Explain this 2008 trade: Steen and Colaiacovo for Stempniak

[Halakitlikethat]

It’s the offseason now so I feel like I can ask this.

If this should be in the history section, mods I am sorry.

November 24th 2008

Toronto trades Alexander Steen AND Carlo Colaiacovo to St Louis for Lee Stempniak.

Please make sense of this trade at the time from a leafs perspective. This is not a leafs bashing thread.

Thanks

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[Brodeur]

Just looking at Toronto's roster and it was heavy LH shots.

W: Blake (LH) - Ponikarovsky (LH) - Hagman (LH) - Kulemin (LH) - Steen (LH) - Mayers (RH)
C: Grabovski (LH) - Stajan (LH) - Antropov (LH) - Moore (LH)

It was Nik Kulemin's rookie year and I seem to recall he was a well-regarded prospect. Not sure if Steen lost time as a result. Colaiacovo seemed to be a tweener and found a role in St. Louis.

Maybe reminds me of Anaheim indirectly swapping Kyle Palmieri for Carl Hagelin at the 2015 Draft. Palmieri was behind Perry/Ryan, so the thought was that they were swapping a 3RW for a 2LW. Didn't quite work out.

So perhaps the Leafs thought the same that they were adding a 2RW in Stempniak.

1999 Devils were also mostly LH shots, early in that season Lou swapped Brian Rolston for Claude Lemieux. And last year's Devils were similar, part of the reason they swapped out Yegor Sharangovich for Tyler Toffoli so they could have a RH shot up front on the PP.

Edit: Quick peek at the spring 2008 THN Future Watch and Kulemin was the #24 ranked prospect league wide. Looking at some of Steen's final games as a Leaf and he was dipping below 15 minutes in a few of them.

Toronto Maple Leafs vs. Vancouver Canucks Box Score: November 15, 2008 | Hockey-Reference.com

Get the latest box score updates on the Toronto Maple Leafs vs. Vancouver Canucks game played on November 15, 2008 on Hockey-Reference.com

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Wingers: Kulemin (16:31), Ponikarovsky (16:27), Hagman (16:14), Blake (14:09), Mayers (13:32), Steen (11:53), Hollweg (7:16)

Atlanta Thrashers vs. Toronto Maple Leafs Box Score: November 25, 2008 | Hockey-Reference.com

Get the latest box score updates on the Atlanta Thrashers vs. Toronto Maple Leafs game played on November 25, 2008 on Hockey-Reference.com

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In Stempniak's first game as a Leaf, he posted 17:16.

 

[Rafafouille]

Looking at db it makes sense. Steen is 7 years post draft, settled around 40 points a year, in a ridiculous slump(4pts in 20games), Colaiacovo is 8 years post draft, barely hanging in the NHL, lots of AHL stints, basically given up in him at this point. Then St Louis offers you Stempniak who's had 52pts, 38pts and now 13pts in 14 games to start the season and you have nobody at RW2? Seems like a no brainer for the Leafs. Then Steen becomes a stud, Colaiacovo figures it out for a few years and the leafs look like a bunch of fools.

 

[Turin]

Steen was a late bloomer who Toronto gave up on too early, Colaiacovo looked like he was too injury prone to stay in the league.

 

[Thallis]

Steen was a late bloomer who Toronto gave up on too early, Colaiacovo looked like he was too injury prone to stay in the league.

Which he kinda was to be fair. The Blues board's annual injury thread is usually named the Colaiacovo Report

 

[Turin]

Which he kinda was to be fair. The Blues board's annual injury thread is usually named the Colaiacovo Report

Yea, they were mostly right. He wound up developing into a decent defenseman but still only lasted a handful of seasons - insert infamous GIF here.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I do remember Stempniak had some hype behind him. HF praised this trade as a Leafs win IIRC.

 

[Coffey]

Looking at db it makes sense. Steen is 7 years post draft, settled around 40 points a year, in a ridiculous slump(4pts in 20games), Colaiacovo is 8 years post draft, barely hanging in the NHL, lots of AHL stints, basically given up in him at this point. Then St Louis offers you Stempniak who's had 52pts, 38pts and now 13pts in 14 games to start the season and you have nobody at RW2? Seems like a no brainer for the Leafs. Then Steen becomes a stud, Colaiacovo figures it out for a few years and the leafs look like a bunch of fools.

There it is.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Stempniak was a good prospect at the time. Before he became the NHL's town bicycle LOL

 

[JoeSakic13]

Based on the Jeff Finger signing earlier that year, they probably thought they were trading for David Perron.

