F Ivan Demidov (2024, 5th, MTL) Part 2

[RedHawkDown]

Lol Michkov is a cupcake. He’d be useless against a team like WSH in the playoffs. Too slow right now to get keep up with the pace as well. He’d get crushed in his first shift or two

This is jsut as embarrassing as the guy dogging on Demidov for no reason

 

[Kegs]

This is jsut as embarrassing as the guy dogging on Demidov for no reason

Fact.


Demidov plays 3 playoff games and hfboards has ppl declaring him a bust.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Fact.


Demidov plays 3 playoff games and hfboards has ppl declaring him a bust.

To be fair I think some people are just calling out the hype. Demidov was being hailed as the greatest Russian prospect since Ovechkin by some Habs fans here, people are still saying the Calder is a lock for him, etc. He will surely be a star but it’s fair to call out that he’s been pedestrian for all but his first NHL game too. Other than that one dude who’s clearly got a hate boner for the Habs, I don’t see anyone calling Demidov a bust.

 

[Kegs]

To be fair I think some people are just calling out the hype. Demidov was being hailed as the greatest Russian prospect since Ovechkin by some Habs fans here, people are still saying the Calder is a lock for him, etc. He will surely be a star but it’s fair to call out that he’s been pedestrian for all but his first NHL game too. Other than that one dude who’s clearly got a hate boner for the Habs, I don’t see anyone calling Demidov a bust.

Next year will be huge for him. We will see. I like his game. Both him and the Philly kid are going to by some high end Russian talent in my opinion.

 

[Kshahdoo]

That’s not true. He could easily have at least 2 points yesterday and I never thought his stickhandling and dekes would translate as easy, especially because his is not the fastest skater. I have yet to see Michkov exposing a NHL D like Carlson as Demidov did yesterday.

Actually Michkov plays hockey different than Demidov, and you can't score 26 goals without exposing defense. Btw two of his goals he scored to Washington.

 

[bud12]

Demidov>Michkov

Now, we can go back on thread

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It can be two things at once.

Demidov is doing okay, given he’s a 2024 eligible. He shouldn’t be expected to be one of the Habs best players right away.

Also, some people have way overdone his impact right away. Yeah, it’s Montreal and all that, but you also have to be realistic about what he can bring right now. If you don’t, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Demidov is simply not ready to be an impact player in the playoffs. Maybe a year from now.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

To be fair I think some people are just calling out the hype. Demidov was being hailed as the greatest Russian prospect since Ovechkin by some Habs fans here, people are still saying the Calder is a lock for him, etc. He will surely be a star but it’s fair to call out that he’s been pedestrian for all but his first NHL game too. Other than that one dude who’s clearly got a hate boner for the Habs, I don’t see anyone calling Demidov a bust.

Demidov delivered to the hype in the reg season. How many players in their d+1, with almost no nhl experience, come to the playoffs and look great from the get-go? The list has to be extremely small.

 

[ViD]

If Demidov dominated the NHL right off the bat in the play offs against the best Eastern conference team playing on the same line as Laine, you could proclaim he had a better rookie year than Crosby / Ovechkin

 

[Frank Drebin]

It can be two things at once.

Demidov is doing okay, given he’s a 2024 eligible. He shouldn’t be expected to be one of the Habs best players right away.

Also, some people have way overdone his impact right away. Yeah, it’s Montreal and all that, but you also have to be realistic about what he can bring right now. If you don’t, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Demidov is simply not ready to be an impact player in the playoffs. Maybe a year from now.

Demidov and nikishin have to be pretty darn unique situations
It’s a different game across the pond, different culture, different language.

I don’t remember any other khl players coming to join playoffs at the end of the season like this as rookies?

Its pretty darn rare regardless, i can think of cale makar for na players

 

[tomd]

This is not a criticism but now that I've watched him the last few games I understand the mild concerns expressed about his skating. He is very shifty but not anywhere near an elite skater from what I can tell.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Demidov delivered to the hype in the reg season. How many players in their d+1, with almost no nhl experience, come to the playoffs and look great from the get-go? The list has to be extremely small.

He played 2 games in the regular season. He was great in the first game and so-so in the second one. He has then had 2 decent to bad playoff games and 1 pretty good playoff game. The hype was out of control and that's all some people are calling out (other than the one guy I agree is trippin).

To answer your question, the kinds of guys that end up becoming Ovechkin-level talents, i.e. all-time great players, generally do look phenomenal from the get go. It's hard to make a list of guys that did it in the playoffs because generally playoff teams aren't adding rookies to their team.

