F James Hagens - Boston College, NCAA (2025 Draft)

Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
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Wasnt playing pro
Pretty sure that’s not it. The EU work restrictions for non-EU citizens that people mention doesn’t apply that way with soccer. It applies equally to pro and youth soccer.

Unless the IIHF has their own rules that specify this (and it’s not like all leagues follow their rules anyway), the non-pro element doesn’t matter.
 

WarriorofTime

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Pretty sure that’s not it. The EU work restrictions for non-EU citizens that people mention doesn’t apply that way with soccer. It applies equally to pro and youth soccer.

Unless the IIHF has their own rules that specify this (and it’s not like all leagues follow their rules anyway), the non-pro element doesn’t matter.
Who knows all the ins and outs of it, but Bedard was also loaned so he didn't sign a specific agreement with the Swedish club (I guess outside of whatever consent to be loaned deal).

Either way, we know Matthews didn't play Swiss Pro games until his 18th birthday. How many other American or Canadian kids played in a Euro Pro League prior to their Draft year?
 

bigdog16

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Pretty sure that’s not it. The EU work restrictions for non-EU citizens that people mention doesn’t apply that way with soccer. It applies equally to pro and youth soccer.

Unless the IIHF has their own rules that specify this (and it’s not like all leagues follow their rules anyway), the non-pro element doesn’t matter.
Im not sure how it works for soccer but Bedard would not need a work visa for his time in Sweden. Because he wasn’t working or collecting a check
 

Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Dec 8, 2013
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Who knows all the ins and outs of it, but Bedard was also loaned so he didn't sign a specific agreement with the Swedish club (I guess outside of whatever consent to be loaned deal).

Either way, we know Matthews didn't play Swiss Pro games until his 18th birthday. How many other American or Canadian kids played in a Euro Pro League prior to their Draft year?
Im not sure how it works for soccer but Bedard would not need a work visa for his time in Sweden. Because he wasn’t working or collecting a check
I think the point is that we aren’t even sure this applies to Hagens and if it did, there have been workarounds in the past that make it so he could probably play without issue.
 

Boonk

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Wonder if he can sign an AHL contract and play in that league for his draft year. Hell be 18 in November and since he’s playing in the USHL as an amateur he can technically sign a professional contract by the time hes 18, and the AHL doesn’t start until way later October/early November. Certainly beats the Europe option and having to miss half a season, even if AHL contracts are less lucrative. My guess is he goes NCAA route tho, pro hockey is a big step up from regular college/junior hockey.
 

WarriorofTime

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I think the point is that we aren’t even sure this applies to Hagens and if it did, there have been workarounds in the past that make it so he could probably play without issue.
I think it's extremely likely (given the Matthews precedent) that Hagens cannot play Euro Pro games until he turns 18. His birthday is November 3rd, and these regular seasons kick off Mid-September, so we're looking at about 1/3 of the regular season that he'd miss, plus getting loaned out for the World Juniors. With limited import spots, I don't see a big reason for it. Matthews had the Marc Crawford connection and just barely missed the prior draft cutoff date.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
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I think it's extremely likely (given the Matthews precedent) that Hagens cannot play Euro Pro games until he turns 18. His birthday is November 3rd, and these regular seasons kick off Mid-September, so we're looking at about 1/3 of the regular season that he'd miss, plus getting loaned out for the World Juniors. With limited import spots, I don't see a big reason for it. Matthews had the Marc Crawford connection and just barely missed the prior draft cutoff date.
I’ve not even seen anything about this Matthews precedent being accurate. I read that article and it doesn’t say he can’t play. It says that it’s taking time for him to receive his visa. Doesn’t say he’s not able to receive one. There’s an important difference there. And did he actually miss any games?

And as I mentioned, we’ve seen players from outside the EU play in EU countries prior to 18. The pay issue isn’t it, if it’s an EU law holding it up. This same one is talked about in soccer, and there’s no difference between playing pro vs. youth. It could be a distinction of a loan vs. a permanent transfer. If so, why couldn’t Hagens find some USHL team that’ll agree to loan him for the season to a team in one of the European pro leagues? Also, let’s say the pay is actually a part of it, why not just refuse the salary for two months ? Is there some rule you can’t play any pro games?

This whole thing seems way too convoluted and not even clear what is holding him up. I understand why it’s being discussed, but some of the things being discussed it’s not clear apply to Hagens.
 

WarriorofTime

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I’ve not even seen anything about this Matthews precedent being accurate. I read that article and it doesn’t say he can’t play. It says that it’s taking time for him to receive his visa. Doesn’t say he’s not able to receive one. There’s an important difference there. And did he actually miss any games?
Yes, he didn't play the first four games of the season. Again, without any counter-vailing examples of American/Canadians playing Euro Pro Games in their Draft year, it doesn't seem like a very replicable path and Matthews extremely unique circumstances surrounding his birth date being more of a one-off.

