F Cayden Lindstrom - Medicine Hat Tigers, WHL (2024, 4th, CBJ)

Monk

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Feb 5, 2008
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Right because Columbus couldn't use a PPG forward. :laugh: This is excuse-making for bad drafting at the highest level.

Nobody's making excuses for a bad outcome that hasn't happened yet, c'mon. Everyone "making excuses" is simply suggesting that we collectively wait for this to actually play out instead of jumping to conclusions, good or bad. That's true of Lindstrom and whichever "PPG forward," an equally premature conclusion, that you think CBJ should have drafted instead.
 
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CristianoRonaldo

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Apr 7, 2014
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In your head
So short-term VS longterm.

If I'm CBJ, I'm going with the centers (Fantilli & Lindstrom) over wingers (Demidov & Michkov) 10 times out of 10. And I'm sure CBJ mgt isn't going to regret it unless Marchenko, Chinahkov, Voronkov & KJ all turn into busts. Wingers don't win championship, Centers, Dmen & Goalies do.

This huge mistake is only a problem if CBJ desperately needed a franchise winger. They don't.

Lindstrom is not a center, he will be a winger in the NHL, if he makes it.
 

TopC0rner

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Feb 21, 2018
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Prospect injuries happen. It was considered the best that he had an operation, and I believe a full recovery is expected. Give the kid a chance to recover and show what he can do.
 
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Just Linda

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Feb 24, 2018
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So short-term VS longterm.

If I'm CBJ, I'm going with the centers (Fantilli & Lindstrom) over wingers (Demidov & Michkov) 10 times out of 10. And I'm sure CBJ mgt isn't going to regret it unless Marchenko, Chinahkov, Voronkov & KJ all turn into busts. Wingers don't win championship, Centers, Dmen & Goalies do.

This huge mistake is only a problem if CBJ desperately needed a franchise winger. They don't.

You'd be making the right choice imo

My only concern would be the injury plus the Demidov wanting to play centre dynamic.

Size plus injury

vs

Skill plus uncertainty

It would be a real tough choice for me to make on that one. I'd lean Demidov but that's only because I have hindsight.
 

Dr Quincy

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Jun 19, 2005
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So you think that a multimillion dollar organization equipped with far more medical information, talks with coaches, doctors and the player himself didn't do their due diligence before drafting him? You think that a team ready to invest millions into a 4oa chose him, and months later would take even the 33rd oa because of a situation they knew was coming?!

Yea, I'll trust the guys with the chart over the opinion of the guy on the keyboard here!
This appeal to authority fallacy means nothing. Multimillion dollar organizations make wrong decisions every single day, even when they are equipped with lots of information. Hockey GMs know more about hockey and prospects than we do. Yet a hockey GM thought it was a good idea to trade a 1st rd pick for Griffin Reinhart instead of selecting Matt Barzal. A multimillion dollar organization with pro scouting, coaches and personnel watching games and practices decided that Martin St Louis wasn't an NHL player and waived him. Same with Carter Verhaeghe. A team traded Dominik Hasek for Stephane Beauregard and future considerations.

Either the Columbus Blue Jackets made a good pick or a bad pick and it's too early to know which. But the idea that it MUST'VE been ok because their doctors wouldn't have allowed them to pick a guy unless they were 100% sure he would be healthy is just a fallacy. Teams trade for, draft and sign guys with injuries all the time and have it blow up in their face (or work out). All those teams have doctors. Yet mistakes happen.

If you have any other reasons to believe it was a good decision, post them. But if you don't, just saying that doctors must be right is silly. Because I don't think those doctors said he still wouldn't be playing or practicing hockey at this point. So they were wrong about that. It's possible that they were wrong about more than that. I like him and hope for the best, but this is not what the team thought was going to happen when they made the pick. Period.
 

Crede777

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Dec 16, 2009
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He’s right though. They said they couldn’t draft Michkov in large part because they needed an immediate contributor.