However, I'll give it a shot.

Makar was phenomenal in his first playoffs as one example. McAvoy had 3 assists in 6 games and was very good in his first playoffs. Guentzel, though a few years older, had 21 pts in 25 games in his first playoffs. Quinn Hughes in his D+2 had 16 pts in 17 games in the playoffs and was similarly fantastic. Nathan MacKinnon in his D+1 (same as Demidov) had 10 pts in 7 playoff games, showing the game-breaking potential it took a few more years for him to fully realize. Karlsson had 6 points in his first 6 playoff games, albeit after a long and productive season. Hertl 5 pts in his first 7 playoff games.

Obviously these aren't directly comparable because a lot of these guys had more of a full season to get up to speed, but the idea that young players can't excel in the POs isn't true, especially when you're comparing said player to people like Ovechkin, Kucherov, Malkin et cetera.

I only included active players too, the list is way longer if you look at all players. The point is that true all-time greats usually do look like all-time greats from the very start, even if they're starting mostly in the playoffs. I'm not even saying that Demidov can't be that, but it's totally fair to call attention to the fact that he's not doing anything close to what an Ovechkin-level talent would be doing. That doesn't mean he can't become Malkin 2.0, I'm sure he will be pretty close to that. But it's totally fair to call out.

 

[RedHawkDown]

If Demidov dominated the NHL right off the bat in the play offs against the best Eastern conference team playing on the same line as Laine, you could proclaim he had a better rookie year than Crosby / Ovechkin

Linemates are irrelevant for the level of talent you are comparing Demidov to. Ovechkin had 106 points playing with Dainius Zubrus and Brian Willsie. The 2nd-leading scorer was Zubrus with 57 points.

If Demidov is this unreal talent that is the best Russian prospect since Ovechkin, yes, he absolutely should be able to dominate with any linemates. That's what makes a player generational.

Now, is Demidov likely to be a Kaprizov-level talent? Yeah, probably. But he ain't Ovechkin or Crosby, or a Makar. At least, he hasn't shown that yet.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

These playoffs are valuable for Demi. He can access where he needs to be at to succeed when the hockey is played at its highest level instead of meaningless games. He also gets immersed into the Habs system.

He will be ready to start the season next year. Ready to win the Calder!

 

[River Meadow]

This is not a criticism but now that I've watched him the last few games I understand the mild concerns expressed about his skating. He is very shifty but not anywhere near an elite skater from what I can tell.

Yep,

It's looking more and more like Ivan Bustidov than Ivan Demidov.

 

[tomd]

Yep,

It's looking more and more like Ivan Bustidov than Ivan Demidov.

No, I think he'll be a really good player but the skating may hold him back from being what some people think he'll be.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

No, I think he'll be a really good player but the skating may hold him back from being what some people think he'll be.

That’s what they said about Lane Hutsin!

Demi’s skating is fine and will improve over time.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Linemates are irrelevant for the level of talent you are comparing Demidov to. Ovechkin had 106 points playing with Dainius Zubrus and Brian Willsie. The 2nd-leading scorer was Zubrus with 57 points.

If Demidov is this unreal talent that is the best Russian prospect since Ovechkin, yes, he absolutely should be able to dominate with any linemates. That's what makes a player generational.

Now, is Demidov likely to be a Kaprizov-level talent? Yeah, probably. But he ain't Ovechkin or Crosby, or a Makar. At least, he hasn't shown that yet.

The expectations out of the gate for demi were absurd. You have guys like ovi sid and connor scoring 100 points as teenagers, that is not the norm. Celebrini and michkov are likely to be superstars and both barely cracked 60 points(70 if celebrini played the full season)

Give him a full training camp and preseason. Then we can have early opinions on how he looks. Next post season if the habs make it we can see how he compares to other rookies.

 

[RedHawkDown]

The expectations out of the gate for demi were absurd. You have guys like ovi sid and connor scoring 100 points as teenagers, that is not the norm. Celebrini and michkov are likely to be superstars and both barely cracked 60 points(70 if celebrini played the full season)

Give him a full training camp and preseason. Then we can have early opinions on how he looks. Next post season if the habs make it we can see how he compares to other rookies.

Yes, I agree with you. I think there were just crazy expectations by some Habs fans, and all people are doing is calling Demidov out relative to those expectations. Were those expectations realistic? No, not really.

I agree he is a similar caliber of player to Michkov. Celebrini I disagree with, I think he's on another tier and has shown it by being the only threat on a horrible SJ team. I think Celebrini in Demidov's position playing with Hutson et al would be playing extremely well.

