Expansion draft thread

[Fistfullofbeer]

In other bad news, the Sharks gave up a top 3 pick to acquire the shell of EK65 and gave him over 14% of their cap.

The Karlsson trade was lauded as a win for the Sharks. Norris was an unknown, Balcers was at best a projected 3rd line winger and a 1st round pick was expected to be in the 10-15 spot at best. Also keep in mind that the Sharks did make it to the WC finals after the trade. Karlsson was the best Sharks player despite being on one leg.

And, hindsight is 20/20 but the Karlsson signing, while never great, looks even worse because of several reasons.

- Injuries after he joined the Sharks. This is the first season he has really been healthy.
- The Sharks team is simply terrible and lack of elite talent at the forward position. Too many passengers.
- Terrible goaltending along with equally bad team defense unable to bail out risk taking offensive D-men like Burns and Karlsson.
- Combination of the coaching and forwards who refuse to not cover Karlsson when he rushes in the offensive zone.
- Flat cap making the contract even worse than it is. If the cap had gone up two consecutive seasons (like it normally does), it would not look as bad as it does now.

He is never going to be the player he was when he was 26 and is overpaid. There is no arguing that. But you have to look at the whole picture and not just be selective about things.

 

[Kat Predator]

The Karlsson trade was lauded as a win for the Sharks. Norris was an unknown, Balcers was at best a projected 3rd line winger and a 1st round pick was expected to be in the 10-15 spot at best. Also keep in mind that the Sharks did make it to the WC finals after the trade. Karlsson was the best Sharks player despite being on one leg.

And, hindsight is 20/20 but the Karlsson signing, while never great, looks even worse because of several reasons.

- Injuries after he joined the Sharks. This is the first season he has really been healthy.
- The Sharks team is simply terrible and lack of elite talent at the forward position. Too many passengers.
- Terrible goaltending along with equally bad team defense unable to bail out risk taking offensive D-men like Burns and Karlsson.
- Combination of the coaching and forwards who refuse to not cover Karlsson when he rushes in the offensive zone.
- Flat cap making the contract even worse than it is. If the cap had gone up two consecutive seasons (like it normally does), it would not look as bad as it does now.

He is never going to be the player he was when he was 26 and is overpaid. There is no arguing that. But you have to look at the whole picture and not just be selective about things.

I full well know.

I was responding to a post that the Sharks would have to give up a top 3 pick to get rid of Vlasic, and pointing out they gave up exactly that to bring on a broken player and terrible contract. Irony.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I full well know.

I was responding to a post that the Sharks would have to give up a top 3 pick to get rid of Vlasic, and pointing out they gave up exactly that to bring on a broken player and terrible contract. Irony.

The fact that you think these two situations are comparable makes me think that you do not know.

 

[CupInSIX]

Holtby hasn't been good for some time and looks really lost in Vancouver so far.
You could try it given that he has only one year left on his deal and there's not much else available on the Canucks, but it could be better just to take a guy like Cole Lind and hope he might become something while being able to spend the money saved on someone else.

I'd throw in Jake Allen(who's really solid and at the very least a top notch 1B option at $2.85 mil), Matiss Kivlenieks, Anton Khoubodin, Jack Campbell as some solid options as well.

I also wouldn't be surprised if we'd go after an UFA like Rittich, Grubauer etc.



Quick has a cap hit of $5.8 mil(which is the important thing here) and hasn't been all that good for quite some time.
So unless the Kings would offer something significant in return(which they won't because they're still in a rebuilt and in no rush to clear cap space for a run at a top notch FA) it makes no sense in taking him(especially with those other options available).

I mean, P.K. Subban would only be owed $2 mil(which could make him more interesting, especially if we just wanted to hit the cap floor and add a charismatic guy) as well, but his cap hit would be $9m which is the important part in building a roster.

I'm thinking it's looking like Khudhobin, a younger goalie and maybe Raanta.

