F James Hagens - Boston College, NCAA (2025 Draft)

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This is going off the rails. Canada has some good universities. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

That’s also not really too relevant to what’s being discussed. If he goes to London, he’s discarding the education importance that most expect him to place on where he chooses to play his draft year.

That wouldn’t be because Canada has a bad education system. It would be because there’s simply no education benefit for a kid from Long Island that’ll be playing NHL a year later. If he wanted a degree later on, he’ll probably just pay his own way in the offseasons or something online during the NHL season to an American university with more convenience to him. Unless he’s playing for a Canadian NHL team, it’s simply inconvenient for him to go on a rigorous education program through the Canadian system based on one year in London.

 

[bigdog16]

The ignorance on display from some of you NCAA bros is astonishing. Truly. I’m not sure what you think goes on up in Canada, but I can assure you that there are a number of world-class post-secondary institutions.

McGill (top bi-lingual institution), Queen’s (Elon Musk went here ffs), U of Toronto (globally known), Waterloo (one of the top Engineering schools in the world), UBC (the best in the west), Western (right in the heart of London with a world-class business school).

A degree from any of these institutions is no less valuable than a degree from, say, the University of Michigan, and would be unquestionably more valuable than a degree from….the University of friggin North Dakota lol….as an example

So unless you’re talking about most Ivy League schools or a few schools in California, your perceived academic advantage is a hoax.

If you’re a hockey player choosing to go the NCAA route, you are, for the most part, choosing to do so for a variety of perfectly legitimate reasons (prefer the development process, want to play for your favourite school, family etc). Superior post-secondary academics is rarely one of them.

Top 200 Universities in North America | 2024 University Rankings

Discover the top 200 Universities in North America ranked by the uniRank 2024 North American University Ranking.

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[William H Bonney]

Another uninformative, redundant, and jingoistic NCAA vs CHL debate. How lovely. An HF special.

 

[LDN]

All I gotta say is when Hagens pulls that London Knights jersey over his head I hope you NCAA bros have a nice little cry….. sorry buddies LONDON>

 

[bigdog16]

All I gotta say is when Hagens pulls that London Knights jersey over his head I hope you NCAA bros have a nice little cry….. sorry buddies LONDON>

I don’t think anyone would be mad about him going to London. It just doesn’t seem like the likely destination right now.

Who knows, money does talk. London is a team that would drop a bag on him

 

[Bonin21]

NCAA bros don't care when someone goes to the CHL. They care when a rival gets a player they really wanted.

 

[GrizzGreen]

Lol that education program is terrible

It's not

McGill (top bi-lingual institution), Queen’s (Elon Musk went here ffs), U of Toronto (globally known), Waterloo (one of the top Engineering schools in the world), UBC (the best in the west), Western (right in the heart of London with a world-class business school).

A degree from any of these institutions is no less valuable than a degree from, say, the University of Michigan, and would be unquestionably more valuable than a degree from….the University of friggin North Dakota lol….as an example

You must not realize how well regarded UM is academically

 

[GrizzGreen]

Top 200 Universities in North America | 2024 University Rankings

Discover the top 200 Universities in North America ranked by the uniRank 2024 North American University Ranking.

www.4icu.org

Criticism where it's due: objectively bad list.

 

[bigdog16]

Criticism where it's due: objectively bad list.

Because it doesn’t align with your thinking. Got it.

 

[clevelandcane]

Why!?!

I'm no fan of CAN juniors and wish all went the NCAA route.

 

[Dux917]

Harvard - the odds on choice for him, as received a slew of commitments the past couple of weeks. They are '07's and late '06's, so still a few years away - may not affect Hagens that much, but maybe with so many future commitments locked up - Harvard may not feel they have to go all in on his recruitment...

 

[Bonin21]

Harvard - the odds on choice for him, as received a slew of commitments the past couple of weeks. They are '07's and late '06's, so still a few years away - may not affect Hagens that much, but maybe with so many future commitments locked up - Harvard may not feel they have to go all in on his recruitment...

Everyone goes all in on Hagens level recruitment.