Either way, we will see how he looks next season. I think he'll end up being a Kaprizov-level guy with maybe a little lower offensive numbers but a bit more physicality to his game.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Yes, I agree with you. I think there were just crazy expectations by some Habs fans, and all people are doing is calling Demidov out relative to those expectations. Were those expectations realistic? No, not really.

I agree he is a similar caliber of player to Michkov. Celebrini I disagree with, I think he's on another tier and has shown it by being the only threat on a horrible SJ team. I think Celebrini in Demidov's position playing with Hutson et al would be playing extremely well.

Either way, we will see how he looks next season. I think he'll end up being a Kaprizov-level guy with maybe a little lower offensive numbers but a bit more physicality to his game.

Lol, you have absolutely no way of knowing how Celebrini would do in the same situation as Demidov right now.

With how physical, big, fast, and aggressive WSH is and has been in this series, I think it’s a very safe bet that there’d be a learning curve for him, just as there has been for both Hutson and Demidov.

They both looked to be caught off guard by the sheer level of speed and intensity of playoff hockey in game 1, and have both gotten progressively better as the series has gone on.

Hutson had made adjustments already by midway through game 2. It’s no surprise that Hutson hit his stride a little quicker than Demidov - he’s a couple years older, and has played in the NHL all year.

Last night, Demidov played with much more poise, looked much more confident, hesitated less and was more aggressive. He made less mistakes, and was generating plenty of scoring chances.

We all saw what Hutson did last night, so I don’t even need to get into that. I expect them both to continue to improve, especially Demidov. He’s 19 and he’s played 5 games, with 3 of them against the top seed in the playoffs.

The trolls coming out of the woodwork are hilarious, and reminiscent of what they did in the regular season every time Hutson made a mistake. Demidov is doing well, and is adjusting quickly.

 

[The Last Red]

I’m feeling a goal from Demi tomorrow.

 

[MoneyManny]

This is purposefuly obtuse, i'm sure he meant the regular season in which he had 2 goals, 2 assists and registered a point in 3 of his first 5 games.

Now with that said, the first 5 games of an NHL season are nothing compared to the NHL Playoffs, so its just not a fair comparison.

But everyone here, you included, knows he didn't mean preseason games

Whatever he meant, he still compared it to Demidov's playoffs so the point remains the same,

 

[River Meadow]

Demidov made a play or two last game that showed off his sky high skill level.

That's gonna keep coming out more and more.

He's gonna be scary good, IMO.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

He played 2 games in the regular season. He was great in the first game and so-so in the second one. He has then had 2 decent to bad playoff games and 1 pretty good playoff game. The hype was out of control and that's all some people are calling out (other than the one guy I agree is trippin).

To answer your question, the kinds of guys that end up becoming Ovechkin-level talents, i.e. all-time great players, generally do look phenomenal from the get go. It's hard to make a list of guys that did it in the playoffs because generally playoff teams aren't adding rookies to their team.

However, I'll give it a shot.

Makar was phenomenal in his first playoffs as one example. McAvoy had 3 assists in 6 games and was very good in his first playoffs. Guentzel, though a few years older, had 21 pts in 25 games in his first playoffs. Quinn Hughes in his D+2 had 16 pts in 17 games in the playoffs and was similarly fantastic. Nathan MacKinnon in his D+1 (same as Demidov) had 10 pts in 7 playoff games, showing the game-breaking potential it took a few more years for him to fully realize. Karlsson had 6 points in his first 6 playoff games, albeit after a long and productive season. Hertl 5 pts in his first 7 playoff games.

Obviously these aren't directly comparable because a lot of these guys had more of a full season to get up to speed, but the idea that young players can't excel in the POs isn't true, especially when you're comparing said player to people like Ovechkin, Kucherov, Malkin et cetera.

I only included active players too, the list is way longer if you look at all players. The point is that true all-time greats usually do look like all-time greats from the very start, even if they're starting mostly in the playoffs. I'm not even saying that Demidov can't be that, but it's totally fair to call attention to the fact that he's not doing anything close to what an Ovechkin-level talent would be doing. That doesn't mean he can't become Malkin 2.0, I'm sure he will be pretty close to that. But it's totally fair to call out.

All the players you mentioned except for McAvoy had a huge advantage over Demidov. They were at least 1 year older and many of them spent the whole reg season in the nhl.

Demidov's situation is very uniqued and it rarely happens.

 

[Michoulicious]

Demidov on the first PP gonna lead to fireworks. Kid's vision and hands is custom made to play with Hutson, Suzuki and Caufield.