Rumor: Everything JT Miller | Elias Pettersson trade Thread

[toddkaz]

That was likely overblown, VGK would not have paid that price otherwise. Pettersson has clearly Lost a step since last year, no certainty he will gain it back. In addition, the Locker room controversy does not help.

In both cases the team selling has a weaker bargaining power.

Can you post your source that it was overblown. No hockey player has ever had the surgery before.

Can you tell me where you are getting this from?

 

[TageGod]

It's debatable when you compare it to the Tkachuk trade.

Tkachuk was a bit younger and not in the middle of a slump, but Pettersson plays the more valuable position/role as a two-way center.

Not to mention Huberdeau was a much better asset than either Byram or Cozens before he was traded as a 100+ point winger. Weegar and Huberdeau were older than the Byram and Cozens but better players and then you have the 1st + B prospect on top.

Add in Byram's concussion history and it's easy to see why the Canucks wouldn't be enamored with just Cozens and Byram for Pettersson.

If you see Pettersson as a depleted asset currently, you're entitled to your opinion, but there's no chance the Canucks are treating him like that when negotiating trades.

Byram hasn't been hurt since he came to the Sabres. Part of the value comes from age and team control. Both are still young enough to have more upside. I mean I would give you Cozens Kulich Ostlund and 2026 first if you don't want Byram.

 

[kanucks25]

Byram hasn't been hurt since he came to the Sabres. Part of the value comes from age and team control. Both are still young enough to have more upside. I mean I would give you Cozens Kulich Ostlund and 2026 first if you don't want Byram.

I'm sure the Canucks would want Byram, he'd be a perfect fit here. But just because he hasn't had a concussion in a bit doesn't erase his unfortunate concussion history.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm curious to hear from the Canuck fans a bit more. Who do you prefer to trade and is there a chance both players stay where this is just cheap talk? Seems like a lot of smoke and do Miller and Pettersson really do not like each other that well?

 

[kanucks25]

I'm curious to hear from the Canuck fans a bit more. Who do you prefer to trade and is there a chance both players stay where this is just cheap talk? Seems like a lot of smoke and do Miller and Pettersson really do not like each other that well?

Based on recent reporting it seems inevitable something big is going to happen.

A lot of Canucks fans including myself are not happy with the way Pettersson disappeared last year including the playoffs (and still not playing that great this season) but when most people are thinking logically, it's easy to come to the conclusion that Pettersson is the one to keep given his age and higher-end potential.

As for their relationship, it's clear they don't get along based on all the reports from insiders and former players but nobody really has any details.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm sure the Canucks would want Byram, he'd be a perfect fit here. But just because he hasn't had a concussion in a bit doesn't erase his unfortunate concussion history.

Would Pettersson pull off another Eichel by asking for a trade a year or two later when he has a NMC? What do the Sabres think about this? I'm pretty sure they would want to hear from Pettersson to see if he wants to be a Sabres, before they trade or pull the trigger. That Eichel situation is something I am sure they would want to avoid again.

Cozens and Byram does seem like a fair 2/1 offer.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Based on recent reporting it seems inevitable something big is going to happen.

A lot of Canucks fans including myself are not happy with the way Pettersson disappeared last year including the playoffs (and still not playing that great this season) but when most people are thinking logically, it's easy to come to the conclusion that Pettersson is the one to keep given his age and higher-end potential.

As for their relationship, it's clear they don't get along based on all the reports from insiders and former players but nobody really has any details.

From the outside looking in, I have the same thoughts. I do feel for you guys because I don't wish this on anyone.

Pettersson is very skilled but he can be a little on the soft size in the trenches when the going gets rough. Would this be Miller's beef? Not working hard enough in the playoffs? Doesn't seem like Pettersson's type so forcing it creates issues. Miller probably doesn't like how much Pettersson is paid more too? Just guessing.

Tough situation
Miller on a value contract but with a NMC
vs
Petterson on a monster contract, younger and more skilled, and a looming NMC

I'm sure the Canucks will do fine with either trade but I still wonder if they figure out a way to keep both.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

I'm curious to hear from the Canuck fans a bit more. Who do you prefer to trade and is there a chance both players stay where this is just cheap talk? Seems like a lot of smoke and do Miller and Pettersson really do not like each other that well?

As a Habs fan you are know what it's like when it comes to idiotic media and fans obsessed with drama and poor takes, I mean one of your fanside writers thinks Dach, Logan, and a 1st would be enough to get EP and many in the comments thought that was a fair deal.

I mean they might not be buddies but all this started after a nothing shoving match that was completely overblown.

