F Joakim Kemell - Milwaukee Admirals, AHL (2022, 17th, NSH)

[Zub]

We are just debating, because you seem to be just clearly wrong with your perception about him. And his stats do already pretty much prove that you are wrong with your comments, but the eye test proves it even more. You seem to think yourself that it’s very important to constantly bring his hype down. Why is that then? You have already several times pointed out that you are not very excited about him, as he is just an efficient scorer and not much else in your opinion. Do you really expect that people will not comment on the kind of belittling comments that you are making about a prospect that is having a never before seen pace with scoring as only a 17 year old in Liiga? And this especially when he is really driving the play for his line and quarterbacking the 1st PP line at his age. Are you really serious dude?

I just don't agree, is it so hard to accept that not everyone shares the same opinion about everything? I agree his stats are phenomenal so far but for me the eye test isn't convincing enough for me to concider him a top 5, i still regard him as a top 10 easily and that already is something to be excited about.

 

[thomast]

I have to completely disagree with your comment about Kakko. I do though understand that many people seem to perceive holding on to the puck and skating a lot around with it as some kind of dominating. In reality it isn’t anything like that unless it leads into steady production and creating a lot of chances to both the player himself and his linemates.

Kakko created pretty well for himself in Liiga, but he didn’t create that well for his linemates. In fact that buzzing around with the puck leads exactly for the opposing team to defend a lot easier, if the player can’t use that buzzing around to create chances to his teammates with the right timing, good vision and quick and accurate passes. Kakko wasn’t really that impressive at all with this, so his dominance was much more like kind of a bluff.

It was also pretty obvious to me that Kakko will not produce well in the NHL with this kind of a playing style and skillset. I mean very good puck protecting skills, a muffin shot, limited vision and passing skills and only pretty ok hockey IQ will at best lead into the player to becoming a so called possession God in the NHL, but that is far from being a dominant player, if there isn’t also great production.

We were talking about dominance in liiga, not how they projected for the NHL. Stop talking yourself out of the context. Kakko had 23 goals in his last 31 games in liiga including playoffs. 31 games is sample size around half of the games in regular season.

That is pace of 45 goals over full season rounded up. It would be tied 2nd best in all time scoring season in history of Liiga. Yes, including those high scoring era’s. Eye test might be opinion based i agree, but i actually have numbers/data to back it up how dominant Kakko was on his latter part of his draft year.

 

[ZEBROA]

Eh hat eu all!

 

[Zub]

Eh hat eu all!

?

 

[ZEBROA]

?

It is" i hate u all" in Gibberish.
Directed to all the talented Finnish wunderkids and this particular thread about Kemellako...

 

[Kiekura]

We were talking about dominance in liiga, not how they projected for the NHL. Stop talking yourself out of the context. Kakko had 23 goals in his last 31 games in liiga including playoffs. 31 games is sample size around half of the games in regular season.

That is pace of 45 goals over full season rounded up. It would be tied 2nd best in all time scoring season in history of Liiga. Yes, including those high scoring era’s. Eye test might be opinion based i agree, but i actually have numbers/data to back it up how dominant Kakko was on his latter part of his draft year.

He was so dominant that on playoffs opposing team was constantly only focusing to him and said that he was biggest threat. When they silenced Kakko TPS had nothing.

 

[newsportsfan123]

I just don't agree, is it so hard to accept that not everyone shares the same opinion about everything? I agree his stats are phenomenal so far but for me the eye test isn't convincing enough for me to concider him a top 5, i still regard him as a top 10 easily and that already is something to be excited about.

you do realize that people who cant drive play are successful in the NHL right? plus an eye test doesnt matter when he's 17 scoring 12 goals in a top 5 league in the world. there have been worst players drafted

 

[kelsier]

He's better at it than his 2 linemates that's true, still not much of a playmaker though, he has pretty meh creativeness and chokes under pressure too much, like jesus christ if i'm not saying he's perfect at everything i get 2-3 guys foaming out their mouth going all mad, he's a very good top 10 prospect but somehow it's absolutely forbidden to think he doesn't look good enough to be a top 5 and that's just how i honestly think.

I disagree about almost everything, but first and foremost about individual freedom to post whatever impressions you please, that is not the issue here. I mean if people had always 100% consensus about their viewpoints the HFboards would pretty quickly become a boring platform to share discussion.

