Player Discussion Evander Kane

[bucks_oil]

In scenario three before they put him on LTIR they would add someone to get the cap hit as close to the ceiling as they could. They have a roster spot so they could add Savoie on a paper transaction and that would take them to within 100K of the ceiling, Then if they put Kane on LTIR they have the option of adding a 23 roster spot using LTIR, or they could send Savoie back down and they would still have almost the full $945K to accrue.

True, but the only benefit would be to maximize the allowed overage, correct?

Meaning, they add Savoie to eat up the $945K... then they LTIR Kane to get the full $5.1M, then if they send Savoie back down can they effectively spend ~$6M on a player to take his place?

Or is that not allowed... since as soon as they send down Savoie, they only need $4.155 to "replace" Kane... so really the only benefit in calling up Savoie is to max the number of available players on the roster?

Either way, they don't still "accrue" money while in LTIR... you just mean that they should do a paper transaction to make sure their overage is the full $5.1M above the cap rather than $5.1 - 945K = $4.155, and they have as many players on roster as possible, correct?

Anyway. that would be some nifty maneuvering, but not necessary in my ideal scenario, since I'm already spending the full accrued $$$ under #2 below.
1) Keep Kane on IR to accrue the $945K until say early Feb, means ~$4M in spending power a few weeks ahead of deadline.
2) Make a trade for net $4M salary coming in.
3) Check in with doctors on Kane, oh gee, he's not ready until playoffs?... LTIR for the full $5.1 replacement value.
4) Make a 2nd trade at the deadline for a ~$5M player

 

[bobbythebrain]

You know what I guess you're right, It's not like a ref openly stated the league wanted game management in that way, then 6 years later got caught on a hot mic doing it a month before he was due to retire.....

Haha. Got caught admitting to keeping games close. By no stretch did that mean throwing games to Anerican teams.

Nice try tho

 

[Fourier]

True, but the only benefit would be to maximize the allowed overage, correct?

Meaning, they add Savoie to eat up the $945K... then they LTIR Kane to get the full $5.1M, then if they send Savoie back down can they effectively spend ~$6M on a player to take his place?

Or is that not allowed... since as soon as they send down Savoie, they only need $4.155 to "replace" Kane... so really the only benefit in calling up Savoie is to max the number of available players on the roster?

Either way, they don't still "accrue" money while in LTIR... you just mean that they should do a paper transaction to make sure their overage is the full $5.1M above the cap rather than $5.1 - 945K = $4.155, and they have as many players on roster as possible, correct?

Anyway. that would be some nifty maneuvering, but not necessary in my ideal scenario, since I'm already spending the full accrued $$$ under #2 below.
1) Keep Kane on IR to accrue the $945K until say early Feb, means ~$4M in spending power a few weeks ahead of deadline.
2) Make a trade for net $4M salary coming in.
3) Check in with doctors on Kane, oh gee, he's not ready until playoffs?... LTIR for the full $5.1 replacement value.
4) Make a 2nd trade at the deadline for a ~$5M player

This is a little technical. Assume that the Oilers have a few injuries short term and they don't want to play short handed. They could add Savoie and then LTIR Kane before bring up anyone. Adding Savoie sets the team's new upper limit for the cap at the point Kane is placed on LTIR. They can then exceed this new upper limit by Kane's full cap hit. Once the short term injuries are over though they can drop back below the upper limit with Kane still on LTIR and still accrue cap space.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

That's not Bettman's fault, what more is he supposed to do? Give the Oilers the Matthews no.1 overall pick the following year too? 5 1st overall picks might do it? We got gift wrapped Tkachuk that draft too, lol.

And yes, Canadian management by and large has sucked the past three decades. Vancouver's management team that built their 2011 team is probably the last one that was really on the ball.

You are overlooking the fact that the circumstances of certain markets can greatly affect managements ability to be as effective as possible. Its a fact that some markets are more desirable then others and because of that some teams have an advantage of always being at the top of the list for free agents and less likely to be on no trade lists. Certain markets have tax advantages that allow them to negotiate more team friendly deals so they’re less likely to have to overpay to land or keep talent. Players are also more likely to make concessions on things like ntc/nmc to land where they want to be. Then there are considerations like anonymity which isnt a thing for big players in Canadian markets. In a league where parity is a high priority, all these little advantages can add up.

Do you think Bill Zito would be able to be as effective in Winnipeg as he is in Florida?

 

[North]

Lmao. Bettman costs himself infinite revenue by allowing McD to goto Edm. Then he spends years sabotaging them till he hopes McD goes to an American market!!!!

Are ppl truly that daft?? @North ? Care to elaborate on how this works exactly?

So for 20 years Bettman has been able to manipulate Playoffs/SCF but has been unable to manipulate drafts? Like use a spec of common sense.....puleasssee

Did I say any of that?

You’re on some sort of tangent because you want to protect your dear precious Bettman.

Not sure why you worked yourself up to this level but keep shaking your fists at clouds.

 

[bucks_oil]

This is a little technical. Assume that the Oilers have a few injuries short term and they don't want to play short handed. They could add Savoie and then LTIR Kane before bring up anyone. Adding Savoie sets the team's new upper limit for the cap at the point Kane is placed on LTIR. They can then exceed this new upper limit by Kane's full cap hit. Once the short term injuries are over though they can drop back below the upper limit with Kane still on LTIR and still accrue cap space.

