2011 Stanley Cup ESPN 30 for 30: I'm Just Here for the Riot

Caught some of the doc last night. The Vancouver news media, print as well, brought up the 84' riots after losing to NY. Not sure I would have brought that up.

That was the thing that struck me. That they brought them up, and that the 2011 populace thought it was motivation for them to have (to quote The Clash) "a riot of our own". That, and the sheer lack of humanity in the rioters; the blank generation, checked out grins on their faces, were the most shocking for me.

As to the Facebook shaming, I have only one reply: Yeah, it's bad, but your feelings being hurt by mean words are nothing to me after seeing the middle aged man trying to protect a store being dragged into the gutter and beaten mercilessly. Him, and the two guys who tried to save him and protect the store (which seemed to be a historic building of some sort) are where my sympathies lie, and I'm not one bit sorry for that.
 
Just finished watching the documentary. Wow. IMHO that was one of the best 30 for 30's I've seen in a long time. I'm probably gonna need a couple days to process my thoughts on this, but here's a few off the top of my head...

1. This wasn't a sports documentary. This was a documentary on the human condition.

2. The steps that Vancouver took to expose the perpetrators were fine in my opinion. I also don't have a lot of sympathy for the consequences that those involved had to deal with.

3. I love the fact that they referenced the '94 riots as well, for the benefit of the younger audience. I remember the '94 riots and also remember back in 2011, people talking about he '94 riots as a point of pride, and wanting to uphold tradition in some warped perspective.

4. I really appreciated that they called out the Social Media Mob as well as the ACTUAL MOB. The mob mentality exists on the internet, just as much as it does on the street. Even more so. I thought they elegantly drew a similarity between the crowd beating up and kicking a guy on the ground, during the riot, with people kicking people when they were down on social media as well. I get that those are 2 totally different situations, but I'm glad the documentary pointed it out.

5. On a lighter note. I absolutely laughed my ASS OFF, when the rioter described breaking into a store, shoplifting a bag of chips and the jar of maple syrup, and then smashing the maple syrup on the sidewalk as he left. I can't think of a more Canadian, nor more pathetic, thing to do during a riot if I tried. I couldn't stop laughing.

That last thing I'll say, is that I couldn't help but notice how many people were young and in their late teens to mid-twenties. It made me reflect on what I would have done at that age if I was in that situation. If I were in a similar situation cheering for my team in an outdoor venue, with my college buddies and shit-faced since 2pm.......I'd like to think that I'd have been smart enough to have been able to walk away. But if I'm completely honest, I'm not 100% sure that I would have.

Excellent review. Thank you.

Now where's that maple syrup?

Here it is...
 
Thought the Vancouver police deserved more praise for how few people got seriously injured despite the anarchy and chaos. BPD killed an innocent girl who was posing no threat in 2004.
 
Thought the Vancouver police deserved more praise for how few people got seriously injured despite the anarchy and chaos. BPD killed an innocent girl who was posing no threat in 2004.

In their defense, they were using pepper balls specifically because they are supposed to be non-lethal. It was a terrible one-in-a-million tragedy that the girl was killed.
 
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Great news for Bruin fans living in Canada - TSN2 will air this 30 For 30 episode this coming Friday night at 9 pm Pacific. If you are setting your PVR please note that this is a 90 minute show. :thumbu:
can`t wait

It’s reprehensible. I think the people that are in it did get arrested.


You always expect to get heckled but it’s unnerving to think your fandom could cause you to be hurt
my wife`s nephew did, never been in trouble ever before, could have given a rat`s ass about hockey but got caught up in the stupidity
 
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Not a bad watch. Bit odd though in that it really had nothing to do with sport and the topic is really only interesting if you're willing to get proper into the psychology/biology behind rioting, human group behaviour and social media. Which didn't happen, as could only be expected given that ESPN is not the right platform or the right audience for it. As it was, entertaining but fairly superficial.
 
Not a bad watch. Bit odd though in that it really had nothing to do with sport and the topic is really only interesting if you're willing to get proper into the psychology/biology behind rioting, human group behaviour and social media. Which didn't happen, as could only be expected given that ESPN is not the right platform or the right audience for it. As it was, entertaining but fairly superficial.
Agreed.

I found myself skipping through it, and ultimately not making it to the end.

I've been self-employed my entire adult life, and had an office alongside other small businesses; I closed it two years ago after being there twenty-seven years.

As such, I have no sympathy for anyone destroying property that doesn't belong to them, business or otherwise. So I don't see the online people exposing the rioters as a mob of a different nature; most were doing it because to anyone who operates a small business, the thought of people getting away with such criminal activity is sickening.

If that were my business being destroyed, or my car, etc., I absolutely would want the perpetrators exposed.

I would be interested in a documentary from a hockey standpoint. Multiple young Vancouver fans from that time are in the NHL - Connor Bedard, soon Macklin Celebrini, and Parker Wotherspoon was actually at Game 7. I'd be fascinated hearing their takes on the game and its aftermath.
 
Agreed.

I found myself skipping through it, and ultimately not making it to the end.

