Confirmed with Link: Erik Gustafsson and a 1st Rounder (Bostons) for Rasmus Sandin.
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Hivemind
We're Touched
twabby
Registered User
- Mar 9, 2010
- 14,436
- 16,502
We’ll take Matthews for him. After all Matthews is only going to be a Maple Leaf for one more year anyways. Might as well cash out while you can!
Corby78
65 - 10 - 20
RedRocking
Registered User
Yea, I’m kind of in “pump the breaks” mode on Sandin. He was never able to play a top 4 role in TOR, and wasn’t going to get a sweater in the loffs. So I’m not sure we can just assume he’ll immediately make the jump from a sheltered 3rd pair to a top pair for us.
Cautiously optimistic, but def gonna wait and see before celebrating this move. That 1st was our best bargaining chip this TDL (or offseason), so I hope he’s worth it!
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HTFN
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2009
- 12,682
- 11,752
I saw it more like swapping for a younger Orlov, at least based on how Orlov used to play and came into the league rather than how he's developed.
if anything it seems like the potential is kind of there to do it again but sightly different, maybe a little more offense
I was probably one of zero caps fans who'd have given you Tom, Eller, Vanecek/Samsonov and a sweetener for Marner in the offseason when he was a whipping boy for the Tampa series. You'd have gotten a playoff package and we'd have gotten Marner feeding Ovi to the goal record.
A lot of times a change of scenery for prospects can be an opportunity for growth. Also the drafting team can get a bit jaded based on higher expectations where the 2nd team has a bit more realistic idea of what the player is. Siegs is a good example going the other way.
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Sandin has some great potential, getting a player of his calibre as a very late first rounder would have been a great pick in itself.
This is really good IMO
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
And get what? We gave up a D we weren't going to keep and likely a very low 1st for a young, cost-controlled guy that can play middle pair minutes right now. That's a no-brainer. I feel like a lot of the critiques here are coming from fans who haven't seen this kid play much...
Case in point. This isn't either of those things. Sandin was boxed out by extremely established vets -- the same vets that will now box Gus out. They set up their left side to make a run this year, and gave up a young guy they really like to do it. This kid is a really good player. Even if he falls off some here, he'll just end up being a very strong 3rd-liner, and we've got enough restricted years left on him to make sure he isn't overpaid in the process.
This also isn't that. He didn't routinely play with Toronto's best talent, nor was he getting cupcake matchups.
Exactly. Look no further than Oshie for an example of a clumsy skater who's still managed to be a wildly effective player.
Just because he "can" play middle pairing minutes on a team going nowhere doesn't mean they need him to right now, especially for the price of a first. Look at the D that went on waivers this year. Mahura, Valimaaki, Kovacevic. Sandin hasn't done anything to separate himself from them
He did not get boxed out lol. He played like crap last year which led to them lowballing him and him holding out until almost TC to get the same team as Liljegren, another young D who actually played sound two way hockey. Then he got every opportunity in the world with half of Toronto's D going on IR this year and played as an alright bottom pairing PP specialist.
He was getting some of the easiest minutes of any of their D. I'd have been fine claiming him on waivers or maybe giving up a 3rd for him like the Devils had for Siegenthaler but this is just bad asset management and reeks of BMac getting a boner for a middling player we don't even really need at the moment and overpaying like he did for Mantha.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
We'll have to agree to disagree on how he compares to waiver D. You and I must watch different games.
What do you think that 1st guarantees you? Look at what we've been getting at D from late-firsts -- a bunch of AHL tweeners that can't make the jump. I'll trade a late 1st for a bona fide NHL LD that's 22 and cost-controlled all day long. At 1.4m for another year and restricted, it doesn't matter if his trajectory falters some. He's a better player than Fehervary right now, and at least appears to also have more potential upside.
I like this move a lot. Way better than what would have been available dumpster-diving in the offseason, and using the pick would've taken years to yield a guy we can use, if at all.
You saw Sandin do something more impressive with the Leafs than Mahura did with this year's Panthers? Or Valimaaki with this year's Coyotes (the same Coyotes whose reject Conor Timmins lapped circles around Sandin after getting traded to the Leafs)? We watch verry different games indeed. Is Sandin a different tier of player than Strome or Milano, who even this team with their very pedestrian pro scouting managed to get for free? Was there a reason to pay a first for him NOW, in the midst of this throwaway season, rather than waiting til the draft and seeing if a top 10 player inexplicably slips to Boston's pick?
A first in the right hands (plus whateer Gus was worth on his own) guarantees much more opportunity to acquire talent. Just because BMac has been ineffectual at drafting NHL talent does not mean protecting him from wasting another first is a good move. If anything its a sign that you should get a better GM rather than waiting until he Forsbergs an Erat like we did with McPhee (and the Mantha trade was up there). More importantly, a first in the right hands gives you a shot at a Kuzy, Wilson, etc. - impact high end player of a different caliber than anything Sandin has shown
trick9
Registered User
- Jun 2, 2013
- 12,727
- 5,992
Interesting trade for sure. We'll see how Sandin develops when given some harder minutes. Should atleast add something to their offense and give them another good puck-mover to replace Orlov.
I don't really know how to feel about this trade though. Obviously we will never know what was in the cards but to me it doesn't scream great asset managing that rental Orlov and Hathaway went for just 1st + 2nd (3rd was to dump Smith). I don't know if the Leafs were ever interested in Orlov but looking at this trade maybe they should have just cut the middle man and moved Orlov straight to Toronto. In hindsight the trade is now Orlov and Gus for Sandin, which to me is an overpayment for sure. That being said it's hard to be sad about it because keeping Orlov was never in the cards and we desperately need help in D for next season. I hope they strike gold with Sandin because the potential is there.
