F James Hagens - Boston College, NCAA (2025 Draft) Part 2

[wickedwitch]

Some numbers from last season to compare to Hagens even strength point/game rate of 0.84:
Smith: 0.90
Gauthier: 0.85

Mind you, scoring is slightly down league wide by about 4%.

 

[montreal]

Hagens Give and Go 8:29
Hagens Hits Post 10:25

not a very good game from him

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

not a very good game from him

That's only because he's being controlled by the Canadian hype machine, and their agenda to get a Canadian picked first.

 

[Jacob]

PBP guy pronounced his last name 3 different ways.

 

[Ryan Van Horne]

That's only because he's being controlled by the Canadian hype machine, and their agenda to get a Canadian picked first.

He should have come to the CHL and played for the London Knights. We could have worked something out like we did for Patty Kane. ;-)

NOTE: For anyone who didn't take this as a joke, go back and read it again, but as a joke this time.

 

[Kingpin794]

He should have come to the CHL and played for the London Knights. We could have worked something out like we did for Patty Kane. ;-)

NOTE: For anyone who didn't take this as a joke, go back and read it again, but as a joke this time.

Along with other London Knights legends Zach Werenski and Brady Tkachuck

 

[Ryan Van Horne]

Along with other London Knights legends Zach Werenski and Brady Tkachuck

EXACTLY!

 

[Corso]

That's only because he's being controlled by the Canadian hype machine, and their agenda to get a Canadian picked first.

The enemy has now even co-opted Mike Morreale...we have lost!!!!!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The enemy has now even co-opted Mike Morreale...we have lost!!!!!

What’s your intent posting this here other than to abrasively start an argument? Who even is Mike Morreale and why do we have to respect his credentials?

Many have no ability to think for themselves, so they just parrot what they’re told to say. Hagens if he was in the CHL would light things up. He chose to put himself in a tougher environment because he was beyond junior hockey.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Hagens is just... So... Vanilla. You can find vanilla everywhere.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Vanilla has outplayed Misa, Martone, Schaefer, and Frondell head to head pretty conclusively.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Vanilla has outplayed Misa, Martone, Schaefer, and Frondell head to head pretty conclusively.

He’s saying it’s tough to judge how good Dickinson is because he plays for the dominant franchise in the CHL,

so I guess the same applies to Hagens then.

 

[newmanager]

Head to head at 2024 u18 Gold Medal game.
Cooks and Cleaners over usa 6-4

Gavin McKenna 3+1=4
Matthew Schaefer 0+1=1
Porter Martone 0+1=1
James Hagens 0+0=0

 

[AlternateSideParking]

I was watching the Barrie-Saginaw game the other night (the Barrie feed) and in the pregame the Rogers TV host was given a graphic that showed the top five "consolidated rankings" for the 2025 draft, and it showed Misa, Martone, Frondell, Hagens, and Schaefer. And he said something along the lines of "As you can see, Misa and Martone are far outproducing those playing in other leagues".

Granted, the poor kid probably didn't realize he was clowning himself in front of a TV audience (on Kyle Clifford night lmfao), but have we really devolved to the point where our present-day analysts can't grasp the very simple concept of quality of competition? I mean, even this thread has some examples of it.

Hagens not matching Smith's production with the same linemates is worth discussing. I'd even go as far as to say that Hagens isn't above being lumped in with the fact that Eagle scoring dropping significantly from last season, even if it's already been mentioned that Gauthier's 38 goals simply vanished. Still, he's the top freshman in the nation despite being one of the youngest to play. I don't think falling well short of Celebrini's or Fantilli's production should prevent him from going 1st OA. Misa, Martone, Frondell, and Schaefer have all dealt with an issue or two this season, and all more concerning than anything Hagens did.

Anyway, I don't know if it's been mentioned already, but BC is absolutely shorthanded tonight. They have a bunch of people out of the lineup -- Gasseau, Stiga, and maybe Perreault I think. Think Jellvik is still hurt as well. Hagens played a season-high 23:31 last night and picked up an assist, but BC came out flat then played it safe after taking the lead. Tonight is the last road game and then they host Merrimack on March 8 before the HE tournament.