I see, so the "no accrual in LTIR" is a bit of a simplification. Is this a fair representation of your point?

1) In a general sense, if a team is at a full 24 person roster, already at $87 of $88M cap and have a $5M player eligible for LTIR, then they would be allowed to run a cap of $92M (87+ $5M LTIR). And they would NOT accrue cap on the $1M space below the cap?
2) However if the same team then decided to send down two guys at $1M each, since their upper limit was 87 (+5 LTIR) and they were now running $85 (+5 LTIR) then the $2M delta WOULD accrue?

Just trying to make sure I understand... I was under the impression that there is no accrual in LTIR (which was supported by the links I shared yesterday).

 

[Fourier]

I see, so the "no accrual in LTIR" is a bit of a simplification. Is this a fair representation of your point?

1) In a general sense, if a team is at a full 24 person roster, already at $87 of $88M cap and have a $5M player eligible for LTIR, then they would be allowed to run a cap of $92M (87+ $5M LTIR). And they would NOT accrue cap on the $1M space below the cap?
2) However if the same team then decided to send down two guys at $1M each, since their upper limit was 87 (+5 LTIR) and they were now running $85 (+5 LTIR) then the $2M delta WOULD accrue?

Just trying to make sure I understand... I was under the impression that there is no accrual in LTIR (which was supported by the links I shared yesterday).

I want to make this clear. If Kane was in LTIR they only accrue space if their total commitment including Kane's cap hit drops below the new upper limit. So really it would be

2) However if the same team then decided to send down two guys at $1M each, since their upper limit was 87 (+5 LTIR) and they were now running $85M then the $2M delta WOULD accrue?

Once they actually use the LTIR space to exceed the new upper limit they don't accrue space until they are no longer using that LTIR space.

 

[Stoneman89]

I actually don't think that was in, the parrallax effect makes it look like it was over the line from one angle, but that's an optical illusion.

When you watch the over head angle, Khabibulin kicks it out.



It would have to be 100% for them to call that a goal in that situation, even today I think it would be called no goal.

Not sure what this is that you're showing, but it sure isn't game 6 of the 2005 finals against the Lightning.

 

[Soundwave]

Not sure what this is that you're showing, but it sure isn't game 6 of the 2005 finals against the Lightning.

I know but it's the same situation, funny thing is it happened to the Flames again, but it shows you how that angle can distort what you think is over the line.

In the 2004 Finals G6 case, watch the overhead angle specifically it does not look like it ever crosses the line. Khabby kicks it out.

Ignore the parallax angle and look at the direct overhead, it wasn't in the net IMO and I say that as someone who did think it probably was in before, but now that I've watched the video clearly and understand the parallax effect, I honestly don't think that puck ever fully crossed the line.



Look at 6 seconds specifically and 18 seconds. Unfortunately it's shitty SD resolution, but I think even if that happened in a game nowadays it would be inconclusive at best.

Honestly I didn't have any terribly strong feelings about the 2004 Finals one way or another unlike Flames fans who were seething jealous the two times since we made the Finals. I was generally willing to buy the "it was in" narrative, but looking at it again, especially the overhead, it looks like what actually happened is the puck makes contact with Khabibulin's upper/mid pad, and then he kicks it out. The pad would've had to have been further back behind the goal line for the puck to have fully crossed. If anything Khabibulin has been robbed for making one of the biggest saves in Cup Finals history, because no one gives him credit for that, lol.

 

[Stoneman89]

I know but it's the same situation, funny thing is it happened to the Flames again, but it shows you how that angle can distort what you think is over the line.

In the 2004 Finals G6 case, watch the overhead angle specifically it does not look like it ever crosses the line. Khabby kicks it out.

Ignore the parallax angle and look at the direct overhead, it wasn't in the net IMO and I say that as someone who did think it probably was in before, but now that I've watched the video clearly and understand the parallax effect, I honestly don't think that puck ever fully crossed the line.



Look at 6 seconds specifically and 18 seconds. Unfortunately it's shitty SD resolution, but I think even if that happened in a game nowadays it would be inconclusive at best.

Honestly I didn't have any terribly strong feelings about the 2004 Finals one way or another unlike Flames fans who were seething jealous the two times since we made the Finals. I was generally willing to buy the "it was in" narrative, but looking at it again, especially the overhead, it looks like what actually happened is the puck makes contact with Khabibulin's upper/mid pad, and then he kicks it out. The pad would've had to have been further back behind the goal line for the puck to have fully crossed. If anything Khabibulin has been robbed for making one of the biggest saves in Cup Finals history, because no one gives him credit for that, lol.

Except they didn't know/use a "parallax view" in 2004, and at the time were restricted to what was available, which was an angle(s) that showed the puck looking like it was in the net, which is what they should have used.

 

[oobga]

Big test for the NHL. Can they stand the Oilers gaming LTIR with Kane getting up to speed in practice for the last 1-2 months of the year? Basically exactly what Kucherov did after his hip surgery. Think he did full practice for a whole month just to get to game 1 of the playoffs.