F Trevor Daley - Florida Alliance Elite 14U AAA, 14U AAA (2027 Draft)

[sigx15]

Seeing a player once is very insufficient.

Just because you watched a Florida U15 game doesn't mean you can say: I know these players - they're the best. You must have seen all the others. And there are hundreds of them. And you have to watch them 10 times.

USDP needs an entire army of coordinated scouts. So a single guy is ignorant.

In addition, the guys on the site claim to follow other age categories, so 100% fake.

ok, I'm at the point I can't tell if this dude is completely trolling or just says everything without having a clue what he's talking about at all times

 

[LeProspector]

ok, I'm at the point I can't tell if this dude is completely trolling or just says everything without having a clue what he's talking about at all times

Has been his calling for years now.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

My kid is an 09 and played against these kids all of the time since he was like 7. They played Milo like 8 times last year alone. His team was 1 or 2 in the country all year and they were actually in Chicago. Daley used to play in Detroit. I’ve seen all of these kids grow up and play a ton of times. Seen less of some of the Canadian kids because of Covid shutdowns but seen all of the best ones at least a handful of times.

Regarding talent coming out of non-traditional markets like CA, FL and TX, things have changed a ton over the last 5 years. One of the top us based kids in the country in this upcoming draft is from CA (Connelly). The youth Olympics was carried by a kid from Dallas and a few kids from CA (Torre and Stuart). The WJC was led by a couple of FL Alliance kids in Brindley and Casey. Things are changing pretty quickly.

Your kid doesn't know every player in the country. At 14, I didn't know Pierre-Edouard Bellemare and yet I played on a much tighter circuit.

 

[Oak]

Maybe it's your tone and approach that are the problem? And not just in this thread.

I don't disagree with most of your main points on the issues with social media scouting, etc, but your accusatory nature is really off-putting. You've denigrated others, accused them of monetary motivations for their opinions, and called their opinions baseless without offering any substantiated opinions of your own other than "trust me" declarations. Your cachet is no more substantiated than anyone else here.

I have no problem with you having this sentiment about me, especially since you do not disagree with my main points. I've been known to be too blunt at times, and can be overly critical when I disagree. We are all here just stating opinions and I am stating mine. Sometimes the opinion that goes against the consensus will ruffle some feathers.

 

[Oak]

Exactly this. Just because you don’t agree with other people doesn’t mean they are wrong. A lot of the names are similar to the names you see on puckpreps are because its the same guys at the top of the scoring lists at events time after time. Oak honestly sounds like a disgruntled dad that his kid hasn’t been mentioned yet

Same argument can be flipped that you are a dad or paid employee pumping players. None of what I said can be considered outlandish, it is really just common sense, and I am on an internet forum stating an opinion. Opinions can disagree. Majority of the things on this forum are only opinion, to say anyone is right or wrong can be debated endlessly.

If you look at the 3 things I have said so far none are outlandish. #1 I prefer Pelosi over Dupont. #2 to say Pelosi is a clear #1 in the country is silly at this point in time, and #3 Daley in the conversation for possible #1 or a clear #2 is also silly. These kids are too young for this kind of talk. We should be arguing over 2008s right now, not this birth year.

The fact that I called people out for making statements without true scouting insight besides paid services is why I am offending people, but I don't think that is an unreasonable thing to call out.

 

[bigdog16]

Same argument can be flipped that you are a dad or paid employee pumping players. None of what I said can be considered outlandish, it is really just common sense, and I am on an internet forum stating an opinion. Opinions can disagree. Majority of the things on this forum are only opinion, to say anyone is right or wrong can be debated endlessly.

If you look at the 3 things I have said so far none are outlandish. #1 I prefer Pelosi over Dupont. #2 to say Pelosi is a clear #1 in the country is silly at this point in time, and #3 Daley in the conversation for possible #1 or a clear #2 is also silly. These kids are too young for this kind of talk. We should be arguing over 2008s right now, not this birth year.

The fact that I called people out for making statements without true scouting insight besides paid services is why I am offending people, but I don't think that is an unreasonable thing to call out.

No you disagree with everyones opinions and claim that they are wrong and that you are right. Even though nobody agrees with you.

In your eyes, if anyone says they think Pelosi is the best they are apparently a paid employee pumping players according to you

 

[William H Bonney]

I have no problem with you having this sentiment about me, especially since you do not disagree with my main points. I've been known to be too blunt at times, and can be overly critical when I disagree. We are all here just stating opinions and I am stating mine. Sometimes the opinion that goes against the consensus will ruffle some feathers.

I have no skin in the game on projecting players before their U17 seasons start, though I do enjoy seeing some of the names to follow from various posters, even though the fidelity isn't great and I don't put too much stock into the pre-U17 hype.