Thing is, Maine hasn't been eliminated from winning the conference. At least I don't think they've been eliminated. Bears have three games left and BC has two and a five-point lead. Bears play sucky UVM tonight and two tough games in Amherst next weekend. Eagles in Manchester tonight and home to close it out against the Warriors.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Head to head at 2024 u18 Gold Medal game.
Cooks and Cleaners over usa 6-4

Gavin McKenna 3+1=4
Matthew Schaefer 0+1=1
Porter Martone 0+1=1
James Hagens 0+0=0

You are so obsessed with this cooks and cleaners line that you are now posting it in random NCAA threads (not even this one, but Aiden Fink).

I don't think anyone ever called any real NHL prospect a cook or cleaner, so it's a complete straw man argument you're using.

Hagens had the literal tournament record in points. I'm not sure you have a particularly compelling argument here.

 

[SI90]

As much as I’d kill to have James come home to Long Island, I think he’s going to have to start loving country music.

 

[newmanager]

You are so obsessed with this cooks and cleaners line that you are now posting it in random NCAA threads (not even this one, but Aiden Fink).

I don't think anyone ever called any real NHL prospect a cook or cleaner, so it's a complete straw man argument you're using.

Hagens had the literal tournament record in points. I'm not sure you have a particularly compelling argument here.

You don't like your description of the boys north of the border? I like it. I used to use "lunch pail brigade" but I think I'll stick with your suggestion.

Those that follow International hockey are well aware that Canada only sends their best to the Hlinka. Never at any other time of year are their best available so for the most part it's a lot of cooks and cleaners that are sent to the International events. CHL playoffs have the best players still playing and then Canada's graduation policy keeps the best out such as Celebrini. If Schaefer was available he'd be held back by the graduation policy this year too.
Take the 2024 U18's for example. Although Canada walked away with the gold, CHL playoffs were still on and they were missing their most promising chefs.

These are the cooks/cleaners that captured the gold medals at the tourney.

AITCHESON Kashawn - 2025 draft

SCHAEFER Matthew - 2025 draft

BRUNICKE Harrison - 2024 2nd round 44th overall

MEWS Henry - 2024 3rd round 74th overall

MARRELLI Frankie - 2024 not drafted

McKENNA Gavin - 2026 draft

VANACKER Marek - 2024 1st round 27th overall

SPENCE Malcolm - 2025 draft

MASSE Maxim - 2024 3rd round 66th overall

LUCHANKO Jett - 2024 1st round 13th overall

JOSEPHSON Ollie - 2024 4th round 105th overall

GILL Spencer 2024 2nd round 59th overall

RITCHIE Ryder - 2024 2nd round 45th overall

MARTONE Porter - 2025 draft

WETSCH Carson 2024 3rd round 82nd overall

IGINLA Tij - 2024 1st round 6th overall

DESNOYERS Caleb - 2025 draft

GREENTREE Liam 2024 1st round 26th overall

ELICK Charlie - 2024 2nd round 36th overall

BEAUDOIN Cole - 2024 1st round 24th overall

The following list is of the kids (somewhat better than cooks and cleaners) that would have been there to claim gold but were still in playoffs or graduated.

CELEBRINI Macklin - 2024 1st round 1st overall

SENNECKE Beckett - 2024 1st round 3rd overall

LINDSTROM Cayden - 2024 1st round 4th overall

CATTON Berkley - 2024 1st round 8th overall

PAREKH Zayne - 2024 1st round 9th overall

DICKINSON Sam - 2024 1st round 11th overall

PARASCAK Terik - 2024 1st round 17th overall

DANFORD Ben - 2024 1st round 31st overall

O'REILLY Sam - 2024 1st round 32nd overall

MCQUEEN Roger 2025 draft

MISA Michael - 2025 draft

So yes, there are better players than cooks and cleaners up there, but most of the time they're busy with other stuff so we're exposed to the cooks and cleaners at most international events.

