Everyone should cheer for Team Europe @ the World Cup

[JackSlater]

Haha, unlike most people here I always thought Europe had a decent team on paper. No matter what their motivation is, it should be playing for your NATIONAL team in an INTERNATIONAL event. I don't see why you think it's so odd when I think so, when all sports in all history agrees with me. You don't mix fantasy teams with national teams...

My main problem with the gimmick teams was never motivation to begin with. They are gimmick teams no matter how they play. Just as Team Sweden would be a gimmick team if you put them in the NHL.

He's unable to answer the main point, so most of his points are just him knocking down a straw man. Whether it is an intentional strategy or an inability to follow what others say remains a mystery.

This question has been asked by multiple people, but I don't think anyone answered it yet. Anyone in favour of Team Europe and the U23 team, just for the sake of having as many big names in a tournament as possible, would you also be in favour of The Western Conference Leftover and The Eastern Conference Leftovers?

In the NHL, 7 teams from each conference makes the postseason. Then there's this extra team of leftofers, both in the West and in the East, that gets to "draft loan" players from the team missing the playoffs, as long as they're just staying within the salary cap?

It would be better cus we'd get to see players who otherwise wouldn't make it. It's not like the 8th seed teams would have a chance of winning a best of seven in the SC finals anyways.

They won't answer, since it points out the inherent stupidity of this idea. Since so many just want as many good players as possible, regardless of how the team is created, then obviously they must be in favour of such gimmicks in the NHL playoffs as well. The number of great players involved rises dramatically, and the teams unlikely to win are removed from contention. Perfect.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I bet my life you're the type of Canadian who slams the CFL and calls it garbage while adoring some NFL team from Tennessee or elsewhere.

Patriotism and "Canada or death" only seems to apply in hockey for you people. Once that's over it's back to cheering for American athletes/teams/leagues. Heh even the Raptors. It's a joke to call that team 'Canadian'.

What a strange post. I will never cheer against Team Canada and according to you this has something to do with the Raptors? Or the NFL/CFL? I don't even know WTF you're on about, you lose the bet though so if you bet your life, I guess we won't be hearing any more from you.

My answers in red:

Haha, unlike most people here I always thought Europe had a decent team on paper. No matter what their motivation is, it should be playing for your NATIONAL team in an INTERNATIONAL event. I don't see why you think it's so odd when I think so, when all sports in all history agrees with me. You don't mix fantasy teams with national teams...

My point was that these are professionals who are also competitive by nature. Anyone expecting them to give halfhearted effort as has been said by many here (not sure if it's you or not) is mistaken. I would think that Team Europe kicking the crap out of Team Sweden last night goes a long way to proving that to be true and I'm sure it came as a surprise to those people.

My main problem with the gimmick teams was never motivation to begin with. They are gimmick teams no matter how they play. Just as Team Sweden would be a gimmick team if you put them in the NHL.

This question has been asked by multiple people, but I don't think anyone answered it yet. Anyone in favour of Team Europe and the U23 team, just for the sake of having as many big names in a tournament as possible, would you also be in favour of The Western Conference Leftover and The Eastern Conference Leftovers?

In the NHL, 7 teams from each conference makes the postseason. Then there's this extra team of leftofers, both in the West and in the East, that gets to "draft loan" players from the team missing the playoffs, as long as they just stay within the salary cap?

It would be better cus we'd get to see players who otherwise wouldn't make it. It's not like the 8th seed teams would have a chance of winning a best of seven in the SC finals anyways.

Yeah yeah, more gimmick scenarios. Firstly, I've always said I would prefer no gimmick teams. Secondly, this tournament looks about 95% like what it would it would be if there were only national teams whereas some of these scenarios (including yours) take things to a whole new level. I'm sure you think you're making some point with this but you're really not. I'll try to give you an answer though - let's say the World Cup with national teams only gets 1 10 out of 10. I'd say your proposal gets a 0 out of 10 (as do most of the other "ideas" put forth and the current World Cup ... I would wait to see how it plays out before giving it a final score but I'd guess it comes in around a 7 or 8 (or to put it another way, much close to an ideal World Cup than these other ridiculous proposals).

A lot of people do seem to be happy with the gimmick teams, there's something to be said for that regardless of the fact that you and I don't and I think some people are being unduly harsh/arrogant/condescending when dumping on this tournament. Me, I'm not thrilled with the format either but I try to keep an open mind, respect other people's opinions and at least wait to see how it plays out before acting like I'm some authority who's opinion everyone else should defer to (not saying that's you).

And BTW, and 8th seed has won the Stanley Cup.

