F James Hagens - Boston College, NCAA (2025 Draft) Part 2

[Juxtaposer]

That was generous for Hagens. Invisible for most of the game tonight. My personal bias leans towards him over Misa but with games like tonight, I can't say he should definitely be ahead unfortunately.

I'm trying not to get a rep as a hater. Too late for that in some people's eyes, but it is what it is.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

He absolutely has moments of elite NCAA play, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a glimpse of elite NHL play. The passing/vision is an excellent attribute. But more often than not, he's just a guy at the NCAA level. A good one, but nothing extraordinary. Obviously being a very good NCAA player at 18 is impressive, but I have never ever seen him take over an NCAA game this year, and I have watched about 50% of his full NCAA games. Celebrini and Fantilli and Eichel took over NCAA games regularly in their draft years. I could flip on a game and there was a solid 50% chance that those guys were dominating.

I want Hagens to show up and dominate an NCAA game. He has only one NCAA game all season with 3 points, and that was in October against "American International College", whatever that is. Celebrini and Smith both had nine 3+ point NCAA games last year. Ryan Leonard has six this year. I have yet to see a BC game this season and think, "man, Hagens is the best player out there tonight". I'm not expecting him to outplay Perreault and Leonard regularly, but once or twice in two dozen games would be great.


You can't use the WJC as a win for Hagens when Schaefer got hurt (after four periods of elite play), Martone was a healthy scratch and on the 4th line of a dysfunctional team, and Misa wasn't invited. Yes, it's a feather in his cap, but over-valuing the WJC relative to league play has long resulted in poor scouting.

Production isn't only factor here. Absolutely, I think Hagens would produce at a similar rate as Misa and Martone if he were in the OHL. That doesn't change his projection, which is what I'm concerned with.

Just finished watching his game tonight. Had a nice rush in 3v3, but made suboptimal passes too often for my liking. Overall, he was just fine. Again.

I have Schaefer ranked No. 1, but that’s more of a reward for his season than what I think he’ll become — which could be a No. 1 Norris type, but is that worth more than an 80-90 point center? Debatable.

Also, the last draft where a defenseman turned out to become the best player selected was in 2017. Everything since is either a dead heat or massively in favor of the forward. The last defenseman to go first overall who became the clear-cut best player picked was Dennis Potvin in 1973. Many recent high-pick defenders aren’t hitting as expected and it’s disproportionate to what the forwards are achieving.

Try to remember that Brady Tkachuk is easily the best forward and arguably the best player to come out of the 2018 draft, yet his lack of NCAA production as a BU freshman was used by many posters on this very forum to marginalize him.

The WJC is more than relevant to many scouts. Schaefer got a ton of credit for his WJC play from every outlet and he was out after two games. The GMs are usually there and can influence the pick, depending on his relationship with the scouting director. Scouts almost always reference a WJC performance late in the season and it can tip the scales.

To me, the first forward off the board of any draft is worthy of being 1OA. Hagens is very much in the running to be the first forward picked.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

I have Schaefer ranked No. 1, but that’s more of a reward for his season than what I think he’ll become — which could be a No. 1 Norris type, but is that worth more than an 80-90 point center? Debatable.

Also, the last draft where a defenseman turned out to become the best player selected was in 2017. Everything since is either a dead heat or massively in favor of the forward. The last defenseman to go first overall who became the clear-cut best player picked was Dennis Potvin in 1973. Many recent high-pick defenders aren’t hitting as expected and it’s disproportionate to what the forwards are achieving.

Try to remember that Brady Tkachuk is easily the best forward and arguably the best player to come out of the 2018 draft, yet his lack of NCAA production as a BU freshman was used by many posters on this very forum to marginalize him.

The WJC is more than relevant to many scouts. Schaefer got a ton of credit for his WJC play from every outlet and he was out after two games. The GMs are usually there and can influence the pick, depending on his relationship with the scouting director. Scouts almost always reference a WJC performance late in the season and it can tip the scales.

