Even-strength VsX

[Overrated]

Clarke won 3 Hart trophies. Some against Orr.

Dionme has more point finishes than any of the players you listed from the 90s.

I'd say that's some pretty stiff competition.

They gave him the Harts and maybe he was the most "valuable" player but he was never even close to Orr. Clarke also scored 4 goals in 28 international games (and 8 assists). Dionne was also never a top5 forward in the world and his international resume shows it. He took part in many international competitions and there is absolutely no reason to believe he was ever better than any of the best three Soviet players at any point in his career. He was also never better than prime Esposito, Lafleur or Bossy so he has never even breached not even for one year in his career the top5 forward in the world.

 

[daver]

Combination of Hart trophies (only one), low point totals, lack of dominance by overlapping players outside of Jagr's peak years all lend to the conclusion that his competition wasn't particularly noteworthy.

Can you name the players who qualify as "overlapping" and what you mean by "dominance". Or more specifically, why do you think "the field" got weaker starting in 1994/95?

 

[Pominville Knows]

Can you name the players who qualify as "overlapping" and what you mean by "dominance". Or more specifically, why do you think "the field" got weaker starting in 1994/95?

Is it true that top players were more injured post-95 til the Lost Season?

 

[daver]

Is it true that top players were more injured post-95 til the Lost Season?

Sure, that has been established. But that's not the argument, the argument is that regardless of full seasons being played or not, the competitive field was notably weak.

 

[ImporterExporter]

As requested for the ATD, here's even-strength VsX. I'm posting this here (rather than the ATD forum) as I'm sure there are undrafteds included here.

Disclaimers:

• All the ES numbers were taken from Overpass's spreadsheet, and the yearly benchmarks were taken from Sprague Cleghorn's post. I haven't attempted to confirm/verify any of their information.
• The data only goes back to 1960.
• Each year is normalized to 70.