 

[Elvs]

My answers in red:

Ok, my gimmick idea gets 0/10 and the World Cup gets 1/10. But still no explanation as to why. What's really the differance between the two formats? Or why is it dumber to have a national team in the NHL than it is to have an NHL team in the World Cup? Because that's basically what these two gimmick teams are. They are more like club teams than they are national teams. You can't just invent a national team without creating a country first.

I don't mean to sound like I'm in authority. Sorry, but I struggle to keep an open mind when international events have always been about national teams. In all sports. Ever.

And the only fans who are happy with the format are North Americans. I even made a poll to find that out. It's frustrating when the NHL and seemingly a big junk of posters here only cares if this tournament is successfull in North America, and doesn't care about Europe. One person even admitted it.

Maybe it's just the name of the tournament that bugs me. Since it's called the "World Cup", I thought they were trying to make an event for the whole hockey world to like. Not just people on one continent. Maybe it's just a situation of many North Americans thinking they are "the world" (not saying you).

 

[Elvs]

long story short, the World Cup would have been a big success in North America with Slovakia and Switzerland in the tournament instead of the gimmick teams, or with just the six top nations. And it would have been a success in Europe as well. The NHL had a chance to make this big everywhere, but chose not to. Why is beyond me.

 

[Xokkeu]

Ok, my gimmick idea gets 0/10 and the World Cup gets 1/10. But still no explanation as to why. What's really the differance between the two formats? Or why is it dumber to have a national team in the NHL than it is to have an NHL team in the World Cup? Because that's basically what these two gimmick teams are. They are more like club teams than they are national teams. You can't just invent a national team without creating a country first.

I don't mean to sound like I'm in authority. Sorry, but I struggle to keep an open mind when international events have always been about national teams. In all sports. Ever.

And the only fans who are happy with the format are North Americans. I even made a poll to find that out. It's frustrating when the NHL and seemingly a big junk of posters here only cares if this tournament is successfull in North America, and doesn't care about Europe. One person even admitted it.

Maybe it's just the name of the tournament that bugs me. Since it's called the "World Cup", I thought they were trying to make an event for the whole hockey world to like. Not just people on one continent. Maybe it's just a situation of many North Americans thinking they are "the world" (not saying you).

The last line pretty much sums it up. It's a World Cup just like its a World Series

 

[Gary Nylund]

In red:

Ok, my gimmick idea gets 0/10 and the World Cup gets 1/10. But still no explanation as to why. What's really the differance between the two formats? Or why is it dumber to have a national team in the NHL than it is to have an NHL team in the World Cup? Because that's basically what these two gimmick teams are. They are more like club teams than they are national teams. You can't just invent a national team without creating a country first.

Explain? It's just obvious to me, I'm a little tired so I don't feel like searching for words to explain the obvious. Maybe someone else will. I find it hard to believe you are really struggling with this though, it sounds like you're trying to make an argument just out of principle that you don't really believe in yourself. I could be wrong but that's what it sounds like.

I don't mean to sound like I'm in authority. Sorry, but I struggle to keep an open mind when international events have always been about national teams. In all sports. Ever.

When I mentioned authority I wasn't referring to you, sorry if it sounded that way.

And the only fans who are happy with the format are North Americans. I even made a poll to find that out. It's frustrating when the NHL and seemingly a big junk of posters here only cares if this tournament is successfull in North America, and doesn't care about Europe. One person even admitted it.

Maybe it's just the name of the tournament that bugs me. Since it's called the "World Cup", I thought they were trying to make an event for the whole hockey world to like. Not just people on one continent. Maybe it's just a situation of many North Americans thinking they are "the world" (not saying you).

The NHL is a NA league, what can you do. So some people don't care about euro fans big deal. I don't see how that's any different from Euros dismissing previous Canada/World Cups as meaningless, yes I've seen many posters express that opinion. I don't like the gimmick teams in this World Cup either but previous events were awesome. I'm trying to find a balance, on one hand it seems some Euros care about the World Cup and want the problems fixed but on the other hand, others just say bah World Cup, who cares. It's hard to generalize, the first group I sympathize with, the 2nd ... well, let's just say their opinion doesn't matter to me. If you never cared about the event to begin with, why should I care about their criticism?

 

[Elvs]

Explain? It's just obvious to me, I'm a little tired so I don't feel like searching for words to explain the obvious. Maybe someone else will. I find it hard to believe you are really struggling with this though, it sounds like you're trying to make an argument just out of principle that you don't really believe in yourself. I could be wrong but that's what it sounds like.

Let me put it this way. I see three different arguments for the gimmick teams (not from you, but among its defenders in general).