I've been self-employed my entire adult life, and had an office alongside other small businesses; I closed it two years ago after being there twenty-seven years.

As such, I have no sympathy for anyone destroying property that doesn't belong to them, business or otherwise. So I don't see the online people exposing the rioters as a mob of a different nature; most were doing it because to anyone who operates a small business, the thought of people getting away with such criminal activity is sickening.

If that were my business being destroyed, or my car, etc., I absolutely would want the perpetrators exposed.

I would be interested in a documentary from a hockey standpoint. Multiple young Vancouver fans from that time are in the NHL - Connor Bedard, soon Macklin Celebrini, and Parker Wotherspoon was actually at Game 7. I'd be fascinated hearing their takes on the game and its aftermath.

I think there's definitely a conversation to be had around online hate mobs, or whatever you want to call them. There's a difference between wanting to expose offenders and sheer abuse, death threats etc. But as an angle here to gain a little sympathy for some of the rioters, it was probably misplaced, and really done a disserve due to not being unpacked properly. That said I do think overall the producers played it pretty straight - I don't think there was a clear goal to make us feel sorry for these people, nor to vilify them.

Probably the doc was also hurt by the fact that, predictably, the rioters who agreed to be interviewed seemed pretty low level in terms of what they personally did. Made their stories less interesting and less insightful. Actually the most interesting guy was the one who'd taken part in the '94 riots and been imprisoned for it. His reflections were more meaningful, and he was able to contrast what he did with what he saw 17 years later.

I agree that it would have been more interesting to delve into the sporting side more, and would have played more to ESPN's strengths. What do the riots say about the nature of sports fandom in Vancouver, or even in Canada more broadly? Is there anything about hockey and its associated culture particularly that has an influence? What did fans and players, both then and now, as you say, think of it all?

Given I work in law enforcement, I'd have been interested to hear more on that aspect too. They touched on it a little bit, but there was definitely more to be said about why crowds that big were allowed to gather without sufficient crowd management practices in place (would never happen now) and why the police response seemed so slow, inadequate and poorly planned, especially given the city's history and the obvious level of emotional investment in the game. And why Vancouver? It's probably one of the last big cities in North America you'd expect this sort of thing to happen in.

For all that, as I said, thought the doco was ok and not without merit and food for thought. Just underwhelming and probably never really clear on what it wanted to say.
 
I think there's definitely a conversation to be had around online hate mobs, or whatever you want to call them. There's a difference between wanting to expose offenders and sheer abuse, death threats etc. But as an angle here to gain a little sympathy for some of the rioters, it was probably misplaced, and really done a disserve due to not being unpacked properly. That said I do think overall the producers played it pretty straight - I don't think there was a clear goal to make us feel sorry for these people, nor to vilify them.

Probably the doc was also hurt by the fact that, predictably, the rioters who agreed to be interviewed seemed pretty low level in terms of what they personally did. Made their stories less interesting and less insightful. Actually the most interesting guy was the one who'd taken part in the '94 riots and been imprisoned for it. His reflections were more meaningful, and he was able to contrast what he did with what he saw 17 years later.

I agree that it would have been more interesting to delve into the sporting side more, and would have played more to ESPN's strengths. What do the riots say about the nature of sports fandom in Vancouver, or even in Canada more broadly? Is there anything about hockey and its associated culture particularly that has an influence? What did fans and players, both then and now, as you say, think of it all?

Given I work in law enforcement, I'd have been interested to hear more on that aspect too. They touched on it a little bit, but there was definitely more to be said about why crowds that big were allowed to gather without sufficient crowd management practices in place (would never happen now) and why the police response seemed so slow, inadequate and poorly planned, especially given the city's history and the obvious level of emotional investment in the game. And why Vancouver? It's probably one of the last big cities in North America you'd expect this sort of thing to happen in.

For all that, as I said, thought the doco was ok and not without merit and food for thought. Just underwhelming and probably never really clear on what it wanted to say.
Many excellent points.

Absolutely cyber-bullying is an issue, as it is appalling what some will do behind the anonymity of a keyboard. Even at a site such as this, I'm sure the mods could regale us with unbelievable stories.

I post videos just for fun - me jumping rope, playing guitar, juggling, etc. Last year I dabbled with YouTube Shorts, and one jump rope video found its way into the algorithm. It got lots of hits, which initially had me surprised and happy; until I checked my notifications.

With lots of hits came lots of comments, many of which were extremely ugly. They actually gave me anxiety, and I even worried about my safety. Out of curiosity, I clicked on the channels of some of my "haters," and of course all were completely anonymous, with no content of their own.

And we've seen athletes including Mitch Marner and Jacob Trouba express dismay over social media posts.

So yes, online harassment is a legitimate concern.

My instinct as a small businessman is, rioters know if they were to vandalize a store or flip a police car on an ordinary day, they'd be arrested immediately. But during a riot, they feel they can get away with since everyone else is doing it. And they get brazen and film themselves.

The attitude of some online is to fight back, and not let them get away with it.

