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Speculation: Erik Karlsson on the move at the deadline?

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I don't think the original Karlsson trade was a bad move if the mandate from ownership was to push to extend their window. They missed the Wild Card spot by two wins. If they get those two wins, the pick ends up 17th overall and people view it as a lot less salacious since the player San Jose gets at 17 may not be anywhere near the one they were able to trade up from 14th for.

They dumped a bunch of bad money to subsidize the Karlsson trade, so even if they retain/take back bad contracts now, they probably come out even in terms of cap.

You can say that they should have rebuilt, but a GMs job is to execute the direction they are given. They can advocate or pitch to ownership what direction they think the team should go into, but at the end of the day if ownership says that they want playoffs a GMs job is to put the team in a position to try and make the playoffs.
 
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frightenedinmatenum2 said:
I don't think the original Karlsson trade was a bad move if the mandate from ownership was to push to extend their window. They missed the Wild Card spot by two wins. If they get those two wins, the pick ends up 17th overall and people view it as a lot less salacious since the player San Jose gets at 17 may not be anywhere near the one they were able to trade up from 14th for.

They dumped a bunch of bad money to subsidize the Karlsson trade, so even if they retain/take back bad contracts now, they probably come out even in terms of cap.

You can say that they should have rebuilt, but a GMs job is to execute the direction they are given. They can advocate or pitch to ownership what direction they think the team should go into, but at the end of the day if ownership says that they want playoffs a GMs job is to put the team in a position to try and make the playoffs.
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Yeah the Karlsson deal ended up bad because the Penguins ended up bad. If they made the playoffs and the pick was like 22nd overall, I don't think many people would be bringing up that trade as a massive issue.

The deal would still look like a win for San Jose because Granlund blew up and they got a 1st for limited retention, but the deal looks as bad as it does because the Penguins still stunk after getting Karlsson and that gave San Jose a great draft pick that they hit on.
 
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I do believe he will be moved in the offseason at the latest but disagree with everyone acting as if he’s going to be passed off a full retention with no return like he’s washed or something.

I’m not a huge EK guy so i rarely defend him other than in the context that Sullivan has played a major role in damaging his value by trying to unsuccessfully “Fix” his game when all he needed to do was pair him with Peterson and turn him loose.

If there is a team out there that can offer him a solid partner, a lot of pp time, and will let him just do his thing without trying to change him he will be a very effective player. Like he would kill it on the stars or the hurricanes right now.

You will never get his full value on ice under Sullivan. Having said that, he did miss training camp and was a shit show early in the season because he just jumped right in without much prep time after he was healthy but since about mid to late November he’s been pretty good. He is putting up points even without consistent top pp time, he has been minimizing mistakes in transition and his own end, leads the team in ice time and I think is like 2nd in blocked shots all while somewhat regularly rotating partners due to injuries. He has 32pts in 49 games, a 54pt pace, even with a slow start while playing under Sullivan which will probably end him in the top 8-10 for pts on defense.

The pens should be able to get a legit return on him with at most like 3 mil retention. Ek at 6 mil, not playing under Sullivan, is a bargain. And if you include the fact that the pens would take back a short term bad contract to make a trade work then it’s more than a bargain, it’s almost a steal.
 
Haven't read the thread but in to say, OP's title might want to read:

Erik Karlsson on the move soon as Dubas' curated early deadline looms?

If he's going, Dubas will have him gone sooner than later.

Not a Pens fan, but you don't have to be having experienced Dubas to not wish him on any club...except for Ottawa; He can galaxy brain the Sens into madness, that's fine.
 
SeanMoneyHands said:
Karlsson to the Leafs would make their Blueline a cup worthy one.
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...they already tried to play Tanev with Rielly and it didn't work, not to mention I dunno if McCabe is good enough defensively to cover for Swedish Jesus not playing defense at all...and it would break up the Leafs beest defensive pairing in McCabe - Tanev...so play Swedish Jesus with Rielly??... :dunno:
 
SomeDude said:
You sure do seem interested seeing as you clicked on an Erik Karlsson trade rumor thread.


r1a
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BTW your meme is not remotely applicable.

This thread is to speculate on Karlsson's trade value and potential trade options - and that is all that I've done.