Argument #1: Better players = better teams = better tournament. The only thing that matters here is throwing in as many big names as possible. And in that sense, I don't see any differance at all between the gimmick situation I created, and the current one going on in the World Cup.

Argument #2: Switzerland and Slovakia can't compete, and thus it's better to have the gimmick teams. However, results since 2010 shows they can compete, by putting up close games most of the time against the top six nations while also winning or forcing OT/SO quite often. They wouldn't be far behind the Czechs on paper. And from their own readline and back, they wouldn't even be far behind Finland or Russia.

What makes it even more frustrating, is that some of the same people want the Czechs excluded. Because they are too bad on paper, even if they beat the Russians and just fell short with one goal a couple of days earlier. Now, hopefully the Czechs win over the U23 team made people realize games aren't won on paper.

Argument #3: North Americans don't want to see players they don't recognize. This is the one I find to be the most true. It explains why they are against Slovakia/Switzerland despite what the on ice results say, and it explains why people want the Czechs gone as well.

It's unfortunate imo. If these two nations were given a chance, a couple of their Euroleague based players such as Denis Hollenstein or Marek Viedensky might actually have a good tournament on the smaller ice and against top competition. That way they could earn their way into the NHL, where they would continue to develop and help making their countries stronger.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Let me put it this way. I see three different arguments for the gimmick teams (not from you, but among its defenders in general).

Argument #1: Better players = better teams = better tournament. The only thing that matters here is throwing in as many big names as possible. And in that sense, I don't see any differance at all between the gimmick situation I created, and the current one going on in the World Cup.

Argument #2: Switzerland and Slovakia can't compete, and thus it's better to have the gimmick teams. However, results since 2010 shows they can compete, by putting up close games most of the time against the top six nations while also winning or forcing OT/SO quite often. They wouldn't be far behind the Czechs on paper. And from their own readline and back, they wouldn't even be far behind Finland or Russia.

What makes it even more frustrating, is that some of the same people want the Czechs excluded. Because they are too bad on paper, even if they beat the Russians and just fell short with one goal a couple of days earlier. Now, hopefully the Czechs win over the U23 team made people realize games aren't won on paper.

Argument #3: North Americans don't want to see players they don't recognize. This is the one I find to be the most true. It explains why they are against Slovakia/Switzerland despite what the on ice results say, and it explains why people want the Czechs gone as well.

It's unfortunate imo. If these two nations were given a chance, a couple of their Euroleague based players such as Denis Hollenstein or Marek Viedensky might actually have a good tournament on the smaller ice and against top competition. That way they could earn their way into the NHL, where they would continue to develop and help making their countries stronger.

Fair enough. I especially am at odds with #3, I would find it interesting to see new players.

 

[freddiebearhockey]

Que the NHL dropping out of the Olympics anyway and we have no interesting international tournaments hahah

I agree the NHL has most of the top players and that its the best league in the world! World cup of hockey is attractive for North American fans. Fair enough! However the last 10 years European leagues and iihf worlds have taken a lot of steps. Worse teams are getting better results, top teams are not as dominating as they used to be. I believe its important to get a new champion if world hockey wants to evolve and compete with other sports like soccer! Its sad if the olympic traditions die! My big dream is to see a new upcomming nation! After seeing Germany getting 4th in 2010 WC, Switzerland getting silver in the 2013 WC, i believe its possible! Latvia only loosing 2-1 to Canada in Sochi olympics quarterfinal and Slovenia (who only has 150 male hockeyplayers) qualified for the second olympics! Norway just qualified for the 3rd straight time! Denmarks has way more NHL and KHL talent, but they managed to loose to Slovenia and Belarus! European hockey is upcomming and i hope world cup of hockey doesnt ruin that!

 

[Confucius]

I can see the possibility that this tournament evolves into an under 23 tourney and it becomes a 4 out of seven format. With only 2 teams involved. Team Europe and Team North America.

 

[Canuck21t]

The best way for this ridiculous gimmick tournament to be the last one is if Team Europe wins the ugly trophy. I'm hoping for this.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

long story short, the World Cup would have been a big success in North America with Slovakia and Switzerland in the tournament instead of the gimmick teams, or with just the six top nations. And it would have been a success in Europe as well. The NHL had a chance to make this big everywhere, but chose not to. Why is beyond me.

The #1 reason is that there are only 6 countries with around enough players in the nhl to form a complete roster. As it is Finland, Russia and the Czech Republic have a handful of players from European leagues playing. Slovakia and Switzerland have fewer than 10 players each in the nhl.