 

[SUX2BU]

Yea, they were mostly right. He wound up developing into a decent defenseman but still only lasted a handful of seasons - insert infamous GIF here.

Done …….

 

[DitchMarner]

Steen seemed to be lost in the shuffle at that point. He had promise but wasn't taking the next step. From what I remember, he was a different type of player back then than he would be in his prime with STL. He was softer and more of a perimeter finesse player, who could get you about 15 goals and 40 points. He was kind of like young Nylander but with less skill and production.

TOR had a couple of new guys who were fairly young (Kulemin, Grabovski) and Stajan had been drafted the same year as Steen. I guess they figured it was time to move on.

Steen became a stronger and more productive player after the trade and ended up being a better player than Stempniak, who bounced around a lot. I never cared too much for Stempniak. He could shoot pretty well but was otherwise kind of just there, it seemed. Not really surprised he kept moving around the League.

 

[seventieslord]

Steen seemed to be lost in the shuffle at that point. He had promise but wasn't taking the next step. From what I remember, he was a different type of player back then that he would be in his prime with STL. He was softer and more of a perimeter finesse player, who could get you about 15 goals and 40 points. He was kind of like young Nylander but with less skill and production.

TOR had a couple of new guys who were fairly young (Kulemin, Grabovski) and Stajan had been drafted the same year as Steen. I guess they figured it was time to move on.

Steen became a stronger and more productive player after the trade and ended up being a better player than Stempniak, who bounced around a lot. I never cared too much for Stempniak. He could shoot pretty well but was otherwise kind of just there, it seemed. Not really surprised he kept moving around the League.

I was so surprised by one of the things you said in here that I had to go fact check it.

I remembered we lost Grabovski after the Boston series in 2013. So when you said we had him during 08-09, I was going to call BS right away. There's no way we had him for four seasons, and certainly not for five.

Apparently we did.

He was 5th in post lockout leafs GP as of 2013, and is still 17th today!

----

As for the initial question posed by the thread.. I hated the trade immediately and I of course hate it now. I'm really surprised at the thoughtful justifications for it (which honestly make the trade sound like it wasn't such a bad idea), because I didn't feel they were any good justifications for it back then. I thought that anybody who wanted Steen from us should have been paying an additional young defenseman, not the other way around.

 

[DitchMarner]

I was so surprised by one of the things you said in here that I had to go fact check it.

I remembered we lost Grabovski after the Boston series in 2013. So when you said we had him during 08-09, I was going to call BS right away. There's no way we had him for four seasons, and certainly not for five.

Apparently we did.

He was 5th in post lockout leafs GP as of 2013, and is still 17th today!

----

As for the initial question posed by the thread.. I hated the trade immediately and I of course hate it now. I'm really surprised at the thoughtful justifications for it (which honestly make the trade sound like it wasn't such a bad idea), because I didn't feel they were any good justifications for it back then. I thought that anybody who wanted Steen from us should have been paying an additional young defenseman, not the other way around.

Oh, I don't think it was a good trade. I just wanted to point out that TOR Steen wasn't quite prime STL Steen for the people who didn't follow at the time.

Looking back, I don't really know what TOR was doing exactly between the Sundin era and the rebuild that led to Matthews. As much people criticize Shanahan, at least the team has had some sort of a coherent direction the last number of years. Playoff underachieving has definitely been a problem, though.

But before that, it was kind of like...

These young guys (Steen and Colaiacovo) aren't really working out - trade them
Finger and Komisarek are UFAs - sign them!
Hire Burke! Hire Wilson!
Kessel is available. Trade whatever you can to get him!
Phaneuf is available. Acquire him and give him the C!
Fire Wilson. Hire Carlyle!
Sign Grabovski and Kessel long-term. Buy out Grabovski!
Sign Clarkson to a ridiculous contract!
Fire Carlyle!

 

[Johnny Engine]

Looking back, I don't really know what TOR was doing exactly between the Sundin era and the rebuild that led to Matthews. As much people criticize Shanahan, at least the team has had some sort of a coherent direction the last number of years. Playoff underachieving has definitely been a problem, though.

I think the era you're talking about is pretty easily explained as a series of logical, predictable events, with the key figures in ownership and management taking actions that were most likely to benefit them, but absolutely did not benefit the hockey team in the present or future. I could expand on that, but don't really want to drop a wall of text here.

I also think "The Shanaplan" as I understand it, did not succeed at all in creating a coherent and purposeful management team, and that's been masked by the top-end talent they've collected along the way.

