F Juraj Slafkovsky - TPS, Finland U20 (2022 Draft)

[Lottery Lucky]

Slaf is going to be perfect fit for NJD. I think his 200 foot impact potential is reminding me from Nichushkin today, his strength and puck battle effectiveness are very similar to Barkov and Matthews which is a huge praise. I see a lot of comparisons to Rantanen, but i don’t see that kind of offensive ceiling. Maybe a hybrid of Nichushkin and Svechnikov if he reaches his potential.

This is ultimately why I have Cooley as BPA over Slafkovsky, when you comment on his offensive ceiling.

As for a fit with NJ though, Slafkovsky's ceiling is the absolute perfect fit for their current makeup. And he has the potential to be warranted at 2nd overall.

Just comes down to what NJ has in terms of outlook on Cooley Slafkovsky Nemec and Jiricek. I doubt anyone else is considered, despite how highly I think of Joakim Kemell.

 

[Hisch13r]

So how do we square Slaf’s exceedingly mediocre production? There’s the “usage” answer this year (although even with proper usage I doubt it looks good enough to really justify a 2nd overall pick). What about last years mediocre U20 production?

 

[Kaako Kappo]

So how do we square Slaf’s exceedingly mediocre production? There’s the “usage” answer this year (although even with proper usage I doubt it looks good enough to really justify a 2nd overall pick). What about last years mediocre U20 production?

Usage is not a good answer.

Jääkiekon SM-liiga – Liiga.fi

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Here's his game by game TOI. Rookies almost never ever ever start with high ice-time, they have to earn it. Juraj did get a lot of time and didn't make use of it. I've watched a few of his games and did not find him noticeable.

I think that it's fair to be alarmed when a top 3 touted prospect who's physically mature cannot produce in Liiga.

That being said, he did have a good end to his season. But the sample size is small.

 

[Guttersniped]

So how do we square Slaf’s exceedingly mediocre production? There’s the “usage” answer this year (although even with proper usage I doubt it looks good enough to really justify a 2nd overall pick). What about last years mediocre U20 production?

He played 16 games in the U20, that’s a small sample size. Maybe he was hurt?

 

[tobu]

Usage is not a good answer.

Jääkiekon SM-liiga – Liiga.fi

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old.liiga.fi

Here's his game by game TOI. Rookies almost never ever ever start with high ice-time, they have to earn it. Juraj did get a lot of time and didn't make use of it. I've watched a few of his games and did not find him noticeable.

I think that it's fair to be alarmed when a top 3 touted prospect who's physically mature cannot produce in Liiga.

That being said, he did have a good end to his season. But the sample size is small.

The main issue with his production in Liiga I think is the trap hockey they play with overall low scoring. Just look at the football like results of the playoff games.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

The main issue with his production in Liiga I think is the trap hockey they play with overall low scoring. Just look at the football like results of the playoff games.

Sure, but compared to other top 3 prospects coming from Liiga, there's no one even close to such a low scoring season.

I'm really not an expert on Slafkovsky and my opinion on him is based on very few games I've seen from him, but I see him as somewhat of a high risk pick. I'll follow him in WHC and U20s with great interest, though.

He played 16 games in the U20, that’s a small sample size. Maybe he was hurt?

Plus underagers don't tend to score a lot in U20s anyways.

 

[BB88]

The main issue with his production in Liiga I think is the trap hockey they play with overall low scoring. Just look at the football like results of the playoff games.

How does that explain Barkov, Laine, Rantanen, Kakko, Kemell who all put up superior points?

Slaf looks really promising but at 2nd overall his production wasn’t ideal by any means for quaranteed NHL star.

Not to beat Slaf down but your reply doesn’t really explain it when we’ve had multiple top picks produce superiorly

 

[OKR]

How does that explain Barkov, Laine, Rantanen, Kakko, Kemell who all put up superior points?

Slaf looks really promising but at 2nd overall his production wasn’t ideal by any means for quaranteed NHL star.