To me, the first forward off the board of any draft is worthy of being 1OA. Hagens is very much in the running to be the first forward picked.

To argue in favour of anyone not named "Quinn Hughes" would be incorrect by several miles

 

[Star Platinum]

This simply isn’t true. The WJC by itself is enough of a starting point. Every one of Schaefer, Misa, Hagens, Frondell, and Martone have done so with at least one signature achievement, and there’s still plenty of hockey left. You honestly don’t think Hagens averages 1.85-2.00 points a game in the OHL against some of the worst collective goaltending in all of junior hockey?

There's no doubt that points are way, way, way easier to come by in the CHL than in the NCAA. That's not really the question. The question is why, even relative to the rest of NCAA, he isn't doing better on the #1 team in college hockey. Everything is his favor.

 

[Marshmont63]

Let me preface the following by saying I’m a BC alum and a massive BC hockey fan.

Hagens should not be the first overall pick. I wasn’t delusional in thinking he’d be as good this season as Celebrini was last season, but I thought he’d at least be kinda close to him, especially given that he’d likely spend a good chunk of time with Leonard and/or Perreault. His defensive game has been atrocious and he has been weak on the puck and in puck battles. That being said, I’m saying all of this relative to what I think a prototypical top pick would or, more accurately, should look like. Hagens has a lot of talent, and I think he’ll be a great NHL player one day. Does he have the talent to be the #1 pick? Definitely. Has this draft season in college proven that? No.

From what I’ve heard, the coaching staff expects him to return next season, which I think would absolutely be the right decision. I’d be happy for him no matter what he decides to do, but I think he needs to get a lot stronger before he’ll have sustained NHL success.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

There's no doubt that points are way, way, way easier to come by in the CHL than in the NCAA. That's not really the question. The question is why, even relative to the rest of NCAA, he isn't doing better on the #1 team in college hockey. Everything is his favor.

Everything has definitely not been in his favor. The Eagles have rolled and shuffled four lines all season and played one of the toughest schedules in the nation. I think “Doing better” is something we can ask of nearly all NCAA players this year outside of goaltending. Scoring is down and games seem tighter. There also appears to be less dynamism and excitement on an individual level. The Eagles are scoring a full goal less in 2025 than last, when HE had eight players hit 30+ points in conference play, this year there will be no more than three.

Again, if there was another forward who is having a better draft season than Hagens, then I’d see it. But there simply isn’t. The forwards in the upper tier are pretty much even one way or another and all have concerns. That wasn’t the case in 2023 or 2024, which probably explains why people are disappointed.

Within the context of THIS particular draft class, Hagens remains arguably the best forward available.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Let me preface the following by saying I’m a BC alum and a massive BC hockey fan.

Hagens should not be the first overall pick. I wasn’t delusional in thinking he’d be as good this season as Celebrini was last season, but I thought he’d at least be kinda close to him, especially given that he’d likely spend a good chunk of time with Leonard and/or Perreault. His defensive game has been atrocious and he has been weak on the puck and in puck battles. That being said, I’m saying all of this relative to what I think a prototypical top pick would or, more accurately, should look like. Hagens has a lot of talent, and I think he’ll be a great NHL player one day. Does he have the talent to be the #1 pick? Definitely. Has this draft season in college proven that? No.

From what I’ve heard, the coaching staff expects him to return next season, which I think would absolutely be the right decision. I’d be happy for him no matter what he decides to do, but I think he needs to get a lot stronger before he’ll have sustained NHL success.

The defense thing should be irrelevant for a scoring center. Bedard, Hughes, Cooley, etc are unreliable defensively. Teams know they can fix that on the support side. They also know getting physically stronger will happen naturally.

Again, name me one forward in this draft class who has looked like a “prototypical” top pick?

 

[AlternateSideParking]

To argue in favour of anyone not named "Quinn Hughes" would be incorrect by several miles

Maybe in fantasy hockey. Hughes is an elite but tissue-soft offensive defenseman. Tkachuk is one of the game’s top power forwards. It boils down to preference and it would be a 1-for-1 swap.

