F Matvei Gridin - Shawinigan Cataractes, QMJHL (2024, 28th, CGY)

[SergeConstantin74]

The Q does well in the Memorial Cup because the best teams load up and they're quite veteran heavy. The mid pack and worst teams in the Q are much worse than the mid pack and worst teams in the O and the Dub. I think that's more the point of comparison by most.

For example, I'd take Guelph and Prince Albert over Blainville Boisbriand every day of the week.

Because 2024 champions Saginaw adding Owen Beck, Rodwin Dionicio, Jorian Donovan, Josh Bloom and Alex Christopoulos wasn't loading?

WHL teams often load and almost never win. The year before, Seattle added Dylan Guenther, Brad Lambert, Colton Dach, Nolan Allan and Luke Prokop, while Kamloops added Olen Zellweger, Ryan Hofer and Jakub Demek.

 

[JPeeper]

Since he was drafted out of the USHL he is AHL eligible already.

Thanks, that's what I thought, but wasn't sure wit the USHL. So hopefully a year in the Q and then in the AHL in 2025-26.

 

[Bounces R Way]

That's just the way it is and it has been discussed before aren't really great arguments for why it should stay that way but whatever. Wasn't my intention to derail the thread. Just seems pretty dumb and inflexible to not have a kid picked 9th overall in 2024 AHL eligible until the Fall of 2026.

Gridin should have a big year points wise wherever he winds up but I do hope it's somewhere with a good coaching staff. Still lots to round out in his game.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

That's just the way it is and it has been discussed before aren't really great arguments for why it should stay that way but whatever. Wasn't my intention to derail the thread. Just seems pretty dumb and inflexible to not have a kid picked 9th overall in 2024 AHL eligible until the Fall of 2026.

Gridin should have a big year points wise wherever he winds up but I do hope it's somewhere with a good coaching staff. Still lots to round out in his game.

There is a good argument: the NHL doesn't want to raid the CHL, take its best players out of the league to place them in the A, and therefore weaken the entire CHL, which means the next wave of prospects coming up are facing even weaker competition. If you wanted to do this, then you'd probably have to bump up the import limit to 3, which isn't going to happen, as parents across Canada as well as Don Cherry would be outraged that spots are being taken away from "good ol' Canadian boys".

 

[Bounces R Way]

There is a good argument: the NHL doesn't want to raid the CHL, take its best players out of the league to place them in the A, and therefore weaken the entire CHL, which means the next wave of prospects coming up are facing even weaker competition. If you wanted to do this, then you'd probably have to bump up the import limit to 3, which isn't going to happen, as parents across Canada as well as Don Cherry would be outraged that spots are being taken away from "good ol' Canadian boys".

That is a good argument yes.

I would say a better one is that the NHL is getting younger and younger every year. The data says that kids are sooner ready to play pro than in years before. They have access to equipment and coaching that are far beyond what prospects had even 15 years ago. Why are we then stunting and stagnating their development by appeasing a league that has the word development right in their mission statement. I'm sure many kids benefit playing their D+2 years in the CHL rather than the AHL, but there's simply no way that's the best option for every drafted prospect out of the league. It's inflexible and nonsensical to suggest the whole league will suffer from the handful of prospects that are deemed ready for the AHL. Some other kid will take their place and get an opportunity to get drafted.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

That is a good argument yes.

I would say a better one is that the NHL is getting younger and younger every year. The data says that kids are sooner ready to play pro than in years before. They have access to equipment and coaching that are far beyond what prospects had even 15 years ago. Why are we then stunting and stagnating their development by appeasing a league that has the word development right in their mission statement. I'm sure many kids benefit playing their D+2 years in the CHL rather than the AHL, but there's simply no way that's the best option for every drafted prospect out of the league. It's inflexible and nonsensical to suggest the whole league will suffer from the handful of prospects that are deemed ready for the AHL. Some other kid will take their place and get an opportunity to get drafted.

I don't think the NHL is getting younger and younger every year simply because modern medicine and better training is allowing veterans to age through the end of their prime and beginning of post prime years better, thus blocking spots for kids. And coaches are still pretty old school: they don't give roster spots to kids unless there's no one else or said kid is such a rockstar and earns it.