Results - top 300 ES VsX (1960-2017) - best seven years

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]GRETZKY, WAYNE[/TD]
[TD] 111[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]JAGR, JAROMIR[/TD]
[TD] 81[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]ESPOSITO, PHIL[/TD]
[TD] 75[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]LEMIEUX, MARIO[/TD]
[TD] 74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]HULL, BOBBY[/TD]
[TD] 74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]LAFLEUR, GUY[/TD]
[TD] 72[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]MIKITA, STAN[/TD]
[TD] 71[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]CROSBY, SIDNEY[/TD]
[TD] 70[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]YZERMAN, STEVE[/TD]
[TD] 68[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]THORNTON, JOE[/TD]
[TD] 68[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]BOSSY, MIKE[/TD]
[TD] 67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]OVECHKIN, ALEX[/TD]
[TD] 67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]SAKIC, JOE[/TD]
[TD] 66[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]DIONNE, MARCEL[/TD]
[TD] 66[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]KURRI, JARI[/TD]
[TD] 66[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]ULLMAN, NORM[/TD]
[TD] 66[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]RICHARD, HENRI[/TD]
[TD] 65[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]LINDROS, ERIC[/TD]
[TD] 65[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]RATELLE, JEAN[/TD]
[TD] 65[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]IGINLA, JAROME[/TD]
[TD] 65[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]ST. LOUIS, MARTIN[/TD]
[TD] 64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]HOWE, GORDIE[/TD]
[TD] 64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]KANE, PATRICK[/TD]
[TD] 64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]ORR, BOBBY[/TD]
[TD] 64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]TROTTIER, BRYAN[/TD]
[TD] 64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]MAHOVLICH, FRANK[/TD]
[TD] 64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]LECLAIR, JOHN[/TD]
[TD] 64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]BATHGATE, ANDY[/TD]
[TD] 64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]SELANNE, TEEMU[/TD]
[TD] 63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]MALKIN, EVGENI[/TD]
[TD] 63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]ROBITAILLE, LUC[/TD]
[TD] 63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]SEDIN, HENRIK[/TD]
[TD] 63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]33[/TD]
[TD]OATES, ADAM[/TD]
[TD] 62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]MESSIER, MARK[/TD]
[TD] 62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]STASTNY, PETER[/TD]
[TD] 62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]RECCHI, MARK[/TD]
[TD] 61[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]HULL, BRETT[/TD]
[TD] 61[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]38[/TD]
[TD]BUCYK, JOHNNY[/TD]
[TD] 60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]39[/TD]
[TD]SUNDIN, MATS[/TD]
[TD] 60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]BELIVEAU, JEAN[/TD]
[TD] 60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]BURE, PAVEL[/TD]
[TD] 59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]FORSBERG, PETER[/TD]
[TD] 59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]SEDIN, DANIEL[/TD]
[TD] 59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]GETZLAF, RYAN[/TD]
[TD] 59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]TANGUAY, ALEX[/TD]
[TD] 58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]46[/TD]
[TD]HODGE, KEN[/TD]
[TD] 58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]47[/TD]
[TD]CLARKE, BOBBY[/TD]
[TD] 58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]GILBERT, ROD[/TD]
[TD] 58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]49[/TD]
[TD]HEATLEY, DANY[/TD]
[TD] 58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]HAWERCHUK, DALE[/TD]
[TD] 58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]51[/TD]
[TD]MODANO, MIKE[/TD]
[TD] 58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]52[/TD]
[TD]FRANCIS, RON[/TD]
[TD] 58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD]DELVECCHIO, ALEX[/TD]
[TD] 57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]54[/TD]
[TD]FLEURY, THEOREN[/TD]
[TD] 57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]55[/TD]
[TD]FEDOROV, SERGEI[/TD]
[TD] 57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]56[/TD]
[TD]STAMKOS, STEVEN[/TD]
[TD] 57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]57[/TD]
[TD]GILMOUR, DOUG[/TD]
[TD] 57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]58[/TD]
[TD]SAVARD, DENIS[/TD]
[TD] 57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]59[/TD]
[TD]DATSYUK, PAVEL[/TD]
[TD] 57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]60[/TD]
[TD]TURGEON, PIERRE[/TD]
[TD] 57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]61[/TD]
[TD]SITTLER, DARRYL[/TD]
[TD] 57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]62[/TD]
[TD]STAAL, ERIC[/TD]
[TD] 57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]63[/TD]
[TD]KOVALCHUK, ILYA[/TD]
[TD] 57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]64[/TD]
[TD]GOULET, MICHEL[/TD]
[TD] 56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]65[/TD]
[TD]SHUTT, STEVE[/TD]
[TD] 56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]66[/TD]
[TD]SPEZZA, JASON[/TD]
[TD] 56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]67[/TD]
[TD]WHEELER, BLAKE[/TD]
[TD] 56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]68[/TD]
[TD]ELIAS, PATRIK[/TD]
[TD] 56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]69[/TD]
[TD]PERREAULT, GILBERT[/TD]
[TD] 56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]70[/TD]
[TD]PERRY, COREY[/TD]
[TD] 56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]71[/TD]
[TD]COFFEY, PAUL[/TD]
[TD] 56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]72[/TD]
[TD]BENN, JAMIE[/TD]
[TD] 56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]73[/TD]
[TD]TAVARES, JOHN[/TD]
[TD] 55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]74[/TD]