Not to beat Slaf down but your reply doesn’t really explain it when we’ve had multiple top picks produce superiorly

Can’t really compare when all the players you listed were put in a much better position to score in the first place.

Rantanen was 0,5ppg playing in a scoring line in weak TPS team, Kemell has been Jyp main scoring threat all season, Barkov played fist line center in one of the most dominant Liiga teams ever and Kakko and Laine were constant first line players for a good TPS and Tappara teams.

Slafkovsky has played in U20 and mostly in lower lines because TPS is much better team than Jyp for example, and he only got on PP and scoring lines after impressing and catching fire at the Olympics.

 

[BB88]

Can’t really compare when all the players you listed were put in a much better position to score in the first place.

Rantanen was 0,5ppg playing in a scoring line in weak TPS team, Kemell has been Jyp main scoring threat all season, Barkov played fist line center in one of the most dominant Liiga teams ever and Kakko and Laine were constant first line players for a good TPS and Tappara teams.

Slafkovsky has played in U20 and mostly in lower lines because TPS is much better team than Jyp for example, and he only got on PP and scoring lines after impressing and catching fire at the Olympics.

None of those kids were gifted any minutes, they all had to earn them.

Rantanens scoring potential for example was questioned here around the draft and he put up superior points so it’s only fair to question Slafs as well.

Finnish league is a pro league again, nothing is given, it’s all earned

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Can’t really compare when all the players you listed were put in a much better position to score in the first place.

Rantanen was 0,5ppg playing in a scoring line in weak TPS team, Kemell has been Jyp main scoring threat all season, Barkov played fist line center in one of the most dominant Liiga teams ever and Kakko and Laine were constant first line players for a good TPS and Tappara teams.

Slafkovsky has played in U20 and mostly in lower lines because TPS is much better team than Jyp for example, and he only got on PP and scoring lines after impressing and catching fire at the Olympics.

Then again Kemell started with less ice-time than Juraj, but because he actually started scoring, he was rewarded with more. Like, saying Kemell was Jyp's main scoring threat when he first entered just isn't true, that's not the mindset teams have about their 17 year old rookies.

Kemell first month TOI:

Juraj first month TOI:

You could argue that they "should've" given Juraj more time to figure it out, but that's how it went.

PS: I don't wanna compare the players, just the opportunity they had to start with. IDK who's gonna be better.

 

[stastny12]

Then again Kemell started with less ice-time than Juraj, but because he actually started scoring, he was rewarded with more. Like, saying Kemell was Jyp's main scoring threat when he first entered just isn't true, that's not the mindset teams have about their 17 year old rookies.

Kemell first month TOI:
View attachment 544984

Juraj first month TOI:

View attachment 544985

You could argue that they "should've" given Juraj more time to figure it out, but that's how it went.

PS: I don't wanna compare the players, just the opportunity they had to start with. IDK who's gonna be better.

Okay, but you should include styles of play to comparison. As far as I know, TPS is known for super defensive style of play.

 

[OKR]

None of those kids were gifted any minutes, they all had to earn them.

Rantanens scoring potential for example was questioned here around the draft and he put up superior points so it’s only fair to question Slafs as well.

Finnish league is a pro league again, nothing is given, it’s all earned

Again, totally different scenarios.

Barkov was considered the best Finnish prospect in years and was treated like that from the get go, placed on the same line as PPG Ville Nieminen on his draft season.

Rantanen had made his Liiga debut 3 years prior to being drafted, was given first line minutes, ”A” on his jersey and was on the TPS first powerplay unit on his draft season, due to TPS being weak team at the time. Also very pedestrian stats and play in the National team.

Kemell was Jyp’s main option on offence since the start of the season due to Jyp being broke and third weakest team in the league last season.

Laine played in the top lines and powerplay all season.

Kakko didn’t have as strong TPS team as this years was, so he got to play more top line minutes and powerplay as well.