The NHL would have to pay the CHL franchises a hefty transfer fee to offset losses of said player in terms of ticket revenue and other business reasons.

Regardless, since Gridin was drafted out of the USHL, he can do one year in Val D'Or, then go to the A with the Wranglers in his 19 year old season.

 

[Bounces R Way]

I don't think the NHL is getting younger and younger every year simply because modern medicine and better training is allowing veterans to age through the end of their prime and beginning of post prime years better, thus blocking spots for kids. And coaches are still pretty old school: they don't give roster spots to kids unless there's no one else or said kid is such a rockstar and earns it.

But it just is though, regardless of whether you think it is or not. Been trending younger for quite a while now.

The NHL would have to pay the CHL franchises a hefty transfer fee to offset losses of said player in terms of ticket revenue and other business reasons.

So go ahead and let them, most NHL teams have plenty to spend especially if it helps protect and hasten their future. To be clear I'm not advocating for no transfer agreement. Just a more flexible one.

 

[wetcoast]

There is a good argument: the NHL doesn't want to raid the CHL, take its best players out of the league to place them in the A, and therefore weaken the entire CHL, which means the next wave of prospects coming up are facing even weaker competition. If you wanted to do this, then you'd probably have to bump up the import limit to 3, which isn't going to happen, as parents across Canada as well as Don Cherry would be outraged that spots are being taken away from "good ol' Canadian boys".

I gave this post a like but the last part wasn't really necessary as most CHL fans are like fans everywhere else they want to see the best hockey players possible.

 

[TopC0rner]

That is a good argument yes.

I would say a better one is that the NHL is getting younger and younger every year. The data says that kids are sooner ready to play pro than in years before. They have access to equipment and coaching that are far beyond what prospects had even 15 years ago. Why are we then stunting and stagnating their development by appeasing a league that has the word development right in their mission statement. I'm sure many kids benefit playing their D+2 years in the CHL rather than the AHL, but there's simply no way that's the best option for every drafted prospect out of the league. It's inflexible and nonsensical to suggest the whole league will suffer from the handful of prospects that are deemed ready for the AHL. Some other kid will take their place and get an opportunity to get drafted.

Well if you look at the data, there's not much movement before age 24. The "getting younger" is mostly 27-29 years old that are more present in the league. In fact, the number of players aged 19-20 has decreased which would point to the CHL age restriction for the AHL a moot point.

Also, while it's interesting, other factors could explain the variations. For example, nothing says that talent is spread evenly between the years, or that players can play their game past 31 evenly from each draft. There's also the fact that there are now more players than before due to the various expansions, and those additional players may have a shorter window in the league (say 27-29) in comparison, increasing the weighting of the players in that age range.

In general, I don't think the AHL is a good development league, especially for younger players.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Well if you look at the data, there's not much movement before age 24. The "getting younger" is mostly 27-29 years old that are more present in the league.

And where are teams finding these mid 20s players to fill out their rosters rather than paying over the hill guys in their 30s?

In fact, the number of players aged 19-20 has decreased which would point to the CHL age restriction for the AHL a moot point.

I don't see at all how that would make it a moot point. You have to be pretty special to play any substantial time in the NHL before your 21st birthday. There's a whole other tier of players in that age range that are too good for the CHL but not ready for an NHL roster spot.

Also, while it's interesting, other factors could explain the variations. For example, nothing says that talent is spread evenly between the years, or that players can play their game past 31 evenly from each draft. There's also the fact that there are now more players than before due to the various expansions, and those additional players may have a shorter window in the league (say 27-29) in comparison, increasing the weighting of the players in that age range.

Yeah I mean, that's all fair. Definitely it points to careers for the middle of the lineup players getting shorter. That's why I think getting a pro opportunity sooner is a good thing for guys looking to prove themselves. If you're on the farm team roster you are closer to that NHL opportunity than anywhere else.

In general, I don't think the AHL is a good development league, especially for younger players.