I wish they would have covered the issues you mentioned, too. I've wondered:

Did the incendiary nature of the series play a part? The '94 Canucks were a likable group, yet riots still occurred. On the other hand, Mark Recchi said the '11 Canucks squad was the most arrogant team he ever faced. And we all remember Alex Burrows, Aaron Rome, etc.

The Olympics were held in the same building the previous year, and there were large crowds; but Canada won. So I don't know.

I agree Vancouver seemed an unlikely place. It is picturesque, and by all accounts a friendly city with a great standard of living.
 
Many excellent points.

Absolutely cyber-bullying is an issue, as it is appalling what some will do behind the anonymity of a keyboard. Even at a site such as this, I'm sure the mods could regale us with unbelievable stories.

I post videos just for fun - me jumping rope, playing guitar, juggling, etc. Last year I dabbled with YouTube Shorts, and one jump rope video found its way into the algorithm. It got lots of hits, which initially had me surprised and happy; until I checked my notifications.

With lots of hits came lots of comments, many of which were extremely ugly. They actually gave me anxiety, and I even worried about my safety. Out of curiosity, I clicked on the channels of some of my "haters," and of course all were completely anonymous, with no content of their own.

And we've seen athletes including Mitch Marner and Jacob Trouba express dismay over social media posts.

So yes, online harassment is a legitimate concern.

My instinct as a small businessman is, rioters know if they were to vandalize a store or flip a police car on an ordinary day, they'd be arrested immediately. But during a riot, they feel they can get away with since everyone else is doing it. And they get brazen and film themselves.

The attitude of some online is to fight back, and not let them get away with it.

I wish they would have covered the issues you mentioned, too. I've wondered:

Did the incendiary nature of the series play a part? The '94 Canucks were a likable group, yet riots still occurred. On the other hand, Mark Recchi said the '11 Canucks squad was the most arrogant team he ever faced. And we all remember Alex Burrows, Aaron Rome, etc.

The Olympics were held in the same building the previous year, and there were large crowds; but Canada won. So I don't know.

I agree Vancouver seemed an unlikely place. It is picturesque, and by all accounts a friendly city with a great standard of living.

Good points all.

There are unfortunately some really strange, disturbed and resentful people out there. More than we like to think about, probably. If you're using jump rope video comments as an outlet for hate, I submit you've taken a wrong turn in life. Probably several of them.

I do think the nature of the series was a factor. That Canucks team certainly had a lot of arrogance, bravado and greasiness about them. But being that way obliged the Bruins to respond in kind. So a team that was already pretty physical turned up the hitting and the willingness to push back and get nasty. As it should have. But being the 'Big Bad Bruins' and the team that most other fans already love to hate, it was very easy for Vancouver fans to convince themselves that their players were the good guys and the sole aggrieved party. Which is the natural response in sport, but it seems to have been felt particularly strongly in this case. The hardcore of that fanbase really hated us.

Plus, judging from comments at the time and also in the documentary, an awful lot of Nucks fans seemed absolutely convinced they were going to win G7. It was their destiny. Which for supporters of a team that had never won anything is a strange level of confidence, but that's how it was. Put those two factors together and I think you've got a dangerous recipe for a lot of anger when it all goes south. There were other reasons for the riot for sure, but I think that aspect played a part, however small.
 
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The game started at 5pm Vancouver time. The bars were packed before it and people filled the downtown and their bellies with booze. Game ends around 8 or so…..3 hours of more booze and seeing the Bruins pick their team apart (again whoa!)…..then onto the streets they pour…..all fed into this happening. Today with everyone having a cell phone like it’s a 3rd arm, you would have much more footage and I would expect even clearer pics of who was doing the damage.

When Montreal won in ‘93, their riot involved gangs with walkie talkies looting and being blocks ahead of the police as they listened to them on the scanners that were for sale at Radio Shack so they had loads of time to loot and move on. Well organized. Sad really…..
 
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I had season tickets in 304 at the time and 2 of the people in our section went to Game 7. They said they got stopped on their way out of the arena by security and told they had to remove any trace of Bruins gear for their own safety. Crazy to think that your fandom would put you in danger.
My daughter lives in Calif and wanted me to go to game 7 with her. I couldn't afford it. She was going to go by herself...but changed her mind and found a Boston bar in San Francisco so went there instead.

People that would do this are assholes.

Never underestimate the power and stupidity of people in large groups.
THIS^ we see it today. Some people are stupid sheep and do not think. There are FAR too many of them.
 
My daughter lives in Calif and wanted me to go to game 7 with her. I couldn't afford it. She was going to go by herself...but changed her mind and found a Boston bar in San Francisco so went there instead.

People that would do this are assholes.


THIS^ we see it today. Some people are stupid sheep and do not think. There are FAR too many of them.

My standard, elitist, jerky rant:

Most people are f*cking stupid.

That doesn't mean they're bad people.

Stupidity to me means willful ignorance. It means thoughtless, clueless, comically self-centered behavior. It means Karen.

As noted previously, everyone should be required to work retail, "hospitality," or food industry for at least three months.

Perhaps then they might appreciate politeness, empathy, kindness, and gratitude.

You know, the best of what human beings can be.

Misanthrope that I am, nonetheless I see it every day.


 

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