Well, Fantilli was okay-ish until getting injured in year 1. How much was that year really worth? Year 2, Michkov is clearly outproducing Fantilli.

It would seem like the “can’t draft Michkov because we need more of an immediate impact” rhetoric completely backfired.

That’s why the “let’s be patient with Lindstrom and look at his long term potential” rhetoric seems completely inconsistent with the Michkov rhetoric.

If they want to admit they got the 2023 draft wrong and that’s why they are taking a different stance for 2024, fair enough. Otherwise, it seems an inconsistent stance.
First off, Columbus had two different GM's between 2023 and 2024. So it's entirely possible that their draft philosophy changed between those two years.

Second, Michkov coming over in year 2 was actually a fairly big surprise. Most of the pundits put him at coming over in year 3 at the earliest. Plus, we do not know what if anything Michkov's camp said to Columbus. It's clear that Philadelphia was a spot that he preferred to go to. It's entirely possible that Michkov, if drafted by Columbus, says that he will just stay in the KHL.

We can talk about the choice to draft Lindstrom instead of someone like Demidov given his injury status and the fact that Demidov was at the combine and engaged with all the teams there that wanted to interview him.

But Fantilli over Michkov is something totally different given their positions and the fact that Fantilli was clearly willing to come to Columbus. Plus, let's not forget that many draft rankings had Fantilli going over Michkov due to his position and production in the NCAA.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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First off, Columbus had two different GM's between 2023 and 2024. So it's entirely possible that their draft philosophy changed between those two years.

Second, Michkov coming over in year 2 was actually a fairly big surprise. Most of the pundits put him at coming over in year 3 at the earliest. Plus, we do not know what if anything Michkov's camp said to Columbus. It's clear that Philadelphia was a spot that he preferred to go to. It's entirely possible that Michkov, if drafted by Columbus, says that he will just stay in the KHL.

We can talk about the choice to draft Lindstrom instead of someone like Demidov given his injury status and the fact that Demidov was at the combine and engaged with all the teams there that wanted to interview him.

But Fantilli over Michkov is something totally different given their positions and the fact that Fantilli was clearly willing to come to Columbus. Plus, let's not forget that many draft rankings had Fantilli going over Michkov due to his position and production in the NCAA.
I’m just talking about in hindsight. At the time, you are correct. However, we have additional data now and I think for fans to take one stance for the 2023 draft and another for the 2024 draft is a little inconsistent, unless the logic is a “I messed up with my 2023 calculations, so I’ll take a different strategy for 2024” type of thing.
 

CristianoRonaldo

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Apr 7, 2014
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In your head
What makes you say that? I ask because I'm not the biggest follower of Junior league hockey. I've only seen highlights of Lindstrom.

He's not a puck disher, last year Basha was the one carrying the puck and passing it around. He's great around the board, cycles the puck well, but he rarely cuts inside or setup his teammates.

He plays like a winger in the junior league, I can't see how he turns into a center in the NHL.
 
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viceroy

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Mar 5, 2011
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Lindstrom is not a center, he will be a winger in the NHL, if he makes it.

Yeah there was talk before of him playing in the NHL as a Wing but now? with his back issues? Taking face-offs is gonna be quite trying for him. I definitely see him being converted full time as a Wing in the NHL as more than just a possibility.

It'd be pretty funny if eventually Lindstrom ended up on the Wing and Demidov switched to Centre.
 

CBJx614

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He’s right though. They said they couldn’t draft Michkov in large part because they needed an immediate contributor.

Well, Fantilli was okay-ish until getting injured in year 1. How much was that year really worth? Year 2, Michkov is clearly outproducing Fantilli.

It would seem like the “can’t draft Michkov because we need more of an immediate impact” rhetoric completely backfired.

That’s why the “let’s be patient with Lindstrom and look at his long term potential” rhetoric seems completely inconsistent with the Michkov rhetoric.