 

[eklund2chicago]

Maybe in fantasy hockey. Hughes is an elite but tissue-soft offensive defenseman. Tkachuk is one of the game’s top power forwards. It boils down to preference and it would be a 1-for-1 swap.

Are you serious? Hughes is a top 5 ish player in the league and B Tkachuck is maybe a top 30 player? Dahlin (from the same draft) is also way better than Tkachuck.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Maybe in fantasy hockey. Hughes is an elite but tissue-soft offensive defenseman. Tkachuk is one of the game’s top power forwards. It boils down to preference and it would be a 1-for-1 swap.

Hughes is an elite all-around defenseman lmao, but if your scouting report ends at his height and weight I could see where you're coming from.

 

[wickedwitch]

\

He absolutely has moments of elite NCAA play, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a glimpse of elite NHL play. The passing/vision is an excellent attribute. But more often than not, he's just a guy at the NCAA level. A good one, but nothing extraordinary. Obviously being a very good NCAA player at 18 is impressive, but I have never ever seen him take over an NCAA game this year, and I have watched about 50% of his full NCAA games. Celebrini and Fantilli and Eichel took over NCAA games regularly in their draft years. I could flip on a game and there was a solid 50% chance that those guys were dominating.

I want Hagens to show up and dominate an NCAA game. He has only one NCAA game all season with 3 points, and that was in October against "American International College", whatever that is. Celebrini and Smith both had nine 3+ point NCAA games last year. Ryan Leonard has six this year. I have yet to see a BC game this season and think, "man, Hagens is the best player out there tonight". I'm not expecting him to outplay Perreault and Leonard regularly, but once or twice in two dozen games would be great.


You can't use the WJC as a some huge win for Hagens when Schaefer got hurt (after four periods of elite play), Martone was a healthy scratch and on the 4th line of a dysfunctional team, and Misa wasn't invited. Yes, it's a feather in his cap, but over-valuing the WJC relative to league play has long resulted in poor scouting.

Production isn't only factor here. Absolutely, I think Hagens would produce at a similar rate as Misa and Martone if he were in the OHL. That doesn't change his projection, which is what I'm concerned with.

Just finished watching his game tonight. Had a nice rush in 3v3, but made suboptimal passes too often for my liking. Overall, he was just fine. Again.

I feel like we see a lot of the same things when we watch Hagens, just that I have a slightly more optimistic view and you a slightly more pessimistic. But I don't know who between us is actually being more realistic.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I have Schaefer ranked No. 1, but that’s more of a reward for his season than what I think he’ll become — which could be a No. 1 Norris type, but is that worth more than an 80-90 point center? Debatable.

Also, the last draft where a defenseman turned out to become the best player selected was in 2017. Everything since is either a dead heat or massively in favor of the forward. The last defenseman to go first overall who became the clear-cut best player picked was Dennis Potvin in 1973. Many recent high-pick defenders aren’t hitting as expected and it’s disproportionate to what the forwards are achieving.

Try to remember that Brady Tkachuk is easily the best forward and arguably the best player to come out of the 2018 draft, yet his lack of NCAA production as a BU freshman was used by many posters on this very forum to marginalize him.

The WJC is more than relevant to many scouts. Schaefer got a ton of credit for his WJC play from every outlet and he was out after two games. The GMs are usually there and can influence the pick, depending on his relationship with the scouting director. Scouts almost always reference a WJC performance late in the season and it can tip the scales.

To me, the first forward off the board of any draft is worthy of being 1OA. Hagens is very much in the running to be the first forward picked.

Brady Tkachuk is a 6'4" goal-scoring power winger with non-star production. James Hagens is a 5'11" finesse player. You need better production to project as a star player when your physical toolkit doesn't have tools like Tkachuk's size and shot. Not comparable.

