Confirmed with Link: Evgeny Svechnikov signed to 1 year two way deal.

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't think it's going to be a major culture upheaval but it is gonna get things back to an NHL baseline imo. With all the rookies flowing through, it felt like there was no stability.

I disagree about Dahlen being one of the standout talents. I actually think a big issue for Dahlen is that he just didn't show any plus attributes at the NHL level. His playmaking didn't stand out, his IQ didn't stand out, his play driving didn't stand out. He did well at the start of the season with his willingness to make plays in the center of the ice though but that's also the time when teams are more loose in how they play.

If there's a legitimate commitment to player development then these moves will be fine regardless of my feelings about how they legitimately influence culture. I just think the culture argument is largely exaggerated. In most situations in pro sports, culture arguments boil down to being a loser compared to being a winner. Best way to manage your way into being a winner is to add talent where feasible. The Sharks still need to wait out some bad deals before adding talent can really mean something to their fortunes. Until then, develop the best you can and max out player values wherever possible.

 

[timorous me]

No but Leonard, Weatherby, Reedy, Gambrell and a bunch of other guys who had no business playing as many NHL games as they did over the last few seasons were Sharks picks.

Not sure Reedy belongs in this group. He was brought up too early but then showed signs of some real positives down the stretch. SSS, but 5g and 6a in his final 10 games while primarily in the bottom six speaks to more than just luck to me. And he plays a way that should be appealing to Grier and Quinn.

 

[Hodge]

Not sure Reedy belongs in this group. He was brought up too early but then showed signs of some real positives down the stretch. SSS, but 5g and 6a in his final 10 games while primarily in the bottom six speaks to more than just luck to me. And he plays a way that should be appealing to Grier and Quinn.

Frankly I think Reedy may have been the worst of the bunch. His underlying numbers were atrocious and the Sharks were outscored 14-8 when he was on the ice. I can't imagine he has a future in the NHL.

 

[timorous me]

Frankly I think Reedy may have been the worst of the bunch. His underlying numbers were atrocious and the Sharks were outscored 14-8 when he was on the ice. I can't imagine he has a future in the NHL.

How could they have been outscored 14-8 when he was on the ice unless he jumped off for a line change multiple times before someone scored on three of his assists in those last 10 games?

I just remember thinking that down that final stretch he looked like a different player, and while he's not someone who's going to generate that kind of scoring normally, there might be more to him than I previously thought. Some guys are going to shit the bed if called up too early and not ready. He did that, but I like that he also seemed to learn and grow from the experience.

 

[jarr92]

How could they have been outscored 14-8 when he was on the ice unless he jumped off for a line change multiple times before someone scored on three of his assists in those last 10 games?

I just remember thinking that down that final stretch he looked like a different player, and while he's not someone who's going to generate that kind of scoring normally, there might be more to him than I previously thought. Some guys are going to shit the bed if called up too early and not ready. He did that, but I like that he also seemed to learn and grow from the experience.

I agree that Reedy has NHL potential, but he is seriously so slow for a guy his size. Really the only thing holding him back, but it’s a big thing.

 

[timorous me]

I agree that Reedy has NHL potential, but he is seriously so slow for a guy his size. Really the only thing holding him back, but it’s a big thing.

This is the thread for one slow guy, so I figured I might as well make a case for another one

 

[Hodge]

How could they have been outscored 14-8 when he was on the ice unless he jumped off for a line change multiple times before someone scored on three of his assists in those last 10 games?

I just remember thinking that down that final stretch he looked like a different player, and while he's not someone who's going to generate that kind of scoring normally, there might be more to him than I previously thought. Some guys are going to shit the bed if called up too early and not ready. He did that, but I like that he also seemed to learn and grow from the experience.

I’m not sure what you mean since he only had two assists all season.

Absolute best case scenario Reedy becomes an Alex Chiasson type fourth liner who’s useless at even strength but can bang in a few net front goals on a second PP unit. He’s too slow to be an effective F1 and doesn’t play defense or the body.

 

[hohosaregood]

If there's a legitimate commitment to player development then these moves will be fine regardless of my feelings about how they legitimately influence culture. I just think the culture argument is largely exaggerated. In most situations in pro sports, culture arguments boil down to being a loser compared to being a winner. Best way to manage your way into being a winner is to add talent where feasible. The Sharks still need to wait out some bad deals before adding talent can really mean something to their fortunes. Until then, develop the best you can and max out player values wherever possible.

i don't really know why this always comes down as an argument about "the culture". maybe i'm misremembering but i don't think Grier's really talked about these moves as culture setting moves. it seems like it's just people around here attributing it as culture moves to find ways to credit/discredit his roster building choices.