That's an interesting point on the draft being well after most signing bonuses are paid out though...I can definitely see them taking Subban if he only costs them 2m.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I'm thinking it's looking like Khudhobin, a younger goalie and maybe Raanta.

That's an interesting point on the draft being well after most signing bonuses are paid out though...I can definitely see them taking Subban if he only costs them 2m.

I am actually really excited about the goalie situation. There are going to be some good choices.

 

[CupInSIX]

I am actually really excited about the goalie situation. There are going to be some good choices.

Which goalies in the 23-24yo range will be eligible?

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

Which goalies in the 23-24yo range will be eligible?

Vanecek will be 25 I believe,Husso 26,Lindgren 28,Ingram 24,Kivlenieks 25,Montembeault 25,Brossoit 28

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Which goalies in the 23-24yo range will be eligible?

Honestly not sure. I was talking from the perspective of having a lot of chances at a 1A/1B kind of situation.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Quick's Cap hit has little to do with actual dollars since his contract was front loaded. So actual real money to Seattle if they decide Quick is their man is 3.0M and 2.5M in 2021-22 and 2022-23!Plus they would get a 'tender that could be traded to a Cup contender for picks. But that might be something the Kings do or not since it looks like their 'tenders on the "Farm" are really "green" at this point

I'm not talking about what he's actually being paid but rather his cap hit because that's important to built the roster.
It would be $5.8 mil(Subban would be $9 mil but only for one season) of our $81.5 mil spent on a guy that has been declining for the last couple of years and doesn't look like our version of Marc-Andre Fleury.

Because of that we would ask for compensation and I doubt the Kings are interested in this given that they're still in a rebuilt and, like you've said, might even like to have him around for another year as their backup goalie.

I'm thinking it's looking like Khudhobin, a younger goalie and maybe Raanta.

That's an interesting point on the draft being well after most signing bonuses are paid out though...I can definitely see them taking Subban if he only costs them 2m.

Could be.
But I'd actually say Jake Allen and some younger guys while maybe taking a flyer on a goalie in free agency(Grubauer, Rittich etc.).

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

I'm not talking about what he's actually being paid but rather his cap hit because that's important to built the roster.
It would be $5.8 mil(Subban would be $9 mil but only for one season) of our $81.5 mil spent on a guy that has been declining for the last couple of years and doesn't look like our version of Marc-Andre Fleury.

Because of that we would ask for compensation and I doubt the Kings are interested in this given that they're still in a rebuilt and, like you've said, might even like to have him around for another year as their backup goalie.



Could be.
But I'd actually say Jake Allen and some younger guys while maybe taking a flyer on a goalie in free agency(Grubauer, Rittich etc.).

The Cap hit is on LA's books and if Seattle takes Quick its the difference 5.8M and actual money 3.0M next year...Seattle pays 3.0M and LA on the hook for 2.8M on their books

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The Cap hit is on LA's books and if Seattle takes Quick its the difference 5.8M and actual money 3.0M next year...Seattle pays 3.0M and LA on the hook for 2.8M on their books

Are you sure about that? I know that the actual salary for 21-22 is 3M and 22-23 is 2.5M but I think the cap hit is 5.8M for both and will count towards the team that has Quick.

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

Are you sure about that? I know that the actual salary for 21-22 is 3M and 22-23 is 2.5M but I think the cap hit is 5.8M for both and will count towards the team that has Quick.

Am I 100% sure...well it seems logical to me...why would an Expansion team be hit with money they are not paying? Seattle would pay 3.0M and 2.5 M and that would be counted on their books with the rest LA carries! Seems like Economics/Business Foundations 101...

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Am I 100% sure...well it seems logical to me...why would an Expansion team be hit with money they are not paying? Seattle would pay 3.0M and 2.5 M and that would be counted on their books with the rest LA carries! Seems like Economics/Business Foundations 101...

I'm pretty sure we'll take on those contracts and the cap hit as well.
I mean, we just take those players and their contracts which should also include their cap hit.