Slaf had PPG of 0,32, if he was given nearly the amount of powerplay and top unit time as Rantanen or Kemell got he could’ve easily had 0,6ppg as well. Slaf also is much further ahead in his all around game than Kakko, Rantanen or Laine were so his usage hasn’t been nearly the same as their were.

 

[ijuka]

Then again Kemell started with less ice-time than Juraj, but because he actually started scoring, he was rewarded with more. Like, saying Kemell was Jyp's main scoring threat when he first entered just isn't true, that's not the mindset teams have about their 17 year old rookies.

Kemell first month TOI:
View attachment 544984

Juraj first month TOI:

View attachment 544985

You could argue that they "should've" given Juraj more time to figure it out, but that's how it went.

PS: I don't wanna compare the players, just the opportunity they had to start with. IDK who's gonna be better.

True. Kemell played mostly on the 3rd line, with total plugs.

Okay, but you should include styles of play to comparison. As far as I know, TPS is known for super defensive style of play.

TPS scored more goals than JYP so what exactly is your point?

Kemell was Jyp’s main option on offence since the start of the season due to Jyp being broke and third weakest team in the league last season.

Kakko didn’t have as strong TPS team as this years was, so he got to play more top line minutes and powerplay as well.


Slaf had PPG of 0,32, if he was given nearly the amount of powerplay and top unit time as Rantanen or Kemell got he could’ve easily had 0,6ppg as well. Slaf also is much further ahead in his all around game than Kakko, Rantanen or Laine were so his usage hasn’t been nearly the same as their were.

The first part is obviously not true, otherwise he wouldn't have played with 3rd liner plugs the entire time. Who did Kemell play with the entire time again, Samuli Helenius? Yeah, seems like a serious offensive threat reserved for your team's "main option on offence". And the other one was Valkeejärvi. Kemell forced JYP to give him more ice time and responsibility with his play. Slafkovsky, on the other hand, constantly received more responsibility and ice time than his production or effectiveness suggested he should. Indeed, their situations were different, but in a way opposite from what you're implying.

Slafkovsky further ahead in his all around game than Kakko? The main reason he didn't receive so much ice time is because of the struggles in his all around game. His defensive game is pretty much a train wreck and he's lost without the puck.

 

[OKR]

True. Kemell played mostly on the 3rd line, with total plugs.



TPS scored more goals than JYP so what exactly is your point?

The first part is obviously not true, otherwise he wouldn't have played with 3rd liner plugs the entire time. Who did Kemell play with the entire time again, Samuli Helenius? Yeah, seems like a serious offensive threat reserved for your team's "main option on offence". And the other one was Valkeejärvi. Kemell forced JYP to give him more ice time and responsibility with his play. Slafkovsky, on the other hand, constantly received more responsibility and ice time than his production or effectiveness suggested he should. Indeed, their situations were different, but in a way opposite from what you're implying.

Slafkovsky further ahead in his all around game than Kakko? The main reason he didn't receive so much ice time is because of the struggles in his all around game. His defensive game is pretty much a train wreck and he's lost without the puck.

I’m honestly just glad you disagree because your opinions are always dreadful lol

But Kakko was very sheltered, never had to do the heavy lifting in the defensive end and getting almost purely O-zone starts. Slafkovsky hasn’t been, and he isn’t offensively as gifted as Kakko and still he is expected to go 2nd overall so i guess not everyone agrees with your view on his game.

 

[ijuka]

I’m honestly just glad you disagree because your opinions are always dreadful lol

But Kakko was very sheltered, never had to do the heavy lifting in the defensive end and getting almost purely O-zone starts. Slafkovsky hasn’t been, and he isn’t offensively as gifted as Kakko and still he is expected to go 2nd overall so i guess not everyone agrees with your view on his game.

That's why it's not just my opinion, but also comments from various different TPS fans over the seasons. I have my own opinion as well, here however I wasn't exactly giving an opinion. It for example is not an opinion that Kemell played with Helenius. The Slafkovsky one is both what I've watched and also various comments by TPS fans during various games(to verify I'm not just seeing things). But thanks for making it personal.