 

[Mattb124]

I'd like to see more of Reedy. He scored goals at roughly ~2x the rate of Gregor and Nieto and seemed to play a translatable offensive game.

 

[Hodge]

I'd like to see more of Reedy. He scored goals at roughly ~2x the rate of Gregor and Nieto and seemed to play a translatable offensive game.

21.2% shooting seems sustainable.

 

[weastern bias]

I will agree that I don't think Scott Reedy is an NHL player

 

[themelkman]

I wouldve much rather seen Chmelevski than Reedy

 

[OrrNumber4]

I liked Reedy's game. Good hands, at least. Maybe he reminds me of Pavelski.

 

[Shark Finn]

I wish the team was better so we wouldn't have to argue about fringe players who already left the team.

 

[seroes]

I wish the team was better so we wouldn't have to argue about fringe players who already left the team.

That we are talking about it is a sign of just how horrible our prospects were. Our drafting for years really hobbled the team in terms of finding depth and when the top end talent left we were exposed. It going to take years to get out of this mess.

 

[OrrNumber4]

That we are talking about it is a sign of just how horrible our prospects were. Our drafting for years really hobbled the team in terms of finding depth and when the top end talent left we were exposed. It going to take years to get out of this mess.

The drafting isn't horrible, they've lacked the picks/have moved all their prospects. Trading Norris and Stutzle was the inflection point. Given the picks in hand, who could they have drafted that would have made a difference these last few years?

Off the top of my head:

One can make a case for Jesper Bratt and Hagel (late-round picks in 2016). Hagel would be useful going forwards (no way the Sharks have the guts/foresight to trade him to Tampa Bay) but isn't a significant pickup; would he have gotten the Balcers treatment given his defensive game? Bratt...I doubt he moves the needle very much in 2020 or 2021 (who knows how he develops on a stacked Sharks team from 2017-2019), but perhaps in 2022 his addition is sufficient to get the Sharks to a playoff spot. Certainly, I'd feel better with him in the top-6 going into the coming season (provided the Sharks could fit his contract).

Outside of that...:

I think Adam Fox was drafted after Gambrell in 2016, but he never would have signed in San Jose. I believe he was eventually traded for a pair of 2nds; not sure that would have netted anything significant.

At this point, I'd definitely prefer Miller over Merkley; maybe Sandin as well.

None of those swaps would have changed a thing about the past few years. Maybe going into next season, I'm a little more optimistic with Miller on the third-pairing...

So, even assuming perfect hindsight WRT drafting...the Sharks are only marginally better, with another top-6 forward, a solid 3rd-player with upside, and a little more security on defense.

 

[tiburon12]

I liked Reedy's game. Good hands, at least. Maybe he reminds me of Pavelski.

i got the same feeling, maybe because he scored goals from "pavelski's office" better than anyone else since Pav's left (which is sad)

 

[Gecklund]

The drafting isn't horrible, they've lacked the picks/have moved all their prospects. Trading Norris and Stutzle was the inflection point. Given the picks in hand, who could they have drafted that would have made a difference these last few years?

Off the top of my head:

One can make a case for Jesper Bratt and Hagel (late-round picks in 2016). Hagel would be useful going forwards (no way the Sharks have the guts/foresight to trade him to Tampa Bay) but isn't a significant pickup; would he have gotten the Balcers treatment given his defensive game? Bratt...I doubt he moves the needle very much in 2020 or 2021 (who knows how he develops on a stacked Sharks team from 2017-2019), but perhaps in 2022 his addition is sufficient to get the Sharks to a playoff spot. Certainly, I'd feel better with him in the top-6 going into the coming season (provided the Sharks could fit his contract).

Outside of that...:

I think Adam Fox was drafted after Gambrell in 2016, but he never would have signed in San Jose. I believe he was eventually traded for a pair of 2nds; not sure that would have netted anything significant.

At this point, I'd definitely prefer Miller over Merkley; maybe Sandin as well.

None of those swaps would have changed a thing about the past few years. Maybe going into next season, I'm a little more optimistic with Miller on the third-pairing...

So, even assuming perfect hindsight WRT drafting...the Sharks are only marginally better, with another top-6 forward, a solid 3rd-player with upside, and a little more security on defense.