[TD]ANDERSON, GLENN[/TD]
[TD] 55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]75[/TD]
[TD]ROENICK, JEREMY[/TD]
[TD] 55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]76[/TD]
[TD]LECAVALIER, VINCENT[/TD]
[TD] 55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]77[/TD]
[TD]ZETTERBERG, HENRIK[/TD]
[TD] 55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]78[/TD]
[TD]KARIYA, PAUL[/TD]
[TD] 55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]79[/TD]
[TD]MOGILNY, ALEXANDER[/TD]
[TD] 55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]LEMAIRE, JACQUES[/TD]
[TD] 55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]81[/TD]
[TD]ALFREDSSON, DANIEL[/TD]
[TD] 55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]TOEWS, JONATHAN[/TD]
[TD] 54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]83[/TD]
[TD]AMONTE, TONY[/TD]
[TD] 54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]84[/TD]
[TD]KESSEL, PHIL[/TD]
[TD] 54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]85[/TD]
[TD]HOSSA, MARIAN[/TD]
[TD] 54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]86[/TD]
[TD]RIBEIRO, MIKE[/TD]
[TD] 54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]87[/TD]
[TD]MULLEN, JOE[/TD]
[TD] 54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]88[/TD]
[TD]TKACHUK, KEITH[/TD]
[TD] 54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]89[/TD]
[TD]BACKSTROM, NICKLAS[/TD]
[TD] 54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]90[/TD]
[TD]DEMITRA, PAVOL[/TD]
[TD] 53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]91[/TD]
[TD]NICHOLLS, BERNIE[/TD]
[TD] 53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]92[/TD]
[TD]LaFONTAINE, PAT[/TD]
[TD] 53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]93[/TD]
[TD]CICCARELLI, DINO[/TD]
[TD] 53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]94[/TD]
[TD]NASH, RICK[/TD]
[TD] 53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]95[/TD]
[TD]KOPITAR, ANZE[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]96[/TD]
[TD]NASLUND, MARKUS[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]97[/TD]
[TD]PROVOST, CLAUDE[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]98[/TD]
[TD]BACKSTROM, RALPH[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]99[/TD]
[TD]KREJCI, DAVID[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]PARISE, ZACH[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]101[/TD]
[TD]DAMPHOUSSE, VINCENT[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]102[/TD]
[TD]FEDERKO, BERNIE[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]103[/TD]
[TD]PROSPAL, VACLAV[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]104[/TD]
[TD]SHANAHAN, BRENDAN[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]105[/TD]
[TD]GABORIK, MARIAN[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]106[/TD]
[TD]HEJDUK, MILAN[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]107[/TD]
[TD]WHARRAM, KENNY[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]108[/TD]
[TD]RICHER, STEPHANE[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]109[/TD]
[TD]ROBERTS, GARY[/TD]
[TD] 52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]110[/TD]
[TD]YASHIN, ALEXEI[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]111[/TD]
[TD]PRENTICE, DEAN[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]112[/TD]
[TD]OLIVER, MURRAY[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]113[/TD]
[TD]KEON, DAVE[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]114[/TD]
[TD]RICHARDS, BRAD[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]115[/TD]
[TD]WHITNEY, RAY[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]116[/TD]
[TD]GOMEZ, SCOTT[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]117[/TD]
[TD]MURRAY, GLEN[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]118[/TD]
[TD]CASHMAN, WAYNE[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]119[/TD]
[TD]GOYETTE, PHIL[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]120[/TD]
[TD]GARTNER, MIKE[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]121[/TD]
[TD]MARCHAND, BRAD[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]122[/TD]
[TD]SEGUIN, TYLER[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]123[/TD]
[TD]STRAKA, MARTIN[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]124[/TD]
[TD]NYLANDER, MICHAEL[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]125[/TD]
[TD]CARTER, JEFF[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]126[/TD]
[TD]MARUK, DENNIS[/TD]
[TD] 51[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]127[/TD]
[TD]PALFFY, ZIGMUND[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]128[/TD]
[TD]MARTIN, PIT[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]129[/TD]
[TD]BERTUZZI, TODD[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]130[/TD]
[TD]DUCHENE, MATT[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]131[/TD]
[TD]ERIKSSON, LOUI[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]132[/TD]
[TD]MAHOVLICH, PETE[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]133[/TD]
[TD]MCNAB, PETER[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]134[/TD]
[TD]SMITH, BOBBY[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]135[/TD]
[TD]THOMAS, STEVE[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]136[/TD]
[TD]ROUSSEAU, BOBBY[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]137[/TD]
[TD]POMINVILLE, JASON[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]138[/TD]
[TD]VANEK, THOMAS[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]139[/TD]
[TD]BRIND'AMOUR, ROD[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]140[/TD]
[TD]MIDDLETON, RICK[/TD]
[TD] 50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]141[/TD]
[TD]HALL, TAYLOR[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]142[/TD]
[TD]TAYLOR, DAVE[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]143[/TD]
[TD]PACIORETTY, MAX[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]144[/TD]
[TD]SULLIVAN, STEVE[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]145[/TD]
[TD]BONDRA, PETER[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]146[/TD]
[TD]NIEUWENDYK, JOE[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]147[/TD]
[TD]MARLEAU, PATRICK[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]148[/TD]