After that JT took his leave and people used that as ammo. The team has been dealt blow after blow with everything going wrong from injuries to JT obviously having off ice issues, EP very clearly not a100% and playing with little confidence, guys like Soucy, Hoglander, Joshua, playing like shit and between Demko and Silovs have had two good games between them and have lost us at least 6 games. All this has created the perfect medium for the media to pull the same shit they've been doing for years.

I could go on and on about all the things they have fabricated and exaggerated with one theory being thrown around that the owner years ago banned the management from leaking any info to the media after they attacked him in several articles.

One only needs to read all the ridiculous misses or absolute silence on any contracts or trades.

I don't blame outside fanbases but nuck fans should know better than to believe anything they say. Sadly

 

[CascadiaPuck]

I'm curious to hear from the Canuck fans a bit more. Who do you prefer to trade and is there a chance both players stay where this is just cheap talk? Seems like a lot of smoke and do Miller and Pettersson really do not like each other that well?

There is a very big chance the trade talk is all hype. This management group has made trades no one saw coming and there’s been super hyped up trade talk that amounted to squat. Millers absence was most likely due to personal issues (divorce, family illness, whatever). The team is underperforming in a Canadian market - there will always be hyperbole. I’m not saying there isn’t possibly an issue between the players - and I’m picking Petey if I have to pick one to stay - but the simplest explanation is that this is massively overblown because of the slump (which is probably better attributed to ongoing injuries to key pieces).

 

[Habs Halifax]

As a Habs fan you are know

It does remind me of the PK trade rumors back when. I was in denial that it was true and bang... Weber/Subban trade announced. Habs with rumored talks with both the Canucks and Oilers on youth/futures returns that fell through.

I believe Gallagher and Patch had issues with Subban's character as well. Looks like the Habs made the right move there but took a while to come to that conclusion

There is a very big chance the trade talk is all hype. This management group has made trades no one saw coming and there’s been super hyped up trade talk that amounted to squat. Millers absence was most likely due to personal issues (divorce, family illness, whatever). The team is underperforming in a Canadian market - there will always be hyperbole. I’m not saying there isn’t possibly an issue between the players - and I’m picking Petey if I have to pick one to stay - but the simplest explanation is that this is massively overblown because of the slump (which is probably better attributed to ongoing injuries to key pieces).

Yeah, I don't believe for one bit that Miller's absence was connected to his beef with Pettersson. Just bad timing.

But I can see Miller and others putting a little heat on Pettersson and his big contract for showing up more in the trenches.

 

[Johnsie19]

No Barry Pederson was 25 years old with 116 and 107 point seasons under his belt, but about to break down due to injuries (mostly his back).

Elias, also with a 100 point season under his belt, is also 25 and possibly about to break down, albeit some of it being mentally.

Miller is more Alex Mogilny for us. Wring side of 30 but still close enough to a 100 point season where we get some value.

Mogilny turned into Brendan Morrison and another Pederson.. Dennis Pederson.

Wow Barry was before my time but I always though we just acquired him too late in his career and he fell off. Didn't realize Boston sold us damaged goods.

 

[kanucks25]

From the outside looking in, I have the same thoughts. I do feel for you guys because I don't wish this on anyone.

Pettersson is very skilled but he can be a little on the soft size in the trenches when the going gets rough. Would this be Miller's beef? Not working hard enough in the playoffs? Doesn't seem like Pettersson's type so forcing it creates issues. Miller probably doesn't like how much Pettersson is paid more too? Just guessing.

Tough situation
Miller on a value contract but with a NMC
vs
Petterson on a monster contract, younger and more skilled, and a looming NMC

I'm sure the Canucks will do fine with either trade but I still wonder if they figure out a way to keep both.

All we know is Miller "pushes" Pettersson a lot, whatever that means. It could mean that he sees higher potential in Pettersson and is upset with him that he doesn't work hard enough to achieve it. This would match up with multiple reports coming out over the past couple years that management isn't in love with how Pettersson prepares and practices.

But Miller has his own issues. Outside of last season where he was fantastic in pretty much every way, he's had a career full of poor body language, bad turnovers, lazy back-checks and lazy defence. He doesn't really have the right to call others out for not playing up to their potential.

 

[Johnsie19]

Yes I’m very aware of Peteys flash-in-the-pan 100 pt season. But I don’t think that’s the player he is, things went very right that contract season, it’s an outlier season.

