 27, 2010
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The fact whole “fighting needs to stay or else things would descend into anarchy” argument feels weird considering (almost?) every other sport seems to manage without it.

heat of the moment stuff and getting at guys for dirty moves I can see, but this idea of “you are obligated to fight now” stuff is just silly, especially for things like DARING to hit a player who might score.
 
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DearDiary

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Aug 29, 2010
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Talk about reaching.

Can you explain to me why 97% of NHL players want fighting to remain in the game? I mean, those guys are the ones dealing with it, no?

Because they're like really smart. They're the best of the best and other best people say they're smart and know how to keep their purse (fans) in. Plus they're like super rich because they keep monkeys like us clapping our cymbals. Ignore all the brain damage clouding their brains, these smart people know a fist fight is keeping fans watching them and keeping steak on their dinner plate each night.
 

noo

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The fact whole “fighting needs to stay or else things would descend into anarchy” argument feels weird considering (almost?) every other sport seems to manage without it.

Hockey isn't like every other sport, though.. it's much faster and players are holding a weapon in their hands all game.. a weapon they'll gladly use, especially if there's no one around to keep you honest.. refs can't (or just don't?) call every single slash, crosscheck, etc.. and if there's no fear players will be hacking at stars all game to get an advantage
 
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Sheppy

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Nov 23, 2011
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Because they're like really smart. They're the best of the best and other best people say they're smart and know how to keep their purse (fans) in. Plus they're like super rich because they keep monkeys like us clapping our cymbals. Ignore all the brain damage clouding their brains, these smart people know a fist fight is keeping fans watching them and keeping steak on their dinner plate each night.
Well, this is like having a discussion with a dried turnip.

Thanks, buddy.
 

Bluto

Don't listen to me, I'm an idiot. TOGA! TOGA!
Dec 24, 2017
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There are 2 kinds of fans

'Reeee he hurt my guy we should ban fighting and hitting reeeeee'

And

'He hurt my guy someone needs to crack his f***ing skull open'

Option 1 is usually a kale eating soyboi loser who cant afford season tickets and thus their opinion doesnt matter.
 

Whiston532

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
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There are 2 kinds of fans

'Reeee he hurt my guy we should ban fighting and hitting reeeeee'

And

'He hurt my guy someone needs to crack his f***ing skull open'

Option 1 is usually a kale eating soyboi loser who cant afford season tickets and thus their opinion doesnt matter.

You can’t even make fun of people like this anymore because because they’ve managed to become far funnier self parodies than anything anyone could possibly make up.
 

Bobby9

Registered User
Feb 10, 2019
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If we lose a Kassian every few years to fighting I’m okay with it.
I love it.
 

KingArthursCourt

pronouns: he/him/his
Nov 11, 2019
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With most of the sports-people worrying about the increasing amount of head injuries in the game it's quite baffling that bare-knuckle fighting on ice in a ball game is still supported by the conservative hockey fan base. It's just stupid macho shit and it does not have a place in modern hockey. Taking them out of the game reduces head-injuries without changing the game in any meaningful way. Just watched the Oilers-game and what a pointless and dangerous looking injury Kassian suffered as a result of that fight.



And you can do it step-by-step. In Finland for a long time there's an automatic 1 game suspension if you fight and that only makes fight very rare. Make it 3 games and fighting virtually stops.

And yeah yeah, world's gone soft and all that but this is hockey with enough toughness and injuries even as it is. I used to think that fights were okay (never was a fan of that aspect of the game TBH) but with all the evidence about the brain damages and even lost lives of NHL-fighters I've come to think otherwise. Would it really be that bad if fighting was banned?


Quite right, excellent post and thread idea.

In a similar manner to the laughably overwrought reaction of some to the Phoenix Coyotes relaxing their stodgy dress code rules, there is a certain cohort of regressive hockey "fans" who want to vainly cling to an atavistic interpretation of what is important in the sport. I put fans in quotes because it frequently seems they care less about the actual playing of the sport itself rather than sideshow aspects - fighting, "class" (wearing suits, short hair, and other 1950s nonsense), buffoonish commentators like Don Cherry and Mike Milbury - which tend to have little or no bearing on the fundamentals: who scores the most goals, who wins the games. It's viewing hockey primarily through a lens in which it's a vehicle to promote a very niche cultural packaging, specifically some sort of blue-collar/farmboy romanticism that has no bearing on how elite athletes are developed and trained in modern society.

The obsession with fighting and its (complete lack of) causual impact on the game is one of the most obvious expressions of this. Which is why the verbiage that surrounds it is so obviously puerile: it's all about proving who's "manly" and "hard" and separating them from who's "soft" and "girly". For the crowd that peaked in high school - which, I suspect, has a lot of overlap with the crowd that prioritizes fights over the actual game play - this is perhaps expected. But as professional sports continue to embrace a more intellectual and modern approach to the game play itself through optimization of strategies, through training and nutrition that aims to produce the best athletes, and through cultivating a wealthier, more educated, more sophisticated fanbase, these sorts of attitudes will be increasingly seen as fringe, long out-of-date, and regressive in terms of the direction in which they would take the sport. Thankfully, the dinosaurs are dying off.
 

Arpeggio

Registered User
Jul 20, 2006
9,261
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Someone will die on the ice in front of 18000 people one day, and that will be the end of fighting in the NHL. Until then, can't see it going anywhere.
 

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
59,026
65,447
The Arctic
Someone will die on the ice in front of 18000 people one day, and that will be the end of fighting in the NHL. Until then, can't see it going anywhere.
I'm willing to bet someone will die because of a dangerous hit before a fight. Hopefully we never have to see either.
 
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