KEY WORDS in my non-compelling argument: "HEAD TO HEAD" at the 2024 U18's
Hagen's points against Denmark and Slovakia and other round robin opponents carry no significance whatsoever in the head-to-head matchup with Schaefer and Martone.
Head-to-head Schaefer and Martone won 6-4 over Hagens. Hagens was held pointless head-to-head against Schaefer and Martone. Schaefer and Martone each had points head-to-head against Hagens.
Misa, by the way, was leading his team to the Memorial Cup so he wasn't there to play head-to-head against Hagens.

 

[Juxtaposer]

No one is questioning if Hagens is a good player. No one is questioning that he has a high floor and a safe projection. No one is suggesting that Hagens was not the best player at last year's U18, or the previous year's U17, or that he wasn't the best draft-eligible at this year's WJC (given Schaefer's incomplete body of work).

We are questioning his ultimate upside. Scouting is about projection, not about who is the best player at age 18. The fact that he has not shown glimpses of star-level NHL attributes at the NCAA is concerning. The fact that he has shown little progression from last year to this year is concerning.

He's going to be a very good NHL player. He has not shown anything to suggest he is worthy of a 1st overall selection. I don't get what's so difficult to understand.

 

[impaaaaaact]

As much as I’d kill to have James come home to Long Island, I think he’s going to have to start loving country music.

I mean I think there’s a non-0 chance he falls as low as 6 right now. Not saying that’s where he ends up, but I’m personally not going to be shocked if Martone McQueen or Frondell go before him.

If isles end up with the tenth pick, how much do you think it costs to move up to 4th?

 

[wickedwitch]

No one is questioning if Hagens is a good player. No one is questioning that he has a high floor and a safe projection. No one is suggesting that Hagens was not the best player at last year's U18, or the previous year's U17, or that he wasn't the best draft-eligible at this year's WJC (given Schaefer's incomplete body of work).

We are questioning his ultimate upside. Scouting is about projection, not about who is the best player at age 18. The fact that he has not shown glimpses of star-level NHL attributes at the NCAA is concerning. The fact that he has shown little progression from last year to this year is concerning.

He's going to be a very good NHL player. He has not shown anything to suggest he is worthy of a 1st overall selection. I don't get what's so difficult to understand.

So I'd argue there's 100% been glimpses. (I'll have to go through clips later to show what I'm thinking of.) And that's enough to give me hope on his ceiling.

But I do wish they were more frequent. And I think it's fair to question why it's only glimpses.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

No one is questioning if Hagens is a good player. No one is questioning that he has a high floor and a safe projection. No one is suggesting that Hagens was not the best player at last year's U18, or the previous year's U17, or that he wasn't the best draft-eligible at this year's WJC (given Schaefer's incomplete body of work).

We are questioning his ultimate upside. Scouting is about projection, not about who is the best player at age 18. The fact that he has not shown glimpses of star-level NHL attributes at the NCAA is concerning. The fact that he has shown little progression from last year to this year is concerning.

He's going to be a very good NHL player. He has not shown anything to suggest he is worthy of a 1st overall selection. I don't get what's so difficult to understand.

This simply isn’t true. The WJC by itself is enough of a starting point. Every one of Schaefer, Misa, Hagens, Frondell, and Martone have done so with at least one signature achievement, and there’s still plenty of hockey left. You honestly don’t think Hagens averages 1.85-2.00 points a game in the OHL against some of the worst collective goaltending in all of junior hockey?

 

[Juxtaposer]

So I'd argue there's 100% been glimpses. (I'll have to go through clips later to show what I'm thinking of.) And that's enough to give me hope on his ceiling.

But I do wish they were more frequent. And I think it's fair to question why it's only glimpses.