The best player in both of the last two drafts where defensemen went first overall were defensemen. Quinn Hughes and Rasmus Dahlin are the best players from 2018, ahead of Tkachuk. Luke Hughes and Simon Edvinsson look like the best players from 2021.

The defense thing should be irrelevant for a scoring center. Bedard, Hughes, Cooley, etc are unreliable defensively. Teams know they can fix that on the support side. They also know getting physically stronger will happen naturally.

People got mad on HF when I suggest that Hagens wasn't as good defensively as Celebrini at the beginning of the year, and now "defense doesn't matter"? Choose a side.

Again, name me one forward in this draft class who has looked like a “prototypical” top pick?

I'm begging you to watch Michael Misa play a game of hockey.

 

[CLW]

Since this is the James Hagens thread, which NHL player is a good positive comparison for his projected game at the NHL level? I personally see Turcotte 2.0 and that's not very appealing for a top 1-3 (top 5?) pick. Here's a good player in a good environment playing good hockey, but where's that next gear?

 

[Dominance]

It seems a contextual reminder is in order again re the WJC. There’s really not much there to hang his hat on.

• Hagens had 4G, 4A against Germany, Latvia, and Switzerland
• Hagens had 1G, 0A against Finland, Canada-B, Czechia, and Finland

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Since this is the James Hagens thread, which NHL player is a good positive comparison for his projected game at the NHL level? I personally see Turcotte 2.0 and that's not very appealing for a top 1-3 (top 5?) pick. Here's a good player in a good environment playing good hockey, but where's that next gear?

He's more creative than Turcotte IMO, though Turcotte was a great prospect until the Kings f***ed his development and he developed injury issues.

 

[CLW]

He's more creative than Turcotte IMO, though Turcotte was a great prospect until the Kings f***ed his development and he developed injury issues.

I agree Hagens is more creative. The Blake Dino-Kings were not a good fit for Turcotte, that was clear from the beginning. However, I do not wish to turn this into a Turcotte (or LA) discussion, so I asked for a more positive example/match/comparison.

 

[MS]

Maybe in fantasy hockey. Hughes is an elite but tissue-soft offensive defenseman. Tkachuk is one of the game’s top power forwards. It boils down to preference and it would be a 1-for-1 swap.

This reads like someone who hasn't watched Quinn Hughes play since 2021.

 

[NikF]

He has similarities to Turcotte in that they both over-support puck-carriers and don't look for holes in coverage off puck as much. Nobody is going to tell you this because he sees the ice as a playmaker with the puck on his stick at a high level, but he has a tendency to puck-watch when not in possession. He is more skilled than Turcotte but like him, he has to work for offense. Misa is A level off-puck, OZ routes and timing. Hagens is more B to C. I still see Hagens' upside as a mobile support-playmaker, top 6 player, 60 pts (maybe 70) but not a stand out 1st line player. If you put a gun to my head, I think it's more likely he reaches the 40-50 pts floor than PPG+ ceiling.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I agree Hagens is more creative. The Blake Dino-Kings were not a good fit for Turcotte, that was clear from the beginning. However, I do not wish to turn this into a Turcotte (or LA) discussion, so I asked for a more positive example/match/comparison.

Well, steering it back to Hagens, where does he play next year?

I'm not sure he is physically ready to play in the NHL and could use a year to get physically stronger and to outgrow the NCAA. I don't think he has outgrown the NCAA yet.

 

[Wieters]

Just want to make a note re. Hagens’ defense. I would characterize his defensive play as willing even if not effective. Meaning that unlike many playmaking centers, he is not floaty/aloof, and he doesn’t make it a habit to turn down puck battles. The issue is more so that when he does get in the mix, he’s not particularly good at actually separating the other guy from the puck or getting his stick in the right place.

Whether that’s a good or bad thing as far as projecting his future defense is in the eye of the beholder. He’s not the sort of prospect who makes you cringe defensively, but you wonder how much better he can really improve given that the issue isn’t his effort and he doesn’t have the physical tools to lean on. Regardless I just think it’s worth pointing out that his issues defensively aren’t the same ones that affect many playmaking centers who really just don’t apply themselves on defense.