If, for example, you don't think Pelosi is the top guy in the '09 class right now while others do, great, I hope you all share your opinions why.

I just think we'd all - yourself included - get more out of the discussions if your approach was anchored in a desire for a good faith engagement instead of an apparent expectation for others to kowtow to your opinion as if it's objective and theirs is subjective. Disagreement is good and well, but not when it comes with accusations towards others of being hobbyists, social media scoutz, or having monetary motivations for their opinions.

 

[clevelandcane]

He plays in the USA now I believe; I don’t live in Québec anymore but my connections who still do say Joseph is better than Scantelbury (and Rozzi for that matter)

He plays for BK Selects in NY on their 14U team.

 

[Trojans86]

He plays in the USA now I believe; I don’t live in Québec anymore but my connections who still do say Joseph is better than Scantelbury (and Rozzi for that matter)

Joseph always looked like a man against boys and when I rate them I try to normalize a little for the kids who are much more advanced physically which will probably catch up to them one day.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Joseph always looked like a man against boys and when I rate them I try to normalize a little for the kids who are much more advanced physically which will probably catch up to them one day.

Joseph plays U18 - the best midget league in North America. Boys who are 2-3 years older than him for the most part.

 

[thebestnic]

Someone in this thread needs a Snickers. Jeesus

 

[WarriorofTime]

If you look at the 3 things I have said so far none are outlandish. #1 I prefer Pelosi over Dupont. #2 to say Pelosi is a clear #1 in the country is silly at this point in time, and #3 Daley in the conversation for possible #1 or a clear #2 is also silly. These kids are too young for this kind of talk. We should be arguing over 2008s right now, not this birth year.

I don't know any specifics of the USNDTP's evaluation process, if I were to guess, it would be something like assembling a watchlist of 120 skaters or so and 10 goalies or so over the summer following the age 14 season, based on what's out there right now, tournaments to date, word of mouth, etc. and then makes a point to follow them and have their people scout them closely during their age 15 season and from there decides which ones to invite to their evaluation camp of about 40 skaters and 5 goalies.

One thing that's always tricky in scouting is the multi-year sample can be helpful for understanding a specific player really well... but you run into the issue where as humans we tend to get "stuck" on our early impressions and we stop being objective in our evaluations. With how rapidly kids bodies are changing and how some kids may rapidly improve from one year to the next at this age, it's important to ensure a fresh perspective in evaluations and not get caught up in your impressions from a year or two prior.

 

[Mathieukferland]

I don't know any specifics of the USNDTP's evaluation process,

I don’t know if it’s the same today, but back when I played AAA in the USA as a 97, it was a a pyramid process essentially. Each state would have a camp where the best roughly 20 players were sent to a district camp (in the case of where I played, Illinois, Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, and Nebraska sent players to the central district camp). From there, each district camp across the country would send roughly 20 players to the national evaluation camp, where the main scouting for NTDP would occur

 

[Oak]

No you disagree with everyones opinions and claim that they are wrong and that you are right. Even though nobody agrees with you.

In your eyes, if anyone says they think Pelosi is the best they are apparently a paid employee pumping players according to you

Well even though a lot of people in my circle are big on Pelosi, nobody is throwing out "#1 in country" besides the puck preps guys right now. Anyone with a right mind knows ranking kids this early is only for the hype, especially with their favoritism toward north east players where they are located. So many kids around the country that can compete for top but you only see the same group of kids that jump from every spring tournament year after year. There are top guys that don't go to any spring stuff yet because they are all money grabs.

So far "everyones opinions" on hfboards are just copy cats who are repeating what puck preps have to say, so technically I am only disagreeing with one opinion, and I will never stop disagreeing with it. Let's agree to disagree and end this back and forth. We can talk again in 2 years.

I have no skin in the game on projecting players before their U17 seasons start, though I do enjoy seeing some of the names to follow from various posters, even though the fidelity isn't great and I don't put too much stock into the pre-U17 hype.

If, for example, you don't think Pelosi is the top guy in the '09 class right now while others do, great, I hope you all share your opinions why.

I just think we'd all - yourself included - get more out of the discussions if your approach was anchored in a desire for a good faith engagement instead of an apparent expectation for others to kowtow to your opinion as if it's objective and theirs is subjective. Disagreement is good and well, but not when it comes with accusations towards others of being hobbyists, social media scoutz, or having monetary motivations for their opinions.

William my issue is that I don't want to list players names on this forum that are this young. I just don't want to do it because I don't think it is right. I also don't want to go into detail about their faults. I don't pump any players even though I do have favorites. If for whatever reason someone pumps a certain player that I watch or makes a thread I will comment on it but even then I will give a reply or two then move on because too much can change over the next 2-3 years.