In the case of this trade, I sort of wonder whether it was Wilson that was the driving force behind wanting those players gone - it's the best reason I can come up with for an interim GM making a trade like that right before the new guy steps in.

 

[Stephen]

There's no good explanation for it other than the Leafs were going into the toilet at the time, in the process of a regime change from JFJ to interim Fletcher and soon to be Brian Burke, and two former first rounders who were under performing were dealt for a similar aged, moderately productive player. If anything it probably should have been a 2 for 2 at the time and not the 2 for 1, with 2 first rounders going out there door. There were no pressure points and Stempniak was a bit shit.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I remember at the time I liked both Stempniak and Steen but didn’t like Colaiacovo, so I was ok with it at the time but obviously it turned out really bad

 

[seventieslord]

Stempniak played part of one season with the Leafs, and part of the next.

...and in a 900 game career, the Leafs are the team he played the 3rd-most games with.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I remember being very surprised that Steen developed into such a good player, it was quite unexpected.

 

[MS]

Looking at db it makes sense. Steen is 7 years post draft, settled around 40 points a year, in a ridiculous slump(4pts in 20games), Colaiacovo is 8 years post draft, barely hanging in the NHL, lots of AHL stints, basically given up in him at this point. Then St Louis offers you Stempniak who's had 52pts, 38pts and now 13pts in 14 games to start the season and you have nobody at RW2? Seems like a no brainer for the Leafs. Then Steen becomes a stud, Colaiacovo figures it out for a few years and the leafs look like a bunch of fools.

Pretty much this.

They lost patience with Steen who had flatlined/regressed after a strong rookie year and was having a terrible start to 08-09 and figured that cashing Steen + a fringe NHLer in CC in for a legit 2nd line winger in Stempniak who had 13 points in 14 games to start the year was a good call.

Steen and Stempniak were pretty close to the same age and I don't think there's much debate that Stempniak was a better NHL player at that point. But Stempniak's career ended up being just a whole bunch of stops and starts (extremely streaky player who wore out his welcome quickly) while Steen rebuilt his career in St. Louis to become a fine two-way player.

The cherry on the top of this whole thing for Toronto was when they dumped Stempniak late the next season for next to nothing (basically a 4th round pick) and then he ripped off 14 goals in 18 games for the Coyotes.

 

[EpochLink]

Steen excelled in St.Louis and became a Blues legend.

 

[frontsfan2005]

The Leafs were expecting Steen and Colaiacovo to take the next step, and they didn't. Steen was struggling in 08-09 (20 GP, 2 G, 2 A, 4 PTS) and Carlo couldn't stay healthy. As both were first round picks, obviously in Toronto, this comes with a ton of pressure and expectations.

Steen had a very good rookie season (75 GP, 18 G, 27 A, 45 PTS in 05-06) but seemed to regress after that. As for Colaiacovo, he missed a ton of time due to injuries. Steen was 24 at the time of the trade and Colaiacovo was 26.

Stempniak was a good right hand shot that the Leafs needed, had a 27-goal season in 06-07, and put up 13 points in 14 games to start his 08-09. He was 25 years old.

Steen's poor offense continued in St. Louis in 08-09 (61 GP, 6 G, 22 A, 28 PTS) but Colaiacovo was able to stay healthy and was getting top-4 minutes (63 GP, 3 G, 26 A, 29 PTS). Steen, of course, finds his game in 2009-10, gets Hart Trophy votes in 2014 and wins the Cup in 2019. Colaiacovo stayed with the Blues until 2012, averaging 65 games a year, but seemed to be in a steady decline in his final year of his first stint. Colaiacovo did return to the Blues in 2014 for 25 games.

As for Stempniak, his numbers took a dive in Toronto in 08-09 (61 GP, 11 G, 20 A, 31 PTS) after his very hot start with St. Louis. After another mediocre season in 09-10 (62 GP, 14 G, 16 A, 30 PTS), the Leafs traded him away to the Coyotes for Matt Jones and 4th and 7th round picks, and Stempniak gets hot again with the Coyotes (18 GP, 14 G, 4 A, 18 PTS). Stempniak, a 5th round pick in 2003, would carve out a good NHL career for his draft position (911 GP, 203 G, 266 A, 469 PTS), but this trade turned into a complete disaster for the Leafs.

The immediate effects say Colaiacovo help stabilize the Blues defense as Brewer eventually had back surgery in December 2008 and left a big hole. The Blues did make the post-season in 2009. Long-term, obviously, Steen is by far the best player in the trade.