BTW: Talking about goalies.
There's an interesting situation in Washington.
Everyone expected Ilya Samsonov to take over but so far Vitek Vanicek has been the better goalie and was just named rookie of the month for January.

Given that they can't protect both there could be a good option for us, if they keep both until the expansion draft.

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

I'm pretty sure we'll take on those contracts and the cap hit as well.
I mean, we just take those players and their contracts which should also include their cap hit.

BTW: Talking about goalies.
There's an interesting situation in Washington.
Everyone expected Ilya Samsonov to take over but so far Vitek Vanicek has been the better goalie and was just named rookie of the month for January.

Given that they can't protect both there could be a good option for us, if they keep both until the expansion draft.

I've been keeping an eye on Vanecek for years,he's the man between the pipes for Seattle and to help they can draft countrymen,Hajek(NYR),Zboril(Bos) for the Defense

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

The Reign have to come out angry and pissed off...Good Luck to the Reign and its players this afternoon!!!

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

Ooops wrong thread

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I'm pretty sure we'll take on those contracts and the cap hit as well.
I mean, we just take those players and their contracts which should also include their cap hit.

BTW: Talking about goalies.
There's an interesting situation in Washington.
Everyone expected Ilya Samsonov to take over but so far Vitek Vanicek has been the better goalie and was just named rookie of the month for January.

Given that they can't protect both there could be a good option for us, if they keep both until the expansion draft.

That is how I think it works too. Main reason the Senators have been one of the teams that have been taking on contracts like that for years. It helps them reach the cap floor because of the high cap hits and their cheap owner is happy because he is really not paying them as much.

 

[StreetHawk]

Which goalies in the 23-24yo range will be eligible?

Most guys that age would not be in the NHL. Only 2 year pros are exempt, so you would be best served looking through HockeyDB from the 2016 draft and earlier to see which goalies already have 2 years of Pro experience before this season.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Another attempt at an expansion draft, February edition.

Team	Player	Position	Salary	Contract
Anaheim	Josh Manson	RD	$4.1	2022
Arizona	Tyler Pitlick	RW	$1.75	2022
Boston	Jeremy Lauzon	LD/RD	$800K	2022
Buffalo	Collin Miller	RD	$3.875	2022
Calgary	Sam Bennett	LW/C	$2.55	2021(RFA)
Carolina	Jake Bean	LD	$863K	2021(RFA)
Chicago	Nikita Zadorov	LD/RD	$3.2	2021(RFA)
Colorado	Devon Toews	LD	$4.1	2024
Columbus	Eric Robinson	LW	$975K	2022
Dallas	Anton Khubodin	G	$3.33	2023
Detroit	Troy Stetcher	RD	$1.7	2022
Edmonton	Kyle Turris	C	$1.65	2022
Florida	Markus Nutivaara	RD	$2.7	2022
Los Angeles	Martin Frk	RW	$725K	2022
Minnesota	Nico Sturm	C	$725K	2022
Montreal	Jake Allen	G	$2.875	2023
Nashville	Connor Ingram	G	$733K	2023
New Jersey	Miles Wood	LW	$2.75	2022
New York Islanders	Scott Mayfield	RD	$1.45	2023
New York Rangers	Brendan Lemieux	LW	$1.55	2022
Ottawa	Chris Tierney	C	$3.5	2022
Philadelphia	Shayne Gostisbehere*	LD	$4.5	2023
Pittsburgh	Teddy Blueger	C	$750K	2021(RFA)
San Jose	Dylan Gambrell	C	$700K	2021(RFA)
St. Louis	Samuel Blais	RW	$1.5	2022
Tampa Bay	Tyler Johnson*	RW	$5.0	2024
Toronto	Travis Dermott	LD	$874K	2021(RFA)
Vancouver	Kole Lind	RW	$891K	2021(RFA)
Washington	Vitek Vanecek	G	$716K	2022
Winnipeg	Mason Appleton	RW	$900K	2022

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The total amount would be at roughly $62 million.