One does wonder now with Jensen extension done too that they propably missed out on the boat to acquire draft capital. Lots of trades done today and there are even fewer teams on the market and the assets left to move are (possibly)... Sheary, TvR, Eller and Smith. I still would like to keep TvR if it's possible with an reasonable extension but the rest... maybe they can atleast acquire a 2023 3rd rounder back for one of them. Otherwise they will have 2 picks in the top-90 in the upcoming draft.
I don't really know how to feel about this trade though. Obviously we will never know what was in the cards but to me it doesn't scream great asset managing that rental Orlov and Hathaway went for just 1st + 2nd (3rd was to dump Smith). I don't know if the Leafs were ever interested in Orlov but looking at this trade maybe they should have just cut the middle man and moved Orlov straight to Toronto. In hindsight the trade is now Orlov and Gus for Sandin, which to me is an overpayment for sure. That being said it's hard to be sad about it because keeping Orlov was never in the cards and we desperately need help in D for next season. I hope they strike gold with Sandin because the potential is there.
One does wonder now with Jensen extension done too that they propably missed out on the boat to acquire draft capital. Lots of trades done today and there are even fewer teams on the market and the assets left to move are (possibly)... Sheary, TvR, Eller and Smith. I still would like to keep TvR if it's possible with an reasonable extension but the rest... maybe they can atleast acquire a 2023 3rd rounder back for one of them. Otherwise they will have 2 picks in the top-90 in the upcoming draft.
Portable Mink
Registered User
I love this.
Basically we are trading a late first which means a hope and a prayer and a maybe FOR skipping 5 years of development into a known NHL player. Do this every time.
Basically we are trading a late first which means a hope and a prayer and a maybe FOR skipping 5 years of development into a known NHL player. Do this every time.
Drew311
Makes The Pass
- Oct 29, 2010
- 11,902
- 2,381
The analytics don't really match up with the eye test. Sandin had a very impressive couple of weeks when Rielly was out, but other than that he's been pretty inconsistent. None of his skills really stand out....average skater, shot, vision, IQ....but no glaring weekness. Small kid but has some grit....throws some nice hits. Hopefully he flourishes with the increased workload and begins to break out soon.
LeafsandSharksfan
Cero Miedo
- Jan 19, 2010
- 4,571
- 786
Leafs fan here, I see Sandin as 100% a top four guy who just wasn't able to get past Reilly and Brodie (Plus now Gio) on the left side depth chart still relatively early in his career. He notably plays a lot better with more minutes and responsibility - if Washington can give him that I think he will be at the level of the two guys I mentioned in a few years. I think it was just wrong place wrong time for a team that is looking to make a playoff run against very physical teams with too many guys already playing his style.
I've never seen Gus throw some hits for a smaller guy like Sandin has shown.
Every trade can be a gamble. Initially I thought Mantha would be a good fit with his size and skill, however he has flopped due to his lack of motivation and dedication. I mean how can you have that kind of talent and not score with Ovy, Backstrom, Oshie, Wilson, and Kuzy? Then there is the other side of it. When Jensen first became a Cap I wanted him out of here after his first playoff appearance. After a year and half of play, he really elevated his hockey play to another level. As for Siegenthaler, well I don't remember anyone being all pro Siegs until this year. Guys like him take a little bit of time to develop more. I say damn the salary cap!
You guys are going to like him, I don't know if he's better than Gus right now, you could make the case either way, but he will be in 2 years or less baring injury.
He's a good skater, he's got good offensive instincts, he can run your 2nd PP, he's an under rated hitter, you will never expect it, and then he will throw a BEAUTIFUL open ice hit.
I would be WAY more upset with this if I felt the 1st round pick was staying but I don't think it is.
I'm not even sure Gus is staying because they are 10 deep now, if you include Benn.
there is another move.
He's a good skater, he's got good offensive instincts, he can run your 2nd PP, he's an under rated hitter, you will never expect it, and then he will throw a BEAUTIFUL open ice hit.
I would be WAY more upset with this if I felt the 1st round pick was staying but I don't think it is.
I'm not even sure Gus is staying because they are 10 deep now, if you include Benn.
there is another move.
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
- 33,203
- 10,733
Well that won't happen but I generally agree with much of the rest. You never know what else may materialize on the trade market in the off-season and Boston's pick was their main expendable asset. Players with skating issues on this team will be hard pressed to be part of the solution unless they're incredibly intelligent and consistently engaged. And I don't know that Sandin is quite on that level, though I do love some of the flashes of physicality. If he were on that level why had he fallen on the depth chart? Toronto could have not acquired McCabe and ran with him and chose not to.
Time will tell but I'm not sure this is a potential top pair guy. DAL also paid up quite a bit for Lundkvist and I think they're somewhat similar. Sandin is more established, further along and ultimately likely the better player. But in terms of ideal fits I don't know that I would have started with a smaller, slower D whose main value won't be a shutdown or PK role and may not even be much of a PP guy. If his reads and confidence progress further he can help get up into the play but I'm not sure he's got the tools to be dynamic and overly productive. Given their need for more goal production I'm not sure I would have prioritized cheap 5v5 underlying potential from the back-end as the place to start. It's a fair gamble but there's still a lot TBD as far as his upside and also fixing the mix up front.
Here's a thought. Do any of you believe Orlov might return due to Ovy factor and bond with many Cap's players and if he might drop the term? I really believe he wants the retirement contract and cash in while he can, however I won't rule it out entirely.
Sorry, please move my previous post to Caps's Roster thread.
Sorry, please move my previous post to Caps's Roster thread.
