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News Article: Eugene Melnyk lawsuits:too many to count...

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JD1 said:
A bank draft is not a loan arrangement. You take out a draft, the bank takes your money, the draft is made out to someone. There's not much to be in breach of.
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I specifically said if you used a credit facility to obtain the bank draft. Do you see that?

Is it your position that a borrower cannot be in breach of a loan agreement?

Please re-read my post and quote where I said a draft is a loan.
 
Micklebot said:
My assumptions start at Melnyk got a draft from his bank, gave that draft to the casino and then the bank that issued the draft rightfully refused to honour it. Nothing about melnyk defaulting on a payment.

There are a very narrow set of circumstances where a bank can refuse to honour a draft without itself getting sued. There is obviously more to the story because if it were a simple mix up alternate payment arrangements could have been made. Bank drafts could have been returned, debts could have been settled but that didn't happen. Perhaps melnyk disputes the debt and thats why the issuing bank thought fraud might be involved (on the part of the casino perhaps)
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My suspicion would be he used a LOC to pay for the drafts, and between the issuance of the drafts and the tendering of them, the bank determined that he had violated the LOC agreement. The most likely things would be failure to report a material change in his financial situation.
 
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Micklebot said:
My assumptions start at Melnyk got a draft from his bank, gave that draft to the casino and then the bank that issued the draft rightfully refused to honour it. Nothing about melnyk defaulting on a payment.

There are a very narrow set of circumstances where a bank can refuse to honour a draft without itself getting sued. There is obviously more to the story because if it were a simple mix up alternate payment arrangements could have been made. Bank drafts could have been returned, debts could have been settled but that didn't happen. Perhaps melnyk disputes the debt and thats why the issuing bank thought fraud might be involved (on the part of the casino perhaps)
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There is clearly something not right with this story.

One thing is very clear: when you get a bank draft, your money is gone. Full stop. The question is why didn't that money end up at the casino? We dont know the answer to that.

I know from Melnyk's view if he did take a bank draft and for whatever reason it didn't end up with the casino yet his 900k was gone, I doubt he rushed down to the bank to hand over another 900k while the mess got sorted out.

15 years back I got caught up between a global name recognition company and their financing arm over having paid the same bill twice, through no fault of my own other than accepting the word of a store manager on something, and it took me almost a year to recover an amount of money in the low 5 digit range. The global company and it's financing arm kept blaming one another and neither would return my money. I eventually had to initiate legal action to recover the money, notwithstanding both the company and it's finance arm all the way along agreed I was owed the money .

900k is a lot of money. How many guys would rush out to provide a replacement 900k if from their vantage point they paid the initial 900k.

I wonder what the league thinks of it. This doesn't appear to be a sports betting issue. Just a casino loss. It's a lot of money obviously, but not in the context of being a billionaire. I'm sure they hate the publicity but i wonder what if anything they can do about it
 
Fenway said:
This is SO complicated

Mohegan Sun seeking to recover $900,000 from NHL team owner

Mohegan Sun ( along with Foxwoods ) had a nice 20-year run being the only casinos between NYC and Boston. That is no longer the case with casinos now in Rhode Island and Massachusetts.

Melnyk is a ticking time bomb BUT the NHL can't do anything unless he misses a payroll.

Here is the issue that drives Bettman crazy - Melnyk owns the only arena in Ottawa that is acceptable to the NHL. The NHL could force Melnyk to sell the team BUT they can not force him to sell the arena.
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Sens could play in the civic center and I am pretty sure the city would fast track a new building on Lebretons.

Melnyk would be stupid to keep the the arena with a major tenant.
 
Tighthead said:
I specifically said if you used a credit facility to obtain the bank draft. Do you see that?

Is it your position that a borrower cannot be in breach of a loan agreement?

Please re-read my post and quote where I said a draft is a loan.
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I didn't read your post closely enough. I missed your point on the credit facility. You responded to one of my posts and my thoughts were about my initial post.

Also saw your next post.

Draft obtained on an LOC. LOC terms violated. Bank cancels draft. Ok, I get that. Can that happen? I'm thinking the bank calls Melnyk on the 900k loc, not cancels the draft but the situation lacks sufficient detail to understand what happened
 
Larionov said:
Anyone who claims to be a consistent winner in the casinos is usually full of it. The casinos have this down to a science - there is no way to consistently game the system and win. If you do, they simply ban you from their premises, but they don't have to do that very often. Gambling is an addiction, and given Eugene's past affinity for the horses, plus this, it's fair to suspect now if he has a gambling problem.
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Ways to be bad at gambling:

1. you don't understand the game and you make bad decisions
2. Bad luck (I shoulda won you know! dealer hit a 5 on a 16!)
3. you do it a lot
 
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I think it's safe to assume that Eugene probably put an end to this type of behaviour 2.5 years ago and were likely not to see any more owner distraction coming within the next....day, week,month or year!?!? He learns from his mistakes! :sarcasm:
 
JD1 said:
It's not that simple Dave. The story lacks detail and the lack of detail makes the story confusing and it doesn't add up.
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It’s pretty simple to pay a 900k gambling tab when you’re, allegedly, a billionaire, and not get sued. It happens every day at casinos around the world.