Why would he sign on with a USHL team that will just loan him out to a Euro Junior team? That doesn't make sense for either party. Bedard's Junior team lent him out because COVID was going on and their season was not running at the time.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
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Yes, he didn't play the first four games of the season. Again, without any counter-vailing examples of American/Canadians playing Euro Pro Games in their Draft year, it doesn't seem like a very replicable path and Matthews extremely unique circumstances surrounding his birth date being more of a one-off.

Why would he sign on with a USHL team that will just loan him out to a Euro Junior team? That doesn't make sense for either party. Bedard's Junior team lent him out because COVID was going on and their season was not running at the time.
Did he not play the first four games because the visa process took some extra time or because the laws didn't allow him to at that time? The article does not say it was because he wasn't legally allowed to say. If you have another article that establishes the latter, that'd be important to establishing what is true and what isn't. Until it can be established that it was the latter, I'm not buying this idea that Hagens cannot play.

Matthews not being able to play four games is very vague and non-descriptive. It's not been established why. It was like 8 years ago at this point, and if we want to talk about counter-vailing examples, we got a guy in Bedard that played in Europe. There's no meaningful distinction between pro and youth in soccer, so why would it be any different for hockey if what's keeping him from playing is an EU law?

If you or anyone wants to provide proof, I'm certainly not saying I know for sure. Not trying to come off combative or disrespectful to you. I merely question this idea that because of Matthews and one article that establishes he had some difficulty at the start of his season (for unclear reasons) that Hagens can't play for two months.

As for a loan, I don't see why it doesn't make sense. Players do loans in their draft-seasons all the time as a work-around to league-restrictions. Hischier and Zadina both did so to be able to play AHL after being drafted. There's plenty in it for Hagens, if it allows him to play in a men's league right away. As for the team, they get his rights. In the unlikely situation it doesn't work out in Europe, he can come back stateside and dominate for them in the USHL. Also, who knows when something like COVID might happen again? If there's nothing to lose, you want to have the rights of the best talents because you never know what'll happen. That's why teams like London and Chicago draft the best talents late in their drafts because the future is impossible to predict and there's nothing to lose from doing so.
 

bigdog16

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I’ve not even seen anything about this Matthews precedent being accurate. I read that article and it doesn’t say he can’t play. It says that it’s taking time for him to receive his visa. Doesn’t say he’s not able to receive one. There’s an important difference there. And did he actually miss any games?

And as I mentioned, we’ve seen players from outside the EU play in EU countries prior to 18. The pay issue isn’t it, if it’s an EU law holding it up. This same one is talked about in soccer, and there’s no difference between playing pro vs. youth. It could be a distinction of a loan vs. a permanent transfer. If so, why couldn’t Hagens find some USHL team that’ll agree to loan him for the season to a team in one of the European pro leagues? Also, let’s say the pay is actually a part of it, why not just refuse the salary for two months ? Is there some rule you can’t play any pro games?

This whole thing seems way too convoluted and not even clear what is holding him up. I understand why it’s being discussed, but some of the things being discussed it’s not clear apply to Hagens.
The athletic article written about the situation claimed it was the league that didnt allow him to play until he was 18
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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The athletic article written about the situation claimed it was the league that didnt allow him to play until he was 18
I guess that's a possibility, but do they distinguish between EU citizens and non-EU citizens? That'd be blatant discrimination, and I'm not sure that would ever hold up, if challenged. Or is it simply a NLA rule that all players younger than 18 can't play in their league? If that's all it was, Hagens can go to SHL or Liiga. Players younger than 18 from other countries have played in those leagues.

I don't think any of us know for sure what can and cannot happen or that what applied to Matthews applies to Hagens, so it's fun to speculate, but until there's some proof that Hagens can't play a year in Europe, I'm going to assume there's a way, whether it involves some workarounds or not.
 

WarriorofTime

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Did he not play the first four games because the visa process took some extra time or because the laws didn't allow him to at that time? The article does not say it was because he wasn't legally allowed to say. If you have another article that establishes the latter, that'd be important to establishing what is true and what isn't. Until it can be established that it was the latter, I'm not buying this idea that Hagens cannot play.
It wasn't a coincidence... He signed in August.
Matthews not being able to play four games is very vague and non-descriptive. It's not been established why. It was like 8 years ago at this point, and if we want to talk about counter-vailing examples, we got a guy in Bedard that played in Europe. There's no meaningful distinction between pro and youth in soccer, so why would it be any different for hockey if what's keeping him from playing is an EU law?
It was because he wasn't 18 yet. When he turned 18, he played. It's pretty straight forward.