If you want confirmation bias from a conversation filled with people cheerleading your team for its obvious blunders, there is a thread for that (although I'll warn you - it predictably did not age well):

Lust for Life

Confirmed with Link: Thread 'Penguins acquire Erik Karlsson for Granlund, 1st rounder in 2024, Rutta, Petry, DeSmith (more in first post)'



Full trade:

PIT receives: Karlsson ($1.5M retained), Rem Pitlick, Dillon Hamaliuk, 2026 third round from SJS
SJ receives: 2024 first round from PIT (top 10 protected), Granlund, Rutta, Hoffman
MTL receives: 2025 second round from PIT, Petry (25% retained), DeSmith, Legare

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BigDaddyLurch said:
...they already tried to play Tanev with Rielly and it didn't work, not to mention I dunno if McCabe is good enough defensively to cover for Swedish Jesus not playing defense at all...and it would break up the Leafs beest defensive pairing in McCabe - Tanev...so play Swedish Jesus with Rielly??... :dunno:
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There's nothing wrong with playing someone like Karlsson on the bottom pairing 5 on 5.

OEL has played well enough this year that he can be on the second pair with Reilly.
 
Has Karlsson’s defense degraded since he played for SJ, or are the comments more parroting the notion that he is terrible at defense without having actually watching him play? He was never a defensive stalwart, but on SJ he was a far cry from being as bad defensively as the HF community painted him as being. He was still elite at stopping zone entries and solid at breaking up the cycle and winning board battles, just couldn’t be assertive in front of the net and made some bonehead or low effort plays on occasion.
 
SeanMoneyHands said:
There's nothing wrong with playing someone like Karlsson on the bottom pairing 5 on 5.

OEL has played well enough this year that he can be on the second pair with Reilly.
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Having EK on a bottom pairing out against a 3rd or 4th line would be a nice match up advantage. Especially if you have a scorer on the bottom 6 lines.
 
Mattb124 said:
Has Karlsson’s defense degraded since he played for SJ, or are the comments more parroting the notion that he is terrible at defense without having actually watching him play? He was never a defensive stalwart, but on SJ he was a far cry from being as bad defensively as the HF community painted him as being. He was still elite at stopping zone entries and solid at breaking up the cycle and winning board battles, just couldn’t be assertive in front of the net and made some bonehead or low effort plays on occasion.
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He's very bad defensively.

His offense more than makes up for it tho making him a positive impact player still
 
frightenedinmatenum2 said:
I don't think the original Karlsson trade was a bad move if the mandate from ownership was to push to extend their window. They missed the Wild Card spot by two wins. If they get those two wins, the pick ends up 17th overall and people view it as a lot less salacious since the player San Jose gets at 17 may not be anywhere near the one they were able to trade up from 14th for.

They dumped a bunch of bad money to subsidize the Karlsson trade, so even if they retain/take back bad contracts now, they probably come out even in terms of cap.

You can say that they should have rebuilt, but a GMs job is to execute the direction they are given. They can advocate or pitch to ownership what direction they think the team should go into, but at the end of the day if ownership says that they want playoffs a GMs job is to put the team in a position to try and make the playoffs.
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Yup Dubas has made some terrible moves but I don’t consider EK one of them. If they decide to pivot and trade him they should recoup the assets they spent and then some.
 
Nogatco Rd said:
Yup Dubas has made some terrible moves but I don’t consider EK one of them. If they decide to pivot and trade him they should recoup the assets they spent and then some.
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He's older, less effective, still has a full NMC. He definitely still has value, but he's not recouping the value he was traded for unless there's serious retention.

IDK if they would retain or not, but Chris Johnston says no:

...Maybe one misconception that's out there - because there have been a lot of reports about the Penguins - they're not looking to retain salary on any of their players with multiple years left on their deal. So, it's not as though someone like Erik Karlsson is going to get traded with a salary retention spot. Pittsburgh has just one of those retention spots left and obviously they'll be careful with how they use it.
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Captain Mountain said:
He's older, less effective, still has a full NMC. He definitely still has value, but he's not recouping the value unless there's retention.

IDK if they would retain or not, but Chris Johnston says no:
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The reason they might not retain on him right now is that they only have 1 retention slot, they're using their other 2 on Petry and Smith. They probably want to use that last spot to drive up the return for Pettersson and then will use a retention slot on Karlsson in the off-season.

Especially with Karlsson getting a $5 million signing bonus on July 1st, I think we'll see Karlsson traded right after that bonus is paid. How much retention is based on how much the cap goes up, Karlsson is only owed $11.5 million after that bonus is paid (with San Jose paying $1.5 million of that). If the cap goes up a lot, I could see Karlsson getting traded with fairly low retention due to the low money owed and everyone having a lot of cap space.
 
Those signing bonuses limit so many teams right off the bat

Friedman outlined how many owners in the NHL hate SB's and the capital intensive nature of them
 
Midnight Judges said:
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Using goals and assists to demonstrate Karlsson not being the best offensive defenseman is certainly an interesting choice when he's 7th all time in points per game for Dmen and every guy ahead of him played in the 1980s. He's by far the best offensive defenseman of his era and maybe of all time
 
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