I'd expect us to make deals with Tampa and Philly for taking on those contracts.
Devon Toews is someone Colorado probably wants to keep so I wouldn't be too surprised if we agree to take someone else(Graves?) instead while being compensated.

I'm also staying away from Braden Holtby who hasn't been all that good this season, even though he's hardly had any help from his teammates.
I also took four goalies while looking to move one(Khoubodin), just like I loaded up on defensmen to flip one or the other after the expansion draft.

BTW: We'd certainly need to upgrade at the center spot but that will certainly be the case no matter what.
At least not as long as we aren't taking one of the higher paid Preds centers or someone like that.

 

[gstommylee]

Another attempt at an expansion draft, February edition.

Team	Player	Position	Salary	Contract
Anaheim	Josh Manson	RD	$4.1	2022
Arizona	Tyler Pitlick	RW	$1.75	2022
Boston	Jeremy Lauzon	LD/RD	$800K	2022
Buffalo	Collin Miller	RD	$3.875	2022
Calgary	Sam Bennett	LW/C	$2.55	2021(RFA)
Carolina	Jake Bean	LD	$863K	2021(RFA)
Chicago	Nikita Zadorov	LD/RD	$3.2	2021(RFA)
Colorado	Devon Toews	LD	$4.1	2024
Columbus	Eric Robinson	LW	$975K	2022
Dallas	Anton Khubodin	G	$3.33	2023
Detroit	Troy Stetcher	RD	$1.7	2022
Edmonton	Kyle Turris	C	$1.65	2022
Florida	Markus Nutivaara	RD	$2.7	2022
Los Angeles	Martin Frk	RW	$725K	2022
Minnesota	Nico Sturm	C	$725K	2022
Montreal	Jake Allen	G	$2.875	2023
Nashville	Connor Ingram	G	$733K	2023
New Jersey	Miles Wood	LW	$2.75	2022
New York Islanders	Scott Mayfield	RD	$1.45	2023
New York Rangers	Brendan Lemieux	LW	$1.55	2022
Ottawa	Chris Tierney	C	$3.5	2022
Philadelphia	Shayne Gostisbehere*	LD	$4.5	2023
Pittsburgh	Teddy Blueger	C	$750K	2021(RFA)
San Jose	Dylan Gambrell	C	$700K	2021(RFA)
St. Louis	Samuel Blais	RW	$1.5	2022
Tampa Bay	Tyler Johnson*	RW	$5.0	2024
Toronto	Travis Dermott	LD	$874K	2021(RFA)
Vancouver	Kole Lind	RW	$891K	2021(RFA)
Washington	Vitek Vanecek	G	$716K	2022
Winnipeg	Mason Appleton	RW	$900K	2022

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The total amount would be at roughly $62 million.

I'd expect us to make deals with Tampa and Philly for taking on those contracts.
Devon Toews is someone Colorado probably wants to keep so I wouldn't be too surprised if we agree to take someone else(Graves?) instead while being compensated.

I'm also staying away from Braden Holtby who hasn't been all that good this season, even though he's hardly had any help from his teammates.
I also took four goalies while looking to move one(Khoubodin), just like I loaded up on defensmen to flip one or the other after the expansion draft.

BTW: We'd certainly need to upgrade at the center spot but that will certainly be the case no matter what.
At least not as long as we aren't taking one of the higher paid Preds centers or someone like that.

you would take a goalie over TJ Oshie from washington?

 

[Mike Jones]

you would take a goalie over TJ Oshie from washington?

I agree with the choice. I like Oshie but he has a lot of term and cap hit left (Along with a modified NTC that would limit potential trades) while Vanecek is a good young goalie who has a decent cap hit who's signed through 21-22.