Bedard was loaned and only played Juniors. He didn't sign a pro player form with the Swedish pro team. That's the complication with signing in youth academies for soccer players. He signed his CHL Player Deal and due to COVID shutting down the WHL, got lent out to a junior team in Sweden.
If you or anyone wants to provide proof, I'm certainly not saying I know for sure. Not trying to come off combative or disrespectful to you. I merely question this idea that because of Matthews and one article that establishes he had some difficulty at the start of his season (for unclear reasons) that Hagens can't play for two months.
I've admitted that none of us likely know all the ins and outs, but the fact that this is a path that *never* happens, outside of Matthews who played 0 pro games before his 18th birthday is certainly highest suggestive of a Visa issue when it comes to playing pro games as a minor by U.S./Canadian law.
As for a loan, I don't see why it doesn't make sense. Players do loans in their draft-seasons all the time as a work-around to league-restrictions. Hischier and Zadina both did so to be able to play AHL after being drafted.
*After* being drafted, so they were already NHL property at that point. A USHL team gets zero benefit to using a limited number of Tenders to sign Hagens just to... ship him out.
There's plenty in it for Hagens, if it allows him to play in a men's league right away.
Not right away, after sitting out for a 1/3 of the season and coming into a team in mid-season form and trying to supplant veteran players in their existing roles.
As for the team, they get his rights. In the unlikely situation it doesn't work out in Europe, he can come back stateside and dominate for them in the USHL.
Huh? Why would he come back? And when? After the world juniors?
Also, who knows when something like COVID might happen again?
A once a century level global pandemic?
If there's nothing to lose, you want to have the rights of the best talents because you never know what'll happen. That's why teams like London and Chicago draft the best talents late in their drafts because the future is impossible to predict and there's nothing to lose from doing so.
the whole plan is for Hagens to bypass the USHL entirely, which he can obviously do by just playing in NCAA after this USNDTP service is done. There's basically zero chance he plays USHL proper (for a real USHL team, aka not USNDPT) as a top prospect, when he can just go NCAA or CHL. If he is playing Euro Pro, he'd presumably be doing it to stay Euro Pro until he can North American Pro (AHL/NHL).
 
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bigdog16

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I guess that's a possibility, but do they distinguish between EU citizens and non-EU citizens? That'd be blatant discrimination, and I'm not sure that would ever hold up, if challenged. Or is it simply a NLA rule that all players younger than 18 can't play in their league? If that's all it was, Hagens can go to SHL or Liiga. Players younger than 18 from other countries have played in those leagues.

I don't think any of us know for sure what can and cannot happen or that what applied to Matthews applies to Hagens, so it's fun to speculate, but until there's some proof that Hagens can't play a year in Europe, I'm going to assume there's a way, whether it involves some workarounds or not.
It will be fun to speculate. Especially that Hagens has come out and said he is in no rush to announce where he plans on playing in his draft year. There are obvious pros and cons to each route
 
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Oak

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Ivy League schools are still substantially easier for Jocks to get into than regular students, but yeah you still gotta be a good student and prepared to be treated like a regular student in an academic sense. It's not like say Michigan, which is a great school in its own right, that'll take any dumb lug that plays a sport well and puts them on the "athlete track" if they want it. So the academics are definitely more of a hurdle for a player that wants to commit to an Ivy.

Ivy's dont give out sports scholarships, only need based financial aid, so family also has to be able to afford it.
 
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bigdog16

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Wink wink for maybe 1 or 2 kids coming in per year. Rest are not getting your wink wink deal. Parents need to have money or be extremely low income.
The need based financial aid is pretty damn generous. I think its something like 70%+ Ivy league students are getting financial aid in some capacity. All athletes will be given financial aid in some capacity, that is almost a given. The school will find a way.
 

Postulates

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Hagens is the guy who will get nil money in order to pay for school if needed

From the recent The Hockey News draft profile article on him both of his parents are teachers in long island which isnt the highest paying of jobs


they would likely qualify for aid just off some basic assumptions
 

Bonin21

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I don't think he'll end up at Harvard so whatever school he picks will be a full ride plus solid NIL money.
 

William H Bonney

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Just a general info update. This account is highly reliable for all things BC hockey.


If he goes the NCAA route, and he doesn't shock the world as is my hope (it won't happen) by helping revitalize a once-dominant program like Maine or Michigan State, I think he's going to BC or BU. He'll be able to live right next to his brother, his parents will be close, and he'll be at a historic program.

Michigan is interesting given their storied program, NTDP proximity, and usual recruiting prowess. But their 2023 recruiting class was pedestrian and their 2024 class isn't looking any better. And by the time Hagens gets there, most of the top talent on the team (Nazar, Casey, McGroarty, Brindley, etc.) should be gone.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

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He has more time than most players due to the late birthday. I think like worst case he's viewed as a similar player to Hughes with more defensive attentiveness, but for him to take that next step, he needs to be taller than 5'10. There are inherent limitations for 5'10 players. Still has another year until it starts mattering more and his brother is 6'0.
 
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