If they want to admit they got the 2023 draft wrong and that’s why they are taking a different stance for 2024, fair enough. Otherwise, it seems an inconsistent stance.
Who said they wanted an immediate contributor? It wasn't Jarmo... I can't remember a draft in recent CBJ history where they've ever said anything close to that.
Michkov falling was stupid. NHL teams can be dumb. I don’t think Michkov had anything to do with what I was saying though. I was simply saying long term it doesn’t necessarily mean he is done for. Obviously it isn’t ideal but they are where they are with him now.
Michkov fell because he wanted to, he wanted to go to Philly, CBJ didn't even interview him, likely because they as much.
 

staveNsteel

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Jan 18, 2021
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This appeal to authority fallacy means nothing. Multimillion dollar organizations make wrong decisions every single day, even when they are equipped with lots of information. Hockey GMs know more about hockey and prospects than we do. Yet a hockey GM thought it was a good idea to trade a 1st rd pick for Griffin Reinhart instead of selecting Matt Barzal. A multimillion dollar organization with pro scouting, coaches and personnel watching games and practices decided that Martin St Louis wasn't an NHL player and waived him. Same with Carter Verhaeghe. A team traded Dominik Hasek for Stephane Beauregard and future considerations.

Either the Columbus Blue Jackets made a good pick or a bad pick and it's too early to know which. But the idea that it MUST'VE been ok because their doctors wouldn't have allowed them to pick a guy unless they were 100% sure he would be healthy is just a fallacy. Teams trade for, draft and sign guys with injuries all the time and have it blow up in their face (or work out). All those teams have doctors. Yet mistakes happen.

If you have any other reasons to believe it was a good decision, post them. But if you don't, just saying that doctors must be right is silly. Because I don't think those doctors said he still wouldn't be playing or practicing hockey at this point. So they were wrong about that. It's possible that they were wrong about more than that. I like him and hope for the best, but this is not what the team thought was going to happen when they made the pick. Period.
Reread.. did I say 100% or did I say due diligence? Everything else you said is irrelevant. Do you know what the team thought would happen? Absolutely not.. could they have hoped for rest with a possibility of surgery if it didn't work out? Why not? We have no information on what they thought and what their long-term plan to handle it was. You think that they didn't think that surgery could have possibly been on the table, come on.. any good business decisions plans for both the best and worst possible outcome, and would have gone down all of those paths in making their choice.

Yes teams make bad decisions all the time, and will continue to do so. However, 5 months ago, in making the decision to take Lindstrom, the organization would have done their due diligence with such a high pick.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

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Who said they wanted an immediate contributor? It wasn't Jarmo... I can't remember a draft in recent CBJ history where they've ever said anything close to that.
I think it was widely discussed and viewed as they didn't consider Michkov because the management was under immediate pressure to win right away (and they ended up losing their jobs not long after). They weren't able to wait for a player that it was viewed as might not be able to join the team for 2-3 years, at the earliest.
 

UED

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May 2, 2021
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michkov is having a horrific year, PP points are worthless if they are attached to an even strength liability, it's not time to hindsight laugh at the blue jackets who are 5th in scoring and 30th in goals against. i wouldn't have picked an injured guy 4th though I think that just halves your odds of hitting, drafting is already 50-50 enough when you pick a healthy guy. he wasn't even that impressive in the WHL the 3rd highest pace on his average team that lost in the first round and has never been a star in a tournament. yet another gambly element, IMO too much gambling for just a potential PLD, I think they would never trade a 4th overall pick for dubois. but I hope he becomes very good, why not.
 