 

[gstommylee]

I agree with the choice. I like Oshie but he has a lot of term and cap hit left (Along with a modified NTC that would limit potential trades) while Vanecek is a good young goalie who has a decent cap hit who's signed through 21-22.

so 4 goalies where the 4th goalie does nothing but most play in the AHL for most of the season. And not take someone that will more or else produce well on the first line... Decisions like that is how you end up with a bad team at start. No way Seattle only takes 62m worth of cap hit...

Remember we do not have a AHL allifate until 22-23 season

Also Seattle taking oshie allow the player to be closer to family especially with his dad (has alzheimer dieases) who could no longer be with us by the time his contract ends with the capitals.

Oh and if you want a 4th goalie you draft a goalie and let them develop with their current clubs CHL goalies are allowed to be called up.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

you would take a goalie over TJ Oshie from washington?

Oshie will turn 35 in December and has four years at a $5.75 mil cap hit left on his contract.
He's been productive thus far but I doubt he'll be for the remaining four years of his contract.

Because of that the only way I'd take Oshie off their hands would be if the Caps would reward us with picks(at least one first rounder) and prospects(their prospect pool is pretty bad) for relieving them of his cap hit.

so 4 goalies where the 4th goalie does nothing but most play in the AHL for most of the season. And not take someone that will more or else produce well on the first line... Decisions like that is how you end up with a bad team at start. No way Seattle only takes 62m worth of cap hit...

Remember we do not have a AHL allifate until 22-23 season

Also Seattle taking oshie allow the player to be closer to family especially with his dad (has alzheimer dieases) who could no longer be with us by the time his contract ends with the capitals.

Oh and if you want a 4th goalie you draft a goalie and let them develop with their current clubs CHL goalies are allowed to be called up.

1) Like I've stated in my post, one of the goalies(most likely Khoubodin, maybe even Allen) would be traded before the season starts.
There's always a need for goaltending and both of those guys would have a market for their services.

2) Even without our own AHL affiliate in 2021-22, we'll still be able to send players to the AHL.
We'll just do that like a couple other teams(just like Vegas) and share an AHL affiliate with another NHL team for that one season.

3) I'm not sure what your point is regarding the $62 million cap hit.

Do you think we'll take less of a cap hit?
If so, taking Vanecek instead of Oshie would actually make more sense.

Or do you think we'll take a bigger cap hit(to have more proven players)?

To me going younger(and cheaper) during the expansion draft makes a lot of sense.
There's also not that much talent offensively(that isn't completely overpaid) so going with cheaper guys and than trying to sign a couple of guys during free agency probably makes most sense.

BTW:
Those lists are just there to have some conversations and are certainly not accurate with the trading deadline still being there and rosters changing before the expansion draft.
Though, if you'd like to try one of your own I would really like that as there's a good chance to see where I might have gone wrong or how we could go a different direction.

 

[Mike Jones]

so 4 goalies where the 4th goalie does nothing but most play in the AHL for most of the season. And not take someone that will more or else produce well on the first line... Decisions like that is how you end up with a bad team at start. No way Seattle only takes 62m worth of cap hit...

Remember we do not have a AHL allifate until 22-23 season

Also Seattle taking oshie allow the player to be closer to family especially with his dad (has alzheimer dieases) who could no longer be with us by the time his contract ends with the capitals.

Oh and if you want a 4th goalie you draft a goalie and let them develop with their current clubs CHL goalies are allowed to be called up.

Vanecek is currently on the Caps NHL roster and has played 14 games already (.907 Save %). If he's chosen he has a shot at the no.1 job in Seattle. Again, I'd chose him before Oshie.

 

[Jdodd]

Absolutely you take Vanecek over Oshie, unless the Capitals put in sweeteners...which IMO they will. What does Oshie's dad have to do with taking him in the expansion draft? As a Penguins fan Blueger would be a great pickup for you guys...He continues to get better and better and IMO is a solid 3rd line center on any team...With that lineup above you may play him as your #2 C-man which is fine in the short term because you will be more of a defense 1st team initially anyways and he is a good 2 way C-Man...