Why? Chances are if you weren't a top 10 pick or coming from Europe NHL ready you're going to be spending time in the American league. Which is where you get more familiar with the organization and they get more familiar with you. You learn pro systems that junior hockey don't employ, learn how to play pro defense and all the things that come with it, you get familiar with your org's other prospects and develop chemistry, you get access to NHL teams strength and conditioning coaches. Nutrition specialists, skating coaches, etc.

This isn't directed at you but I don't really understand this forum's contempt for the AHL. With how watered down the KHL has become it's the 2nd best hockey league in the world. The style of play is fast and definitely the closest you'll come to familiarizing yourself with the NHL game.

 

[Caser]

 

[CutOnDime97]

Doesn't seem like much in return for him right?

 

[jiboy]

He most likely was never going to go VD so not much leverage

 

[SergeConstantin74]

He most likely was never going to go VD so not much leverage

What’s surprising is that no other team offered more. I’m thinking about Rimouski or Moncton.

 

[Caser]

 

[HighLifeManIsHigh]

He might rip that league to shreds

 

[Zirakzigil]

He might rip that league to shreds

I sure hope so. Was hoping he would be sent to the AHL personally.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Overshadowed a little in his first pro camp by the guys further along but I really liked what I saw from Gridin. Can tell this is a player with a high skill cap. Not making a direct 1 to 1 comparison but I saw some Pastrnak in the games he played. Will be having a quiet period then flash some nice skill to get the inside and fool goalies with his release.

 

[Caser]

 

[Hinterland]

Doesn't seem like much in return for him right?

That trade is starting to look pretty good for Val d'Or now. Shawinigan is tied with Sherbrooke in the Central with Drummondville already 10 points ahead. Drummondville also dominated the lone game between the sides. Gridin also hasn't quite met expectations so far. He's been fair but not really a difference maker in most games. A lot of people claiming that the USHL is better than the Q predicted that Gridin would be dominating the Q. That's not the case. He's clearly behind his USHL pace despite getting heavy minutes with good players.

Meanwhile, I really liked what I saw from Eduard Bondar. I didn't know the player at all but he's been fantastic for a weak Val d'Or team. Given a W by Central scouting on their initial list but I wouldn't be surprised to see him become one of the risers of this season. There are only so many big righty defensemen with such a toolbox. Really polished and mature game as well for such a big kid playing in NA for the first time. In my view he's been Val d'Or's best defenseman so far this season.

 

[Caser]

 

[Caser]

 

[wetcoast]

Because 2024 champions Saginaw adding Owen Beck, Rodwin Dionicio, Jorian Donovan, Josh Bloom and Alex Christopoulos wasn't loading?

WHL teams often load and almost never win. The year before, Seattle added Dylan Guenther, Brad Lambert, Colton Dach, Nolan Allan and Luke Prokop, while Kamloops added Olen Zellweger, Ryan Hofer and Jakub Demek.

I know what you mean and it's kinda wierd that the Q has such a strong Memorial cup showing most years yet far more NHLers come out of the OHL and WHL.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

I know what you mean and it's kinda wierd that the Q has such a strong Memorial cup showing most years yet far more NHLers come out of the OHL and WHL.

It’s an interesting question. If we look at the Quebec Ramparts in 2023, they had a pretty old team at the top. Bolduc, Rochette, Gaucher, Malatesta, and Robidas were all in their final year of CHL play.

I think the actual answer lies in the fact that the QMJHL is able to produce good junior players but hasn’t really been able to produce great NHL players.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I know what you mean and it's kinda wierd that the Q has such a strong Memorial cup showing most years yet far more NHLers come out of the OHL and WHL.

It’s an interesting question. If we look at the Quebec Ramparts in 2023, they had a pretty old team at the top. Bolduc, Rochette, Gaucher, Malatesta, and Robidas were all in their final year of CHL play.

I think the actual answer lies in the fact that the QMJHL is able to produce good junior players but hasn’t really been able to produce great NHL players.

A smaller league helps. Even more playoff teams that aren't really trying in a given year. Generally Q is easiest to make, based on CHL free agent movement when kids get cut/released and where they go