And I'm not sure I'd call someone else's opinion dreadful with a "lol" if I had said: "Kemell was Jyp’s main option on offence since the start of the season". It's honestly barely worth even replying at that point since you clearly had not watched a single game JYP played. Be honest, was it new info to you that Kemell played with 4th line plugs the entire time? Before the season started, even Lambert was far ahead of Kemell in everyone's expectations. The entire statement's ridiculous.

By all means, think that Slafkovsky played a complete and defensively solid game in Liiga, nothing's stopping you. Think also that his lack of production is just luck, or a conspiracy with the coach having something personally against him. Perhaps you're correct.

 

[Hisch13r]

Plus underagers don't tend to score a lot in U20s anyways.

I mean Rantanen had 18 in 17 in his D-1. Hintz had 38 in 29. Aho had 59 in 44. Kakko had 55 in 38. Kemell being one of those guys and he had 36 in 38. Puljujarvi had 18 in 11 which is the same that Slaf had this year in his DY but Puljujarvi did it with 12 goals while Slaf did it with 12 assists. It's a clear step down.

 

[stastny12]

I mean Rantanen had 18 in 17 in his D-1. Hintz had 38 in 29. Aho had 59 in 44. Kakko had 55 in 38. Kemell being one of those guys and he had 36 in 38. Puljujarvi had 18 in 11 which is the same that Slaf had this year in his DY but Puljujarvi did it with 12 goals while Slaf did it with 12 assists. It's a clear step down.

What about these guys and Olympics? How many goals did they score there back then?

 

[tmlmatus]

What about these guys and Olympics? How many goals did they score there back then?

They are discussing his performance during league play; not the Olympics. I like Slaf as much as any other guy; and obviously the scouts like his potential as well. But there is no denying that his Liiga performance hasn't been exactly exceptional.

 

[Guttersniped]

I mean Rantanen had 18 in 17 in his D-1. Hintz had 38 in 29. Aho had 59 in 44. Kakko had 55 in 38. Kemell being one of those guys and he had 36 in 38. Puljujarvi had 18 in 11 which is the same that Slaf had this year in his DY but Puljujarvi did it with 12 goals while Slaf did it with 12 assists. It's a clear step down.

Ratanen was in age 17 season in his D-1 year, he has an October birth. That was the equivalent of Slafkovsky’s current season.

They had practically identical production in the Liiga and Slafkovsky produced more in his shorter stint U20 that season.

Ratanen was thought highly of in part on the potential he showed in games on the National team, where he scored a lot and had a lot of NHL projectable skills. Arguing Ratanen was somehow different at the same age is wrong, there was just another season before he was drafted.

Ratanen had a worse PPG in the U20 in his age 16 season, 0.69 vs 0.81. And Ratanen played 35 games in the U20 season that year vs. 16 games.

I have real trouble with getting hung up on the raw production with 16 games in a junior league a year ago. That’s a small amount of games and there’s zero context. (Like why did he play only 16 games?) I looked to see if he was injured, gave up when I didn’t find anything quickly since I don’t that much honestly.

 

[Hisch13r]

Ratanen was in age 17 season in his D-1 year, he has an October birth. That was the equivalent of Slafkovsky’s current season.

They had practically identical production in the Liiga and Slafkovsky produced more in his shorter stint U20 that season.

Ratanen was thought highly of in part on the potential he showed in games on the National team, where he scored a lot and had a lot of NHL projectable skills. Arguing Ratanen was somehow different at the same age is wrong, there was just another season before he was drafted.

Ratanen had a worse PPG in the U20 in his age 16 season, 0.69 vs 0.81. And Ratanen played 35 games in the U20 season that year vs. 16 games.

I have real trouble with getting hung up on the raw production with 16 games in a junior league a year ago. That’s a small amount of games and there’s zero context. (Like why did he play only 16 games?) I looked to see if he was injured, gave up when I didn’t find anything quickly since I don’t that much honestly.