He absolutely has moments of elite NCAA play, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a glimpse of elite NHL play. The passing/vision is an excellent attribute. But more often than not, he's just a guy at the NCAA level. A good one, but nothing extraordinary. Obviously being a very good NCAA player at 18 is impressive, but I have never ever seen him take over an NCAA game this year, and I have watched about 50% of his full NCAA games. Celebrini and Fantilli and Eichel took over NCAA games regularly in their draft years. I could flip on a game and there was a solid 50% chance that those guys were dominating.

I want Hagens to show up and dominate an NCAA game. He has only one NCAA game all season with 3 points, and that was in October against "American International College", whatever that is. Celebrini and Smith both had nine 3+ point NCAA games last year. Ryan Leonard has six this year. I have yet to see a BC game this season and think, "man, Hagens is the best player out there tonight". I'm not expecting him to outplay Perreault and Leonard regularly, but once or twice in two dozen games would be great.

This simply isn’t true. The WJC by itself is enough of a starting point. Every one of Schaefer, Misa, Hagens, Frondell, and Martone have done so with at least one signature achievement, and there’s still plenty of hockey left. You honestly don’t think Hagens averages 1.85-2.00 points a game in the OHL against some of the worst collective goaltending in all of junior hockey?

You can't use the WJC as a some huge win for Hagens when Schaefer got hurt (after four periods of elite play), Martone was a healthy scratch and on the 4th line of a dysfunctional team, and Misa wasn't invited. Yes, it's a feather in his cap, but over-valuing the WJC relative to league play has long resulted in poor scouting.

Production isn't only factor here. Absolutely, I think Hagens would produce at a similar rate as Misa and Martone if he were in the OHL. That doesn't change his projection, which is what I'm concerned with.

Just finished watching his game tonight. Had a nice rush in 3v3, but made suboptimal passes too often for my liking. Overall, he was just fine. Again.

 

[SI90]

I mean I think there’s a non-0 chance he falls as low as 6 right now. Not saying that’s where he ends up, but I’m personally not going to be shocked if Martone McQueen or Frondell go before him.

If isles end up with the tenth pick, how much do you think it costs to move up to 4th?

I think there’s a strong possibility that Schaefer and Misa go 1-2. Nothing would shock me.

I don't know what the cost would be but if a team was willing to deal 4th for 10th + I think its certainly possible

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

He absolutely has moments of elite NCAA play, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a glimpse of elite NHL play. The passing/vision is an excellent attribute. But more often than not, he's just a guy at the NCAA level. A good one, but nothing extraordinary. Obviously being a very good NCAA player at 18 is impressive, but I have never ever seen him take over an NCAA game this year, and I have watched about 50% of his full NCAA games. Celebrini and Fantilli and Eichel took over NCAA games regularly in their draft years. I could flip on a game and there was a solid 50% chance that those guys were dominating.

I want Hagens to show up and dominate an NCAA game. He has only one NCAA game all season with 3 points, and that was in October against "American International College", whatever that is. Celebrini and Smith both had nine 3+ point NCAA games last year. Ryan Leonard has six this year. I have yet to see a BC game this season and think, "man, Hagens is the best player out there tonight". I'm not expecting him to outplay Perreault and Leonard regularly, but once or twice in two dozen games would be great.


You can't use the WJC as a some huge win for Hagens when Schaefer got hurt (after four periods of elite play), Martone was a healthy scratch and on the 4th line of a dysfunctional team, and Misa wasn't invited. Yes, it's a feather in his cap, but over-valuing the WJC relative to league play has long resulted in poor scouting.

Production isn't only factor here. Absolutely, I think Hagens would produce at a similar rate as Misa and Martone if he were in the OHL. That doesn't change his projection, which is what I'm concerned with.

Just finished watching his game tonight. Had a nice rush in 3v3, but made suboptimal passes too often for my liking. Overall, he was just fine. Again.

That was generous for Hagens. Invisible for most of the game tonight. My personal bias leans towards him over Misa but with games like tonight, I can't say he should definitely be ahead unfortunately.