Whereas I think and have always thought Eichel has always been the more complete centerman that could be a perennial 90-100 pt centerman. It’s just that nothing ever went right in Buffalo for that to happen. Now that he’s on the fully integrated on knights as the go-to guy, that is proving out. He should hit over 100 pts this season if he stays healthy for the full 82. And it’s likely that continues on during his prime years. Injuries may have stopped him from already doing it last year.

You don't seem that aware if you're calling it a flash in the pan season. He did it last yr as well for the first 50 games until something happened. Whatever it was it seems to be boiling over publicly now. But he still managed 89 points despite having probably 20 in the last 30 games.

Petey hit that 100 in his 23 yr old season. So trajectory kinda tracks. Hard to say he's more complete than Petey, whos shown borderline Selke levels. Nothing went right for Eichel, sure and nothing is going right for Petey currently. I think it's just difficult to remember how good a player is when they're struggling, especially when the player youre comparing them to is having a career yr on a great team.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I'm curious to hear from the Canuck fans a bit more. Who do you prefer to trade and is there a chance both players stay where this is just cheap talk? Seems like a lot of smoke and do Miller and Pettersson really do not like each other that well?

I think you have to do your due diligence and check the value on both players and make a judgement on whether you feel Pettersson can regain his form and be a 90+ point two-way center going forward or if you want to cash out on him now. I think they prefer to keep him over Miller all things considered. Miller’s NMC also hinders his value but he’s a declining asset that if you can get decent value out of him now, is probably the way to go the way this season is trending. The next 2-3 weeks and how this team performs with a soon to be almost fully healthy roster will determine which direction they go IMO.

 

[Johnsie19]

I'm curious to hear from the Canuck fans a bit more. Who do you prefer to trade and is there a chance both players stay where this is just cheap talk? Seems like a lot of smoke and do Miller and Pettersson really do not like each other that well?

Easily Miller. Anyone saying any different is being duped. Miller seems to play a tough as nails game at times, and hes a good player but he's almost 32 and full of worts himself. Petey when he was on his game is the better and more complete player. And he's 26. Trading that away would be a disaster. Don't see why you'd trade both, can't go rebuild with an MVP level player in Hughes on the team and a great goalie if he can get healthy.

 

[VancouverJagger]

Word on the street is that Miller came home one day and his wife was gone with the kids and thus those were the reasons for his absences. While I certainly can't verify this I doubt his absence this year had anything to do with issues with teammates.

As for his apparent beef with Pettersson there is obviously something there - most likely a clash of attitudes. Miller is a very fiery guy and likely isn't afraid to express his opinion if a teammate isn't pulling their weight or practicing the way a pro should. Petey is the exact opposite - a millenial who isn't used to being called on his shit and would rather be left alone. Does this mean they can't be teammates? Not at all..........teammates don't have to love each other.......and more than likely a lot of this is media fueled.

I'd bet my left testicle that there's little to no chance Petey gets traded and if anyone goes it will be Miller. We aren't gonna get even value back for him as he will for sure be the best player in any trade.

Even so my preference is that they find a way to work it out. Our biggest issues as of late are that our Defense is league worst without Hughes and Hronek. Everyone is clamoring for a trade but we have a top 4 RHD (Willander) ready to jump in at the end of the year - and i think once he joins and the others get healthy our team outlook is drastically different than it is currently.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Miller is a very fiery guy and likely isn't afraid to express his opinion if a teammate isn't pulling their weight or practicing the way a pro should. Petey is the exact opposite - a millenial who isn't used to being called on his shit and would rather be left alone.

I get what you’re saying here, but Miller is very much a millennial himself. They’re just from completely different backgrounds and thus have different outlooks/opinions. Miller is a very emotional guy that when things are going well, he’s great. When they aren’t, he’s a moody, grumpy asshole it seems.

 

[RationalExpectations]

No chance the locker room thing is overblown, 26 year old is clearly on the down slope. Got it.

Where do you see me saying he is on a down slope ?
As a VAN fan I agree the rumors may be overblown and have stated it before, not sure where you are getting at.
Everything discussed here is of course based on the Assomption management thinks they have to trade Pettersson due to Locker room issues, else why would they even do it ?

 

[VancouverJagger]

I get what you’re saying here, but Miller is very much a millennial himself. They’re just from completely different backgrounds and thus have different outlooks/opinions. Miller is a very emotional guy that when things are going well, he’s great. When they aren’t, he’s a moody, grumpy asshole it seems.

They are night and day difference in attitudes though.........Petey is much more introverted and likes to be left alone..........Miller isn't shy to express his opinions.......and I could see this causing a clash...........I really hope they work it out though......as overall it's gonna be tough to replace either one of them.