I mean it’s not the be all end all but I do think his lackluster production needs to be considered heavily for a 2nd overall pick

 

[Kaako Kappo]

I mean Rantanen had 18 in 17 in his D-1. Hintz had 38 in 29. Aho had 59 in 44. Kakko had 55 in 38. Kemell being one of those guys and he had 36 in 38. Puljujarvi had 18 in 11 which is the same that Slaf had this year in his DY but Puljujarvi did it with 12 goals while Slaf did it with 12 assists. It's a clear step down.

Ah, I thought we were talking about WHJC U20s.

In U20 Liiga he's over PPG; seems fine to me.

 

[Guttersniped]

I mean it’s not the be all end all but I do think his lackluster production needs to be considered heavily for a 2nd overall pick

I was just pointing out it was an argument against Rantanen too.

16 junior games isn’t a season, even 31 games, his recent regular Liiga season isn’t a ton to work with.

 

[BB88]

Again, totally different scenarios.

Barkov was considered the best Finnish prospect in years and was treated like that from the get go, placed on the same line as PPG Ville Nieminen on his draft season.

Rantanen had made his Liiga debut 3 years prior to being drafted, was given first line minutes, ”A” on his jersey and was on the TPS first powerplay unit on his draft season, due to TPS being weak team at the time. Also very pedestrian stats and play in the National team.

Kemell was Jyp’s main option on offence since the start of the season due to Jyp being broke and third weakest team in the league last season.

Laine played in the top lines and powerplay all season.

Kakko didn’t have as strong TPS team as this years was, so he got to play more top line minutes and powerplay as well.



Slaf had PPG of 0,32, if he was given nearly the amount of powerplay and top unit time as Rantanen or Kemell got he could’ve easily had 0,6ppg as well. Slaf also is much further ahead in his all around game than Kakko, Rantanen or Laine were so his usage hasn’t been nearly the same as their were.

In Liiga everything is again earned, nothing is given for free.

Tappara with Laine won the championship with Laine being the MVP, he also had to earn his spot throughout the year.
He wasn’t just handed #1 role.

Fact is Slaf had the worst offensive season of the bunch and he’s the favourite to go 2nd overall.

It doesn’t mean he won’t end up as a star but
a) using low scoring Liiga as an excuse for production is extremely weak
b) this argument for other Finns having just giftrf their roles is weak and wrong
c) his season should be put under heavy scouting as he’s expected to go 2nd overall.

He’s not a walk in superstar.
TPS went to finals, if he was a superstar in Liiga he would have taken Laine like role from the roster

 

[Colezuki]

Usage is not a good answer.

Jääkiekon SM-liiga – Liiga.fi

Reaaliaikainen otteluseuranta, tilastot, tulokset, otteluohjelma, uutiset - löydät parhaat jääkiekkosisällöt Liiga.fi -sivustolta!

old.liiga.fi

Here's his game by game TOI. Rookies almost never ever ever start with high ice-time, they have to earn it. Juraj did get a lot of time and didn't make use of it. I've watched a few of his games and did not find him noticeable.

I think that it's fair to be alarmed when a top 3 touted prospect who's physically mature cannot produce in Liiga.

That being said, he did have a good end to his season. But the sample size is small.

This is the problem I have with people saying Juraj is greater than Wright based on his finish to the season but then omit Wright's 2nd half of the season where he's in line with previous top picks

I think the reality is that Wright goes 1 to MTL and Slaf goes to 2 to NJ. Both teams get what they want and the rest of the draft moves along. I can't wait to see Slaf and Hughes together down the road.

 

[Hisch13r]

I was just pointing out it was an argument against Rantanen too.

16 junior games isn’t a season, even 31 games, his recent regular Liiga season isn’t a ton to work with.

Rantanen did have a better Liiga season to base it on though. He was an older birthday so you got to see his 18 year old and he performed well. Maybe Slaf has that type of season and maybe he doesn't. As is though he doesn't and his production is lacking in comparison to all other high profile Liiga players and at 2nd overall that's not something I'd want to risk.