 

[rve24]

I don’t think anyone would be mad about him going to London. It just doesn’t seem like the likely destination right now.

Who knows, money does talk. London is a team that would drop a bag on him

I'm guessing the US schools got bigger bank rolls

 

[WarriorofTime]

The ignorance on display from some of you NCAA bros is astonishing. Truly. I’m not sure what you think goes on up in Canada, but I can assure you that there are a number of world-class post-secondary institutions.

McGill (top bi-lingual institution), Queen’s (Elon Musk went here ffs), U of Toronto (globally known), Waterloo (one of the top Engineering schools in the world), UBC (the best in the west), Western (right in the heart of London with a world-class business school).

A degree from any of these institutions is no less valuable than a degree from, say, the University of Michigan, and would be unquestionably more valuable than a degree from….the University of friggin North Dakota lol….as an example

So unless you’re talking about most Ivy League schools or a few schools in California, your perceived academic advantage is a hoax.

If you’re a hockey player choosing to go the NCAA route, you are, for the most part, choosing to do so for a variety of perfectly legitimate reasons (prefer the development process, want to play for your favourite school, family etc). Superior post-secondary academics is rarely one of them.

That’s a nice soliloquy and all but I think you missed the point. The relevant consideration is that you are able to work towards a degree from a good institution while also remaining on the track with your hockey to play in the NHL. In Canada, it’s a one or the other choice with respect to anyone that goes Major Juniors. A player that goes NCAA doesn’t have to choose one or the other when they are 17.

 

[rve24]

That’s a nice soliloquy and all but I think you missed the point. The relevant consideration is that you are able to work towards a degree from a good institution while also remaining on the track with your hockey to play in the NHL. In Canada, it’s a one or the other choice with respect to anyone that goes Major Juniors. A player that goes NCAA doesn’t have to choose one or the other when they are 17.

Actually it is not one or the other. Players can actually be encouraged here in the North to take post secondary education while playing hockey and believe it or not some actually do. And do it successfully. We don't kick kids outta school to play hockey lol. Wether it's secondary or post secondary.

I'm not arguing the better path for any single player, that's slways an individual case, but knowing first hand from several Canadians that accepted scholarships South of the border.....the education they received is hit n miss in terms of value. Just like it is up here.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Actually it is not one or the other. Players can actually be encouraged here in the North to take post secondary education while playing hockey and believe it or not some actually do. And do it successfully. We don't kick kids outta school to play hockey lol. Wether it's secondary or post secondary.

I'm not arguing the better path for any single player, that's slways an individual case, but knowing first hand from several Canadians that accepted scholarships South of the border.....the education they received is hit n miss in terms of value. Just like it is up here.

If you take the Education route, you're giving up on NHL dream because USports is not a viable path to the NHL. If you go the Pro Hockey route after Major Juniors, your education package expires.

There is no "decision point" for NCAA players, they can remain in NCAA and simultaneously be working towards both a degree and an NHL career because NCAA Hockey is a much more viable path towards the NHL than USports. Even if they leave school before four years, they can usually earn enough credits to earn a degree some time later on.

 

[rve24]

If you take the Education route, you're giving up on NHL dream because USports is not a viable path to the NHL. If you go the Pro Hockey route after Major Juniors, your education package expires.

There is no "decision point" for NCAA players, they can remain in NCAA and simultaneously be working towards both a degree and an NHL career because NCAA Hockey is a much more viable path towards the NHL than USports. Even if they leave school before four years, they can usually earn enough credits to earn a degree some time later on.

You can play CHL hockey and attend University classes, so no ya don't give up the dream.
You don't have to wait til the dream is over to go to school. Ya just age out of Jr at 20 by which point most have been drafted and already are making the decision. I know Jr players taking university courses now. And there are ways to delay the education package to chase the dream straight outta Jr.

However I would change the CHL Edu packages to benefit players further. And they have moved, just not enough for me. Heck I'd have it trade schools. A 5 yr window to sign pro anywhere and pursue the path.

Lots of info available if ya look into it instead of assumptions.