Nonetheless I don't share these views at all. I haven't seen Kemell choking under pressure and apart from the very first games I've seen them all. About your earlier point about driving the play, you seem to have some kind of illusion that this equals with creativity and playmaking. It doesn't. It really is more about how strong one is with and on the puck and how much scoring chances that creates, not only to the player himself but to his team mates as well. I've stated before that Kemell is very good at creating scoring chances, but he just prefers to shoot than to pass. When someone can shoot the way he can and actually be effective I would even say he's doing all the right things out there. Kemell's passing is underrated, just watch him distribute the puck on the PP. The passes are usually in the right address and he can find the lanes when he wants to.

Anyway based on the comments I kind of get impression that you might not have evaluated prospects playing at this level before. It really isn't the same as in the jr games where the best players show dazzling skill shift after shift and basically do whatever they please. Just look at how awesomingly Lambert and Slafkovsky are dominating the ice for instance at the same level (both were considered higher ranked prospects for this draft).

By any means Kemell isn't the perfect player like no one is at this age and has a ton of room to improve. I just hope he gains a little bit of more height for starters.

 

[Zub]

I disagree about almost everything, but first and foremost about individual freedom to post whatever impressions you please, that is not the issue here. I mean if people had always 100% consensus about their viewpoints the HFboards would pretty quickly become a boring platform to share discussion.

Nonetheless I don't share these views at all. I haven't seen Kemell choking under pressure and apart from the very first games I've seen them all. About your earlier point about driving the play, you seem to have some kind of illusion that this equals with creativity and playmaking. It doesn't. It really is more about how strong one is with and on the puck and how much scoring chances that creates, not only to the player himself but to his team mates as well. I've stated before that Kemell is very good at creating scoring chances, but he just prefers to shoot than to pass. When someone can shoot the way he can and actually be effective I would even say he's doing all the right things out there. Kemell's passing is underrated, just watch him distribute the puck on the PP. The passes are usually in the right address and he can find the lanes when he wants to.

Anyway based on the comments I kind of get impression that you might not have evaluated prospects playing at this level before. It really isn't the same as in the jr games where the best players show dazzling skill shift after shift and basically do whatever they please. Just look at how awesomingly Lambert and Slafkovsky are dominating the ice for instance at the same level (both were considered higher ranked prospects for this draft).

By any means Kemell isn't the perfect player like no one is at this age and has a ton of room to improve. I just hope he gains a little bit of more height for starters.

Fair enough, i agree he does pass very well on the PP, but when it comes to folding under pressure you need to watch him in the corners more, he doesn't know what to do with the puck at times and gets stripped before he does something good with it, also sometime he tries to be too fancy and stickhandles the puck right into the defenders stick.

 

[Ippenator]

Fair enough, i agree he does pass very well on the PP, but when it comes to folding under pressure you need to watch him in the corners more, he doesn't know what to do with the puck at times and gets stripped before he does something good with it, also sometime he tries to be too fancy and stickhandles the puck right into the defenders stick.

This has happened rarely. Much more he is doing well in the corners. But sure, no player is perfect in those kind of situations, let alone 17 year old’s playing in Liiga. But what I have seen about his play, he has been generally impressive with the puck. Clearly the best in his team.

 

[ijuka]

Fair enough, i agree he does pass very well on the PP, but when it comes to folding under pressure you need to watch him in the corners more, he doesn't know what to do with the puck at times and gets stripped before he does something good with it, also sometime he tries to be too fancy and stickhandles the puck right into the defenders stick.

One of his strengths is his play in the corners. I mean, that's been one of his standouts. How well he can battle along the boards and stave off pressure.

 

[Antiillafire]

Who would he be playing with at WJC. Very much looking forward to seeing him there, maybe with Lambert and Raty?

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Fair enough, i agree he does pass very well on the PP, but when it comes to folding under pressure you need to watch him in the corners more, he doesn't know what to do with the puck at times and gets stripped before he does something good with it, also sometime he tries to be too fancy and stickhandles the puck right into the defenders stick.

I mean, he's still learning and growing. No one has to be a complete player at 17. The main thing is that he learns and develops.

 

[Ippenator]

Who would he be playing with at WJC. Very much looking forward to seeing him there, maybe with Lambert and Raty?

I at least hope that it would be Räty out of those two. Lambert loves way too much to hang on to the puck. He is not at all a good fit with a great shooter and puck handler like Kemell.

Lambert was for one game playing as Kemell’s center this season in Liiga, and it didn’t look good at all. Kemell got no playmaking at all from Lambert. The only bright moment with that line was the magnificent pass that Kemell gave to set up Lambert for a half breakaway, which lead to a penalty shot where Lambert scored his only goal of the season.