And regardless of what happened with the draft, whether it was a simple misunderstanding or fraud, Melnyk clearly didn’t feel the need to settle his debt through other means in 2 years.

“Oh, bank draft didn’t go through? Guess I get to keep the 900k!”

That’s not how it works Eugene.
 
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Larionov said:
Anyone who claims to be a consistent winner in the casinos is usually full of it. The casinos have this down to a science - there is no way to consistently game the system and win. If you do, they simply ban you from their premises, but they don't have to do that very often. Gambling is an addiction, and given Eugene's past affinity for the horses, plus this, it's fair to suspect now if he has a gambling problem.
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What's amazing about casino gambling is that the margins are relatively low, but the volume is huge. And bad players fatten the margins.

Poker is considered a game of skill, not chance. So if the top players in the world sit at a table with me and my friends, they should take all our money. But if you read stories about most of those old time guys (Brunson, Cloutier etc) they are all degenerate gamblers outside of poker. It's bizarre.
 
JD1 said:
I didn't read your post closely enough. I missed your point on the credit facility. You responded to one of my posts and my thoughts were about my initial post.

Also saw your next post.

Draft obtained on an LOC. LOC terms violated. Bank cancels draft. Ok, I get that. Can that happen? I'm thinking the bank calls Melnyk on the 900k loc, not cancels the draft but the situation lacks sufficient detail to understand what happened
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Cancelling the draft gives them immediate security. If he has already breached the LOC, likely for being a credit risk and/or misrepresenting his position ,chasing him for $900k cash is a bad idea.
 
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Tighthead said:
What's amazing about casino gambling is that the margins are relatively low, but the volume is huge. And bad players fatten the margins.

Poker is considered a game of skill, not chance. So if the top players in the world sit at a table with me and my friends, they should take all our money. But if you read stories about most of those old time guys (Brunson, Cloutier etc) they are all degenerate gamblers outside of poker. It's bizarre.
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A lot of the known poker pros got rich from Guy Laliberte. Guy lost like 30 million+ just on full tilt poker not to mention the private games where they took advantage of him. The best poker pros in the world are guys you have probably never even heard of. Degenerate gambling, scamming, and just straight scum baggery run rampant in the poker world even by people who are viewed as top pros/celebrities by the general public.
 
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2CHAINZ said:
A lot of the known poker pros got rich from Guy Laliberte. Guy lost like 30 million+ just on full tilt poker not to mention the private games where they took advantage of him. The best poker pros in the world are guys you have probably never even heard of. Degenerate gambling, scamming, and just straight scum baggery run rampant in the poker world even by people who are viewed as top pros/celebrities by the general public.
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I was referring more to the old days, but I've always sensed it's pretty dirty. If they all play each other, it's a zero sum game. They need whales, and I'm sure there are side deals and hustles at those private games. I'm more likely to lose my shirt if I go on a hot streak early, so if I'm the whale they are going to work me.
 
Perhaps Euge was so heartbroken over not getting to build a casino in Kanata that he drowned his sorrows by going to others? That's gotta be it! Look at what you did to this great man, Jim Watson! Shame!
 
inthewings said:
What round pick are we looking at selling to pay this off? Probably just a 3rd?
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Depends on the balance left over from the garage sale yesterday, by my rough estimate we can minus about $10k from the $1 billion lebreton lawsuit+$900k gambling lawsuit+1.55m million wrongful dismissal lawsuit+whatever the pay out is for the randy lee lawsuit! Which combo of picks and prospects could be valued over a billion? Maybe Boro straight up?
 
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Possible explanation .......there is a substantial deposit in the form of cheque’s drawn on another bank made to clients account from 3rd party persons or companies which boosts the balance of the account to level where drafts are purchased and monies taken from account to buy the drafts .....then theses deposited cheque’s are charged back to customers account due to nsf or some other reason and there is now no money to offset the draft purchase. Now with large dollar amounts you would think the bank that issued drafts would have put a hold on those deposits to funds cleared .....but it may have been overlooked when u look at the overall value of the client ..history on the account or just an oversight.....
 
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