I understand your point and this is not a comment towards you but related to what you’re saying. It feels weird to look at late round picks and say yep he’s definitely an improvement. If the Sharks took let’s say Bratt who knows if he would have developed the same way? I feel like as you get later in the draft it’s more about development and less about natural talent and time.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

i don't really know why this always comes down as an argument about "the culture". maybe i'm misremembering but i don't think Grier's really talked about these moves as culture setting moves. it seems like it's just people around here attributing it as culture moves to find ways to credit/discredit his roster building choices.

Probably true. The guys being brought in aren't guys that you can point to their production as a means of showing their value to the team so a lot of it is probably looking for the reasons because they aren't obvious.

 

[STL Shark]

Yep, Grier fixed everything by swapping replacement level depth pieces out for different replacement level depth pieces, the organizational turn around has been absolutely stunning

You act like there was an alternative or that the goal in all of this was to try and be some contending team this year. That's not the case. If we're 2-3 years down the road and these are still the only signings and moves being made then there's a major cause for concern. These moves are to try and instill an organizational philosophy about how to play at this level and earning the right to play at this level. These guys aren't great players, but they're about as good as you can get for the money and lack of chance to actually compete for anything remotely soon in San Jose.

 

[weastern bias]

You act like there was an alternative or that the goal in all of this was to try and be some contending team this year. That's not the case. If we're 2-3 years down the road and these are still the only signings and moves being made then there's a major cause for concern. These moves are to try and instill an organizational philosophy about how to play at this level and earning the right to play at this level. These guys aren't great players, but they're about as good as you can get for the money and lack of chance to actually compete for anything remotely soon in San Jose.

The alternative would have been to tank for the generational talent that is coming in next year's draft, this is the best year to tank since the McDavid sweepstakes and the organization decided that a better option would be to compete for the 10th seed

 

[Hodge]

The alternative would have been to tank for the generational talent that is coming in next year's draft, this is the best year to tank since the McDavid sweepstakes and the organization decided that a better option would be to compete for the 10th seed

Except that stopped being a realistic alternative the second they signed Hertl to that contract extension, as some of us were saying at the time. If Hasso had done the sensible thing with Hertl then given the new GM a mandate to immediately rebuild, Meier would have likely been out the door this summer as well and we could legitimately debate whether the Sharks are going to be worse than the Coyotes and Blackhawks this season.

That's not a debate with Hertl and Meier still on the team. It would take a catastrophic run of injuries for the Sharks to finish 30th or worse this year. Realistically the 2024-25 season is when you can expect the Sharks to truly bottom out and start contending for the first overall pick. Maybe 23-24 if Meier is traded by next offseason, Hertl starts his decline and Couture/Karlsson continue theirs.

 

[timorous me]

I’m not sure what you mean since he only had two assists all season.

Absolute best case scenario Reedy becomes an Alex Chiasson type fourth liner who’s useless at even strength but can bang in a few net front goals on a second PP unit. He’s too slow to be an effective F1 and doesn’t play defense or the body.

This is why I try to not do things on my phone.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Except that stopped being a realistic alternative the second they signed Hertl to that contract extension, as some of us were saying at the time. If Hasso had done the sensible thing with Hertl then given the new GM a mandate to immediately rebuild, Meier would have likely been out the door this summer as well and we could legitimately debate whether the Sharks are going to be worse than the Coyotes and Blackhawks this season.

That's not a debate with Hertl and Meier still on the team. It would take a catastrophic run of injuries for the Sharks to finish 30th or worse this year. Realistically the 2024-25 season is when you can expect the Sharks to truly bottom out and start contending for the first overall pick. Maybe 23-24 if Meier is traded by next offseason, Hertl starts his decline and Couture/Karlsson continue theirs.

I don't think it's unrealistic to tank with Hertl and Meier on the team but it's not worth arguing over. We're going to find out pretty quickly here. This team had Hertl and Meier on it when they finished with the 3rd overall pick that went to Ottawa. All it would take is for Meier to sag even just a little bit for the team to have significant issues up front to where they can go from the 7th and 11th overall picks they've had in the past couple seasons back down to 3rd or worse. Besides, if they finish in the bottom three where Chicago and Arizona end up worse, those are significantly better odds for them than the previous couple seasons. I'd much rather have 11.5% odds where the team with the best odds is at 18.5% than 3.5% or 6.5%. All I care about moving forward is putting themselves in the best possible position to get a foundational piece to build around for their next generation of competitive teams. That piece that they don't have now and need to get to even begin to pretend like we have a chance at competing. Until then, it's just spinning their wheels and ending up in mediocrity repeatedly.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Scott Reedy is Joe Pavelski 2.0 don't @ me