 

[frontsfan67]

Try to remember that Brady Tkachuk is easily the best forward and arguably the best player to come out of the 2018 draft, yet his lack of NCAA production as a BU freshman was used by many posters on this very forum to marginalize him.

Tkachuk also was 6’3 and 192lbs at the draft. Long way from Hagens who is 5’11 and 176. (But different player types obviously with Hagens being a playmaker and Tkachuk a Power forward)

Tkachuk was probably a safer pick because of his NHL size. Hagens is a smaller centre (sub 6’) and hasn’t exactly wowed from his college year so far(was great at WJC but that is 1 tournament). Could learn from Jack Hughes who had a rough first year as a smaller centre. Personally I think he should stay another year in the NCAA just like Ryan Leonard did for this year.

Same with Schaefer in the OHL who has had problems this year staying healthy and is one of the youngest in this draft, he could add 15-20 lbs for sure. Not sure if I’d want to play him against men just yet. No harm in that though Owen Power was 6’6 and still needed another year of NCAA before moving on up to Buffalo.

Could see Martone in the NHL next year for sure (but could benefit from an extra year probably just to work on things such as putting on some weight, working on defence and improving skating which all players can do) don’t think he would be super effective. Ranging prob from 25-50pts

Misa is up in the air. Probably has the skill but again can work on some stuff no doubt about that. If he gets drafted by Chicago- Bedard needs a guy to play alongside and they could rush him in but don’t think they’d do that for a guy like Hagens.

Of the top 4 I could see Martone and Misa as the guys most likely to play in NHL. Martone about 50/50 and Misa 30/70. Berkly Catton is a good comp for Misa I think and he needed another year.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You don't like your description of the boys north of the border? I like it. I used to use "lunch pail brigade" but I think I'll stick with your suggestion.

Those that follow International hockey are well aware that Canada only sends their best to the Hlinka. Never at any other time of year are their best available so for the most part it's a lot of cooks and cleaners that are sent to the International events. CHL playoffs have the best players still playing and then Canada's graduation policy keeps the best out such as Celebrini. If Schaefer was available he'd be held back by the graduation policy this year too.
Take the 2024 U18's for example. Although Canada walked away with the gold, CHL playoffs were still on and they were missing their most promising chefs.

These are the cooks/cleaners that captured the gold medals at the tourney.

AITCHESON Kashawn - 2025 draft

SCHAEFER Matthew - 2025 draft

BRUNICKE Harrison - 2024 2nd round 44th overall

MEWS Henry - 2024 3rd round 74th overall

MARRELLI Frankie - 2024 not drafted

McKENNA Gavin - 2026 draft

VANACKER Marek - 2024 1st round 27th overall

SPENCE Malcolm - 2025 draft

MASSE Maxim - 2024 3rd round 66th overall

LUCHANKO Jett - 2024 1st round 13th overall

JOSEPHSON Ollie - 2024 4th round 105th overall

GILL Spencer 2024 2nd round 59th overall

RITCHIE Ryder - 2024 2nd round 45th overall

MARTONE Porter - 2025 draft

WETSCH Carson 2024 3rd round 82nd overall

IGINLA Tij - 2024 1st round 6th overall

DESNOYERS Caleb - 2025 draft

GREENTREE Liam 2024 1st round 26th overall

ELICK Charlie - 2024 2nd round 36th overall

BEAUDOIN Cole - 2024 1st round 24th overall

The following list is of the kids (somewhat better than cooks and cleaners) that would have been there to claim gold but were still in playoffs or graduated.