[TD]LUCIC, MILAN[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]149[/TD]
[TD]NEDVED, PETR[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]150[/TD]
[TD]BERGERON, PATRICE[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]151[/TD]
[TD]RYAN, BOBBY[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]152[/TD]
[TD]LADD, ANDREW[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]153[/TD]
[TD]PULFORD, BOB[/TD]
[TD] 49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]154[/TD]
[TD]FERRARO, RAY[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]155[/TD]
[TD]MCDONALD, LANNY[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]156[/TD]
[TD]SAVARD, MARC[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]157[/TD]
[TD]APPS, SYL[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]158[/TD]
[TD]ARNOTT, JASON[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]159[/TD]
[TD]TKACZUK, WALT[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]160[/TD]
[TD]LARMER, STEVE[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]161[/TD]
[TD]NEELY, CAM[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]162[/TD]
[TD]HULL, DENNIS[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]163[/TD]
[TD]GUERIN, BILL[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]164[/TD]
[TD]TONELLI, JOHN[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]165[/TD]
[TD]LAROUCHE, PIERRE[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]166[/TD]
[TD]PRIMEAU, KEITH[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]167[/TD]
[TD]WEIGHT, DOUG[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]168[/TD]
[TD]NEVIN, BOB[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]169[/TD]
[TD]COURTNALL, GEOFF[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]170[/TD]
[TD]STUMPEL, JOZEF[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]171[/TD]
[TD]BRIERE, DANNY[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]172[/TD]
[TD]GIROUX, CLAUDE[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]173[/TD]
[TD]STEVENS, KEVIN[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]174[/TD]
[TD]HAVLAT, MARTIN[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]175[/TD]
[TD]COURNOYER, YVAN[/TD]
[TD] 48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]176[/TD]
[TD]KOVALEV, ALEXEI[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]177[/TD]
[TD]SYKORA, PETR[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]178[/TD]
[TD]WILLIAMS, JUSTIN[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]179[/TD]
[TD]TOCCHET, RICK[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]180[/TD]
[TD]MULLER, KIRK[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]181[/TD]
[TD]KUNITZ, CHRIS[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]182[/TD]
[TD]PAVELSKI, JOE[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]183[/TD]
[TD]SANDSTROM, TOMAS[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]184[/TD]
[TD]EBERLE, JORDAN[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]185[/TD]
[TD]JOKINEN, OLLI[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]186[/TD]
[TD]MARTIN, RICK[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]187[/TD]
[TD]PROPP, BRIAN[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]188[/TD]
[TD]DOAN, SHANE[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]189[/TD]
[TD]SEMIN, ALEXANDER[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]190[/TD]
[TD]STASTNY, PAUL[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]191[/TD]
[TD]JANNEY, CRAIG[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]192[/TD]
[TD]GAGNE, SIMON[/TD]
[TD] 47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]193[/TD]
[TD]KELLY, RED[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]194[/TD]
[TD]MACLEISH, RICK[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]195[/TD]
[TD]COURTNALL, RUSS[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]196[/TD]
[TD]UNGER, GARRY[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]197[/TD]
[TD]SATAN, MIROSLAV[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]198[/TD]
[TD]SHARP, PATRICK[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]199[/TD]
[TD]VERBEEK, PAT[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]200[/TD]
[TD]STILLMAN, CORY[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]201[/TD]
[TD]HEXTALL, DENNIS[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]202[/TD]
[TD]GARE, DANNY[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]203[/TD]
[TD]HUNTER, DALE[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]204[/TD]
[TD]ANDREYCHUK, DAVE[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]205[/TD]
[TD]ZHAMNOV, ALEXEI[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]206[/TD]
[TD]LANG, ROBERT[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]207[/TD]
[TD]MACLEAN, JOHN[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]208[/TD]
[TD]HAY, BILL[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]209[/TD]
[TD]LYSIAK, TOM[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]210[/TD]
[TD]RENBERG, MIKAEL[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]211[/TD]
[TD]SMYTH, RYAN[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]212[/TD]
[TD]VORACEK, JAKUB[/TD]
[TD] 46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]213[/TD]
[TD]HARTNELL, SCOTT[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]214[/TD]
[TD]BROTEN, NEAL[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]215[/TD]
[TD]NASLUND, MATS[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]216[/TD]
[TD]HOLIK, BOBBY[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]217[/TD]
[TD]OLCZYK, ED[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]218[/TD]
[TD]PAPPIN, JIM[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]219[/TD]
[TD]RIDLEY, MIKE[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]220[/TD]
[TD]LINSEMAN, KEN[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]221[/TD]
[TD]KOZLOV, VYACHESLAV[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]222[/TD]
[TD]LUCE, DON[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]223[/TD]
[TD]LANGKOW, DAYMOND[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]224[/TD]
[TD]ROBERT, RENE[/TD]
[TD] 45[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]225[/TD]