And Steve Rucchin may also disagree with ya bout Usports but granted thats a big rarity.

The oddest thing for me in US schools not allowing CHL kids to take scholarships cause they made 60$ a week while 16-18/19 yrs of age. Kids really vould get the best of all worlds. Ushl, us dev, Chl and a school of their choice after but nope. Is it really cause the NCAA considered Jr players pros? It would improve the quality of the college game as well.

 

[GrizzGreen]

Because it doesn’t align with your thinking. Got it.

Yale not being #3 is just crazy

But sure, go off, noted internet scholar, bigdog16

 

[Postulates]

Yale not being #3 is just crazy

But sure, go off, noted internet scholar, bigdog16

im guessing this strange list has something to do with money spent money earned because it seems to heavily favorite strong stem publics

 

[bigdog16]

Yale not being #3 is just crazy

But sure, go off, noted internet scholar, bigdog16

Buddy I'm just providing the sources. You can believe what you want to in your own little world GrizzGreen. In reality the difference in most of the Ivy League schools is razor thin anyways.

 

[WarriorofTime]

US News and World Report is probably the more generally cited and regarded list, but I dunno how Canadian schools fit into that

 

[BKarchitect]

Harvard - the odds on choice for him, as received a slew of commitments the past couple of weeks. They are '07's and late '06's, so still a few years away - may not affect Hagens that much, but maybe with so many future commitments locked up - Harvard may not feel they have to go all in on his recruitment...

Harvard also tends to recruit a lot of future classes heavily early on (who wouldn’t want to, in theory, say you are going to Harvard) but they also tend to bleed recruits, especially top recruits, the closer you get to actually being able to announce classes.

Don’t get me wrong, they still produce a lot of talent but they will lose a chunk of the guys who are committed 2, 3 and 4 years out.

Hagens will be an interesting case if he does commit to Harvard. He will clearly be ready to play collegiate hockey by the fall of 2024 but he’s such a late birthday that he’d have to accelerate and arrive on campus at age 17. Which is not unheard of at BC or Michigan but I’m not sure that’s been done at Harvard before? There’s a good chance his older brother will be 19 or 20 before stepping foot on campus.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Are we seriously getting into a "my country's universities are better than yours" dick-measuring contest?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

If you were interested in corporate careers, going to a Harvard/Yale/Princeton for even a middle round pick or just a decent hockey player would pay dividends if they cannot “make” the NHL. I understand the allure and would advise my kid to choose the best academic school. Even a UM, Notre Dame, BC.. it makes a lot of sense to attend this type of institution. The network and recruiting opportunities are simply on a different level. Rightly or wrongly many coveted jobs/careers recruit kids from these schools- grads from non target schools have to scratch and claw to even get interviews for the same positions. Add in your network of teammates/fellow athletes and it’s a priceless opportunity for most.

However guys as talented as Hagens should prioritize hockey. Say he was interested in Wall Street. An investment banking VP at a large bank in a good year (5-7 years in) could MAYBE earn around NHL league minimum.

Worst case, Hagens playing his ELC then bouncing around the NHL for 5-7 years as a fringe guy is more lucrative and a much better lifestyle than even the highest paid corporate positions.

So I get the opportunity of a Harvard but I don’t think CHL v. NCAA should matter very much for top end talent.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Anyways, I think Hagens is a probably higher than 50/50 at this point to play in the NHL immediately following his Draft season, so he certainly doesn't "need" school. London is a historically good training ground for NHL Forwards and they may or may not be a bag dropper, so it's not a bad place for him to go if he wants to. The longer he goes without a college commitment, I think the more and more likely it is that's where he ends up. I'm not sure the timing of when other former USNDTP late birthday draft gap years (Kane, S. Jones, M. Tkachuk) that went the CHL route announced their intentions (or Matthews with the Swiss pro). There's a lot of social pressure from USA Hockey for players to go to College Hockey. It gets talked as though it's the expectation for USNDTP guys. Just look at how they list the roster

Current Rosters

www.usahockeyntdp.com

Column on the far right is literally "College Committed"