CELEBRINI Macklin - 2024 1st round 1st overall

SENNECKE Beckett - 2024 1st round 3rd overall

LINDSTROM Cayden - 2024 1st round 4th overall

CATTON Berkley - 2024 1st round 8th overall

PAREKH Zayne - 2024 1st round 9th overall

DICKINSON Sam - 2024 1st round 11th overall

PARASCAK Terik - 2024 1st round 17th overall

DANFORD Ben - 2024 1st round 31st overall

O'REILLY Sam - 2024 1st round 32nd overall

MCQUEEN Roger 2025 draft

MISA Michael - 2025 draft

So yes, there are better players than cooks and cleaners up there, but most of the time they're busy with other stuff so we're exposed to the cooks and cleaners at most international events.

KEY WORDS in my non-compelling argument: "HEAD TO HEAD" at the 2024 U18's
Hagen's points against Denmark and Slovakia and other round robin opponents carry no significance whatsoever in the head-to-head matchup with Schaefer and Martone.
Head-to-head Schaefer and Martone won 6-4 over Hagens. Hagens was held pointless head-to-head against Schaefer and Martone. Schaefer and Martone each had points head-to-head against Hagens.
Misa, by the way, was leading his team to the Memorial Cup so he wasn't there to play head-to-head against Hagens.

You are just arguing with straw man’s and bad faith. You think you sound funny, but you’re making something up out of thin air no one said.

No one is questioning if Hagens is a good player. No one is questioning that he has a high floor and a safe projection. No one is suggesting that Hagens was not the best player at last year's U18, or the previous year's U17, or that he wasn't the best draft-eligible at this year's WJC (given Schaefer's incomplete body of work).

We are questioning his ultimate upside. Scouting is about projection, not about who is the best player at age 18. The fact that he has not shown glimpses of star-level NHL attributes at the NCAA is concerning. The fact that he has shown little progression from last year to this year is concerning.

He's going to be a very good NHL player. He has not shown anything to suggest he is worthy of a 1st overall selection. I don't get what's so difficult to understand.

He’s literally 100 percentile at play-driving as like the third youngest player in the league.

I’d say that suggests a 1st overall.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You can't use the WJC as a some huge win for Hagens when Schaefer got hurt (after four periods of elite play), Martone was a healthy scratch and on the 4th line of a dysfunctional team, and Misa wasn't invited. Yes, it's a feather in his cap, but over-valuing the WJC relative to league play has long resulted in poor scouting.

Production isn't only factor here. Absolutely, I think Hagens would produce at a similar rate as Misa and Martone if he were in the OHL. That doesn't change his projection, which is what I'm concerned with.

Just finished watching his game tonight. Had a nice rush in 3v3, but made suboptimal passes too often for my liking. Overall, he was just fine. Again.

This is what’s called being against someone.

Their accomplishments don’t matter because excuses for other players do.

Misa did not earn a WJC spot. Martone did not play well. Schaefer got hurt.

All those things are marks against them. I don’t know how it can’t when evaluating hockey players.

The WJC is a significant point in Hagens category. Anyone who won’t admit that is biased against him. I think it’s that simple.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The defense thing should be irrelevant for a scoring center. Bedard, Hughes, Cooley, etc are unreliable defensively. Teams know they can fix that on the support side. They also know getting physically stronger will happen naturally.

Again, name me one forward in this draft class who has looked like a “prototypical” top pick?

He’s “so terrible defensively” for the team that won the WJC and is #1 in college hockey.

Must be such an unreliable player that you can’t win with.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It seems a contextual reminder is in order again re the WJC. There’s really not much there to hang his hat on.

• Hagens had 4G, 4A against Germany, Latvia, and Switzerland
• Hagens had 1G, 0A against Finland, Canada-B, Czechia, and Finland

He can’t win with some of you.

Your team lost to Latvia and you put them in a lower category than Latvia.

The “but he scored in the wrong games” line in hilarious. Oh no, news at 10, players score more against worse teams. Almost like that happens in the NHL too.

He scored in the GMG and was two points off the forward lead. 1C on the Champions as a draft eligible and you have the nerve to try to make that a negative.

Misa and Martone weren’t even close to that.