[TD]DUMONT, J.P.[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]226[/TD]
[TD]CONROY, CRAIG[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]227[/TD]
[TD]HADFIELD, VIC[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]228[/TD]
[TD]MACLEAN, PAUL[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]229[/TD]
[TD]STASTNY, ANTON[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]230[/TD]
[TD]BACKES, DAVID[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]231[/TD]
[TD]BOURQUE, RAY[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]232[/TD]
[TD]NOLAN, OWEN[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]233[/TD]
[TD]COLE, ERIK[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]234[/TD]
[TD]KEHOE, RICK[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]235[/TD]
[TD]PRONOVOST, JEAN[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]236[/TD]
[TD]STEMKOWSKI, PETE[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]237[/TD]
[TD]PARISE, JEAN-PAUL[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]238[/TD]
[TD]BOLDIREV, IVAN[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]239[/TD]
[TD]HORTON, NATHAN[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]240[/TD]
[TD]REICHEL, ROBERT[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]241[/TD]
[TD]SHEPPARD, RAY[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]242[/TD]
[TD]RAMSAY, CRAIG[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]243[/TD]
[TD]O'REILLY, TERRY[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]244[/TD]
[TD]NEAL, JAMES[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]245[/TD]
[TD]BURROWS, ALEXANDRE[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]246[/TD]
[TD]WILLIAMS, TOMMY[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]247[/TD]
[TD]GOLDSWORTHY, BILL[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]248[/TD]
[TD]BELLOWS, BRIAN[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]249[/TD]
[TD]MORRISON, BRENDAN[/TD]
[TD] 44[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]250[/TD]
[TD]PAIEMENT, WILF[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]251[/TD]
[TD]OGRODNICK, JOHN[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]252[/TD]
[TD]SIMMER, CHARLIE[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]253[/TD]
[TD]KARLSSON, ERIK[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]254[/TD]
[TD]BOYES, BRAD[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]255[/TD]
[TD]BLAKE, JASON[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]256[/TD]
[TD]MCEACHERN, SHAWN[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]257[/TD]
[TD]STEPAN, DEREK[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]258[/TD]
[TD]MACMILLAN, BOB[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]259[/TD]
[TD]KHRISTICH, DMITRI[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]260[/TD]
[TD]RONNING, CLIFF[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]261[/TD]
[TD]MORROW, BRENDEN[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]262[/TD]
[TD]ROY, DEREK[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]263[/TD]
[TD]HUDLER, JIRI[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]264[/TD]
[TD]BARBER, BILL[/TD]
[TD] 43[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]265[/TD]
[TD]VAIVE, RICK[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]266[/TD]
[TD]ELLIS, RON[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]267[/TD]
[TD]BALON, DAVE[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]268[/TD]
[TD]SAMSONOV, SERGEI[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]269[/TD]
[TD]CULLEN, JOHN[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]270[/TD]
[TD]BULLARD, MIKE[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]271[/TD]
[TD]ARMSTRONG, GEORGE[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]272[/TD]
[TD]FOLIGNO, MIKE[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]273[/TD]
[TD]BRUNETTE, ANDREW[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]274[/TD]
[TD]VICKERS, STEVE[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]275[/TD]
[TD]NILSSON, KENT[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]276[/TD]
[TD]POULIN, DAVE[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]277[/TD]
[TD]STANFIELD, FRED[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]278[/TD]
[TD]PEDERSON, BARRY[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]279[/TD]
[TD]CRAVEN, MURRAY[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]280[/TD]
[TD]FOX, JIM[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]281[/TD]
[TD]KERR, TIM[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]282[/TD]
[TD]PLEKANEC, TOMAS[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]283[/TD]
[TD]LEMIEUX, CLAUDE[/TD]
[TD] 42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]284[/TD]
[TD]TREMBLAY, MARIO[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]285[/TD]
[TD]TIKKANEN, ESA[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]286[/TD]
[TD]GILLIES, CLARK[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]287[/TD]
[TD]KESLER, RYAN[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]288[/TD]
[TD]DUPUIS, PASCAL[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]289[/TD]
[TD]BERENSON, RED[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]290[/TD]
[TD]LEACH, REGGIE[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]291[/TD]
[TD]ERAT, MARTIN[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]292[/TD]
[TD]COUTURE, LOGAN[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]293[/TD]
[TD]KOIVU, MIKKO[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]294[/TD]
[TD]STEEN, THOMAS[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]295[/TD]
[TD]GELINAS, MARTIN[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]296[/TD]
[TD]KRUSHELNYSKI, MIKE[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]297[/TD]
[TD]BOUDRIAS, ANDRE[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]298[/TD]
[TD]LANGENBRUNNER, JAMIE[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]299[/TD]
[TD]FILPPULA, VALTTERI[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]300[/TD]
[TD]LITTLE, BRYAN[/TD]
[TD] 41[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Gretzky is off the charts (even more dominant when looking just as ES, compared to looking at total offense).