Please give Kemell a center that knows how to move the puck without skating with it constantly and understands that the puck is always much, much faster than any skater.

Although Räty hasn’t looked really any better than Lambert in Liiga so far this season, he at least understands better what good playmaking is about and will not try to constantly hang on too long to the puck. He is also physically stronger and more aggressive than Lambert is, so he should work a lot better with Kemell than Lambert. Honestly I’m not sure if Lambert will even be played as a center even for the U20 national team.

Unfortunately right now the situation with the Finnish centers doesn’t look as good for the U20 as it looked before this Liiga season started.

 

[Ippenator]

We were talking about dominance in liiga, not how they projected for the NHL. Stop talking yourself out of the context. Kakko had 23 goals in his last 31 games in liiga including playoffs. 31 games is sample size around half of the games in regular season.

That is pace of 45 goals over full season rounded up. It would be tied 2nd best in all time scoring season in history of Liiga. Yes, including those high scoring era’s. Eye test might be opinion based i agree, but i actually have numbers/data to back it up how dominant Kakko was on his latter part of his draft year.

My point was that hanging a lot to the puck is not real dominance, especially when it doesn’t lead much into creating a lot of chances to other players than yourself. Those type of players are the first to get almost completely shutdown when comes playoffs time. Which was exactly what happened to Kakko in Liiga playoffs. My point was also still that Kakko’s dominance was pretty much a bluff on how good he really was after all. A muffin shot, not good vision or passing skills, and practically all goals scored by buzzing by himself around the ice with the puck and using his puck protecting skills for getting close to the goal, where was practically the only place where he could score with his weak and inaccurate shot. It worked pretty well in Liiga, until the playoffs started, but it wasn’t really true dominance, except for the impressive goal and point totals for a 17 year old.

Also wonderful cherry picking by you about Kakko’s goal scoring. Sure it’s fun to calculate a full season goal scoring total based on his last hot streak of the Liiga season, and to make believe that he is only like the player riding the hot streak. The truth is though that he scored 22 goals in 45 games, which isn’t even close to the pace of 45 goals in a season. A bummer though that he had to have games that were out of the hot streak, but unfortunately it happens to everyone.

Anyway, with a bit of cherry picking, Kemell is right now on the pace to score exactly 45 goals in a full season. I don’t think though that anyone seriously believes that he will keep on scoring goals with that kind of a pace for the whole season after all, and anyway he will not be able to play even close to all the Liiga games for the season, as he will be away for the U20 WJC and probably at least some games with the men’s national team.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Has a PP goal in tonights game.

 

[Ippenator]

Unfortunately he got injured in the 2nd period and hasn’t played since that.

 

[APVJ]

Reminds me of young Stamkos

 

[Goldenhands]

Concusion it looked like, his head took the impact here.

Kid is awesome, possibly the most NHL ready player in the draft. Great speed\agility, compete level and overall skills level. He is a favorite of mine.

Watched Wright the other night and came pretty unimpressed with his game. Wasnt moving his feet, his speed looks average at the junior level and hadnt much of an impact in this game. Looked more of a Nolan Patrick than a clear cut future top line center. Planning to watch more, but so far, not impressed at all.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Shame if he got concussed. I guess we'll see at the start of next period whether he can continue or not. Oh well, a promising young Finn and injury go hand in hand.

E: Yep, he's gone.

 

[kelsier]

Kemell is playing like compact Ovechkin out there and not sure if that's always a good thing. He flattened a much bigger guy on the open ice but took some impact himself (that lead to a goal). Here's to hoping he can return to the third period and it's not serious.

 

[Ippenator]

Kemell is playing like compact Ovechkin out there and not sure if that's always a good thing. He flattened a much bigger guy on the open ice but took some impact himself (that lead to a goal). Here's to hoping he can return to the third period and it's not serious.

They said that it seems like somekind of a shoulder problem. And he didn’t return to the 3rd period unfortunately.

 

[karhukissa]

I have only seen his highlights, so basically he's like Eeli Tolvanen on steroids?

 

[ijuka]

I have only seen his highlights, so basically he's like Eeli Tolvanen on steroids?

Much more of a physical presence.

 

[Goldenhands]

I have only seen his highlights, so basically he's like Eeli Tolvanen on steroids?

Kemell is an elite sniper already. I dont recall Tolvainen to be a such offensive treath on the PP.

I love Kemell hard nosed type of game as well, he plays with an edge and thats will make him sucessful at the NHL level. I wish Lambert had the same compete...