Aaaarrgghh

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michkov is having a horrific year, PP points are worthless if they are attached to an even strength liability, it's not time to hindsight laugh at the blue jackets who are 5th in scoring and 30th in goals against. i wouldn't have picked an injured guy 4th though I think that just halves your odds of hitting, drafting is already 50-50 enough when you pick a healthy guy. he wasn't even that impressive in the WHL the 3rd highest pace on his average team that lost in the first round and has never been a star in a tournament. yet another gambly element, IMO too much gambling for just a potential PLD, I think they would never trade a 4th overall pick for dubois. but I hope he becomes very good, why not.
Lindstrom had very impressive numbers when his TOI was considered. His back was the only reason he was available at #4. Chicago would have run up to the podium to grab him if he was healthy.

I wanted Demidov for CBJ at the time. But let's wait and see with Lindstrom. Just because someone who writes about the Islanders for The Hockey Writers says someone in the CBJ organisation told him that Lindstrom is done for the season, that doesn't make it true. It's possible, though, and would be very, very concerning.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
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michkov is having a horrific year, PP points are worthless if they are attached to an even strength liability, it's not time to hindsight laugh at the blue jackets who are 5th in scoring and 30th in goals against. i wouldn't have picked an injured guy 4th though I think that just halves your odds of hitting, drafting is already 50-50 enough when you pick a healthy guy. he wasn't even that impressive in the WHL the 3rd highest pace on his average team that lost in the first round and has never been a star in a tournament. yet another gambly element, IMO too much gambling for just a potential PLD, I think they would never trade a 4th overall pick for dubois. but I hope he becomes very good, why not.
Those first six words discredit anything said after.
 

FlyguyOX

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Jun 29, 2018
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I am not debating CBJ decision to pass on Michkov. Merely pointing out the humor in being ok waiting for a prospect to wait 6 years to realize potential but same GM's/HF posters being scared of when Michkov would come over. No idea if that applies to CBJ.
 
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Monk

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Feb 5, 2008
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I think it was widely discussed and viewed as they didn't consider Michkov because the management was under immediate pressure to win right away (and they ended up losing their jobs not long after). They weren't able to wait for a player that it was viewed as might not be able to join the team for 2-3 years, at the earliest.

Yeah, preeeeetty sure that's not real. I don't recall that at all. Got a source for us?

Alternatively, Friedman said "it is a fact" on his podcast that Michkov wanted to play only for certain teams. I'm not going to find the exact podcast/spot where it's discussed, but it's an easy Google if you want to read articles that discuss it and you can pick whichever source you like.

Why would CBJ draft a guy that didn't want to play for them? Not sure why we're talking about Michkov at all tbh.

PS. You seem to be confused about your timeline & which CBJ management drafted Lindstrom.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Dec 8, 2013
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Yeah, preeeeetty sure that's not real. I don't recall that at all. Got a source for us?

Alternatively, Friedman said "it is a fact" on his podcast that Michkov wanted to play only for certain teams. I'm not going to find the exact podcast/spot where it's discussed, but it's an easy Google if you want to read articles that discuss it and you can pick whichever source you like.

Why would CBJ draft a guy that didn't want to play for them? Not sure why we're talking about Michkov at all tbh.

PS. You seem to be confused about your timeline & which CBJ management drafted Lindstrom.
I was posting in this forum at the time and I remember very succinctly that after the draft lottery was made that Michkov was not even really discussed for Columbus as an option. He was thought to be much more of an option for Montreal, even a team like Anaheim. Washington was talked about a lot. I think even Utah (Arizona) and San Jose were talked about more often than Columbus. It was viewed pretty definitive that Columbus was not interested in Michkov. So maybe they knew right after the draft lottery that he would refuse to play for them and for that reason they had no interest, but it seems more to me that Columbus didn't consider the player, whether he would've wanted to go there or not. I am not going to take the time to look for a source, but as someone who consumes draft coverage, I remember this as a main talking point at the time.

And I said pretty clearly that I am talking about fans. It's talking out of both sides of one's mouth to be taking such different stances, so no, I am not confused. Stick to addressing what I actually said and stop your incorrect presumptions to try to discredit me.
 

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