Now how many times on this forum do we talk about upside versus complete player? It's an extremely difficult task to judge upside and separate the high skill kids who might become top 10 draft picks from others who show to be more complete players, but many people on here love to do it. Skill, skill, skill.... It is the new USA hockey way. Mostly little guys whose chance of continuing dominance in the NHL are slim but they are extremely skilled and if things work out they will dominate at NTDP, do well as early freshman in College, and maybe do well in the NHL. You see if all the time. "So many tools, so much skill, high upside."

I think you would agree that many posters like to pump players who show skill but haven't figured out the game yet. That is the argument I have used against Pelosi being a pure lock for #1 in the country. He has not shown that upside like a Hagens, or a Hughes, but there are players who have who are being misrepresented because they don't play on top teams and don't have a complete game like Pelosi does. It's almost the opposite of what has become a common theme on hfboards. The AAA loop in the country is a circle jerk. If you look at the amount of kids it's very slim and it's mostly rich parents who are ALL IN on hockey and think their kid is nhl bound.

I mean we aren't even talking about Minnesota yet..... There are many kids who aren't in the AAA loop but are extremely good. Also many kids who DO go to top tournaments, are at the top of the list consistently for scoring, but nobody is talking about them. I wonder why? Yes I have an axe to grind but maybe it is my mission to try to make people understand what is going on and how young kids, and parents are being manipulated.

Anyway I do enjoy reading your posts William, you are well spoken and give fair assessments.
Have a good day.

 

[bigdog16]

Well even though a lot of people in my circle are big on Pelosi, nobody is throwing out "#1 in country" besides the puck preps guys right now. Anyone with a right mind knows ranking kids this early is only for the hype, especially with their favoritism toward north east players where they are located. So many kids around the country that can compete for top but you only see the same group of kids that jump from every spring tournament year after year. There are top guys that don't go to any spring stuff yet because they are all money grabs.

So far "everyones opinions" on hfboards are just copy cats who are repeating what puck preps have to say, so technically I am only disagreeing with one opinion, and I will never stop disagreeing with it. Let's agree to disagree and end this back and forth. We can talk again in 2 years.

William my issue is that I don't want to list players names on this forum that are this young. I just don't want to do it because I don't think it is right. I also don't want to go into detail about their faults. I don't pump any players even though I do have favorites. If for whatever reason someone pumps a certain player that I watch or makes a thread I will comment on it but even then I will give a reply or two then move on because too much can change over the next 2-3 years.

Now how many times on this forum do we talk about upside versus complete player? It's an extremely difficult task to judge upside and separate the high skill kids who might become top 10 draft picks from others who show to be more complete players, but many people on here love to do it. Skill, skill, skill.... It is the new USA hockey way. Mostly little guys whose chance of continuing dominance in the NHL are slim but they are extremely skilled and if things work out they will dominate at NTDP, do well as early freshman in College, and maybe do well in the NHL. You see if all the time. "So many tools, so much skill, high upside."

I think you would agree that many posters like to pump players who show skill but haven't figured out the game yet. That is the argument I have used against Pelosi being a pure lock for #1 in the country. He has not shown that upside like a Hagens, or a Hughes, but there are players who have who are being misrepresented because they don't play on top teams and don't have a complete game like Pelosi does. It's almost the opposite of what has become a common theme on hfboards. The AAA loop in the country is a circle jerk. If you look at the amount of kids it's very slim and it's mostly rich parents who are ALL IN on hockey and think their kid is nhl bound.

I mean we aren't even talking about Minnesota yet..... There are many kids who aren't in the AAA loop but are extremely good. Also many kids who DO go to top tournaments, are at the top of the list consistently for scoring, but nobody is talking about them. I wonder why? Yes I have an axe to grind but maybe it is my mission to try to make people understand what is going on and how young kids, and parents are being manipulated.

Anyway I do enjoy reading your posts William, you are well spoken and give fair assessments.
Have a good day.

I am fine with agreeing to disagree with you. Although I think the difference here is me, or nobody for that matter, had claimed that any of the players referenced will be #1 draft picks. Right now, I think Pelosi is the top player. If the draft was tomorrow he would be the guy. It isnt, and I totally understand a lot can happen in the next few years. That may be where the disconnect is between us.

 

[clevelandcane]

I've watched Daley at a couple of the national games here in Plymouth the last couple of days. He's quite impressive. He just has the look of a kid who is in control with the puck and knows what to do. The Alliance team is real good but they are missing at least a kid or two. Daley and Milojevic play every other shift - sometimes with each other, sometimes not.

I like Pelosi better based on what I've seen but here's the thing, it's hard to compare the two because (1) Mount is better overall than the Alliance and (2) Daley and Milojevic have to be exhausted. Playing this level for three games straight with double shifts? That can't be easy.

Bottom line is that both kids are fantastic. It will be interesting to see how they progress.

And oh ya, those Alliance uniforms are really fun.