Defensemen look much worse compared to the overall VsX summary. Coffey, Bourque and Karlsson are the only blueliners in the top 300. Most (all?) of Kelly's time from 1960 onwards was as a forward.

Henri Richard looks superb according to this metric (perhaps the strongest proof of his excellent ES scoring and limited powerplay time?) Joe Thornton also looks better than I thought.

Hall of Famer Dave Andreychuk is out of the 200, behind luminaries like Garry Unger, Miro Satan and Dennis Hextall.

HO, do you happen to have updated #'s for ES scoring? Just wondering where some of the active guys like McDavid and Kucherov would stand.

Thanks!

 

[Hockey Outsider]

HO, do you happen to have updated #'s for ES scoring? Just wondering where some of the active guys like McDavid and Kucherov would stand.

Thanks!

Unfortuantely I haven't been updating this because the data's in a different format, and it's a huge pain to try to consolidate all the information.

A quick calculation for McDavid:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]McDavid[/TD]
[TD]Benchmark[/TD]
[TD]Result[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2017​

[/TD]

[TD]

71​

[/TD]

[TD]

66​

[/TD]

[TD]75[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2018​

[/TD]

[TD]

84​

[/TD]

[TD]

64​

[/TD]

[TD]92[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2019​

[/TD]

[TD]

81​

[/TD]

[TD]

80​

[/TD]

[TD]71[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2020​

[/TD]

[TD]

54​

[/TD]

[TD]

66​

[/TD]

[TD]57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2021​

[/TD]

[TD]

68​

[/TD]

[TD]

51​

[/TD]

[TD]93[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2022​

[/TD]

[TD]

78​

[/TD]

[TD]

77​

[/TD]

[TD]71[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2023​

[/TD]

[TD]

43​

[/TD]

[TD]

43​

[/TD]

[TD]70[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) the benchmark is 2nd place for 2017, 2019, 2020, and 2023 (so far), and 3rd place for 2018, 2021, and 2022. Your call on how to treat the currently-in-progress 2023 season. If we assume McDavid ends up roughly where he's currently at, his seven year ES VsX is 76 - higher than anyone from 1960-today except for Gretzky and Esposito.

And a quick calculation for Kucherov:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]Kucherov[/TD]
[TD]Benchmark[/TD]
[TD]Result[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2015​

[/TD]

[TD]

50​

[/TD]

[TD]

59​

[/TD]

[TD]59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2016​

[/TD]

[TD]

41​

[/TD]

[TD]

59​

[/TD]

[TD]49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2017​

[/TD]

[TD]

53​

[/TD]

[TD]

66​

[/TD]

[TD]56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2018​

[/TD]

[TD]

64​

[/TD]

[TD]

64​

[/TD]

[TD]70[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2019​

[/TD]

[TD]

80​

[/TD]

[TD]

80​

[/TD]

[TD]70[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2020​

[/TD]

[TD]

60​

[/TD]

[TD]

66​

[/TD]

[TD]64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2023​

[/TD]

[TD]

42​

[/TD]

[TD]

43​

[/TD]

[TD]68[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Taking 2023 as is, he ends up with 62 - right around the level of Selanne, Malkin, Messier, Stastny, and Beliveau. Last season was actually on pace to be his best but he missed almost half the year.

It's late and I'm tired, so if anyone sees any errors, let me know.