 

[Beerz]

And like I said, we all know he’s now shit. Pointless.

Never pointless to dog Krebs.

Word on the street is that Miller came home one day and his wife was gone with the kids and thus those were the reasons for his absences. While I certainly can't verify this I doubt his absence this year had anything to do with issues with teammates.

As for his apparent beef with Pettersson there is obviously something there - most likely a clash of attitudes. Miller is a very fiery guy and likely isn't afraid to express his opinion if a teammate isn't pulling their weight or practicing the way a pro should. Petey is the exact opposite - a millenial who isn't used to being called on his shit and would rather be left alone. Does this mean they can't be teammates? Not at all..........teammates don't have to love each other.......and more than likely a lot of this is media fueled.

I'd bet my left testicle that there's little to no chance Petey gets traded and if anyone goes it will be Miller. We aren't gonna get even value back for him as he will for sure be the best player in any trade.

Even so my preference is that they find a way to work it out. Our biggest issues as of late are that our Defense is league worst without Hughes and Hronek. Everyone is clamoring for a trade but we have a top 4 RHD (Willander) ready to jump in at the end of the year - and i think once he joins and the others get healthy our team outlook is drastically different than it is currently.

And he calling EP40 soft?

Need a month off because you got dumped?

Suck it up Miller

 

[Peter Griffin]

They are night and day difference in attitudes though.........Petey is much more introverted and likes to be left alone..........Miller isn't shy to express his opinions.......and I could see this causing a clash...........I really hope they work it out though......as overall it's gonna be tough to replace either one of them.

Oh I definitely agree they’re completely different, but they aren’t really from different generations. They’re 5.5 years apart in age.

I think with Miller, management might however be looking at that age difference, the fact that Miller appears to be trending down, the need for defensive help and saying to themselves “maybe we’re better off moving him now, hopefully picking up a defender closer in age to Hughes/Hronek/Pettersson, and utilize the remaining cap space and any additional assets to find a younger center”. Would require them to take a stepback but depending on how the next 2-3 weeks go, their playoff chances might be a lot lower.

 

[jlb124]

I can't believe the amount of noise, and trade talk around this Miller/Pettersson issue. Miller and Pettersson have both denied that this relationship is an issue. Seems it is a media creation.

 

[UrbanImpact]

my 2 cents on JT Miller from a Canuck POV

Pros:
-Elite Playmaker
-Very Good at Faceoffs
-One of the best contracts in the NHL
- Plenty of years in his prime still as he was very much under-utilized in Tbay and NYR. Body is not breaking down.
- Old School Leadership style-

Cons:
- Offensive numbers are propped up by always being deployed with Q Hughes
-Horrible PKer
- Not Great defensively and without the puck
- Tends to be a floater when he is not engaged in the game
- Perceived to have an on ice negative , sulking, tantrum attitude when things aren't going his way.

If one of them has 2 go, there is no doubt in my mind that it should be Miller. Pettersson has 1000x better skills than Miller and is obviously way younger. We may have yet to even see Pettersson's prime which is ridiculous to say given how much he has accomplished as a 26 yr old. IMO it is much much easier to replace what Miller brings to the table than finding a 2way, 100 point Franchise C like Pettersson.

I will give Miller this, his game and snarl works well for the playoffs. He also brings an intimidating Alpha presence in the dressing room which some NHL teams might be coveting.

I feel that a team will majorly majorly over-pay for Miller and will be disappointed with the on ice results unless they have their own version of Quinn Hughes. Any Pettersson trade, I feel the Canucks will regret for many many years.


As for what I'd take for Miller.....


1st, Chytil, K Miller/B Schneider

I'd be happy with that trade.

I personally dont think JT is the answer in NYR though. However a team that I think would get catapulted into Stanley Cup contention if they traded for Miller is the Carolina Hurricanes. He would change soo many things in the dynmaic of that team that just hasnt been able to get over the playoff hump. Something around Necas for Miller i think would be fair for both teams. We shall see.

 

[TageGod]

I can't believe the amount of noise, and trade talk around this Miller/Pettersson issue. Miller and Pettersson have both denied that this relationship is an issue. Seems it is a media creation.

No one is ever going to admit to that. Media is reading between the lines.

 

[FiveFourteenSixOne]

Out of curiosity, what happened to Zegras? Kid looked like he would become a ppg after his first 2 full seasons.

No he didn't. Scooping the puck up on your stick, although fun & fancy, is not a substitute for all of the tangible things he lacks in as a player.

He's literally Rob Schremp, if Schremp was a better skater.