Erie Otters 2024 - 25 Season Thread, Part I

[Matthew L Wilson]

The constant in this whole narrative is Dave Brown. Kris Knoblauch was hired by Bassin, and one could argue that he was one of the better coaches in the OHL. After Bassin sold the club, Brown has made one bad hire after another...good ole' boys that think that swearing, yelling and bullying the kids is coaching. If Brown stays, he had better realize that he isn't a good judge of character. If not, so sinks the Otters.

 

[EOtterstracker]

I wonder if this supposed video will ever come out.
It has been said it was caught on video.

 

[NOA]

Probably shouldn't rush into anything. Take the offseason to do a proper coach search and get someone to really build around. Even if that means you just run a lame duck interim coach the rest of the year.

At this point, that should be their only choice.. zero reason or need to rush to hire someone to coach for 25 games unless you have a can’t miss name a la Knoblauch, but I don’t expect that type of hire. Really, the organization needs to spend real time and resources to get this next hire right and that means USE THE TIME YOU HAVE. 2-3 months to identify some candidates before interviewing / hiring someone in the spring or early summer. Use your time wisely..

IMO the current assistant coaches aren’t anything worth getting excited about and outside of Erie, nobody seems to have interest in them at this level. Time to move on from both of them either way, like bring in a complete new staff. Wolfe has been here far too long like what has he done?? Also, Erie already made this mistake promoting BJ from within because the team played with some fight down the stretch (just because Hartsburg was that much of a tool). I would hope the org doesn’t get tricked into using the results the rest of the year to justify the cheap, easy promotion. Nope, not good enough. Find real coaches!! Stop settling..

The team has performed below expectations all year so seeing a small jump in performance because the players actually like the personality of their leader(s) now would be normal and expected. It doesn’t mean either are actual good, capable long term solutions

 

[EvenSteven]

His reputation speaks for itself.
Sounds like he just got away with something disgusting and there are more than enough situations and example that point at him being a disgusting person.

 

[EvenSteven]

If he was accused why did NB keep him around so long? Other teams kept him employed knowing the same circumstances.

Because the long time owner of the Battalion (Scott Abbott of Trivial Pursuit fame) is a life long buddy of Butler. So despite team record and his past, always had no fear of getting let go.

 

[NOA]

To an earlier post.. while it’s fair to talk about the past with SB - it’s also important to note SB was hired by a WHL team shortly after and then spent 20 years with an OHL franchise before Erie hired him.

It’s not really worth a discussion right now especially when nobody that I recall brought up these concerns on this thread when the hire was originally announced a few years ago.

 

[Guy In Burlington]

Because the long time owner of the Battalion (Scott Abbott of Trivial Pursuit fame) is a life long buddy of Butler. So despite team record and his past, always had no fear of getting let go.

I don’t know about lifelong. I don’t think they’d met before Abbott hired him in 1998.

I think he lasted that long in Brampton/NB because a) he’s good at persuading people of things, b) Abbott is a very loyal guy (see; Mike Griffin lasting as team president for a dog’s age) and c) for all of his money, Abbott isn’t exactly a genius at organizational management.

I think he finally got fired, or “made special advisor,” because he had just signed a contract worth a lot of money and promptly gave Abbott a team that was 20th in the OHL in year one. I think there was a front office-led coup at that point and Abbott finally said enough is enough.

 

[Mata]

I don’t know about lifelong. I don’t think they’d met before Abbott hired him in 1998.

I think he lasted that long in Brampton/NB because a) he’s good at persuading people of things, b) Abbott is a very loyal guy (see; Mike Griffin lasting as team president for a dog’s age) and c) for all of his money, Abbott isn’t exactly a genius at organizational management.

I think he finally got fired, or “made special advisor,” because he had just signed a contract worth a lot of money and promptly gave Abbott a team that was 20th in the OHL in year one. I think there was a front office-led coup at that point and Abbott finally said enough is enough.

If his history is as bad as everyone is stating, Dave Brown definitely needs to go...this was his own personal hire

 

[LDN]

Holy shit!

 

[EOtterstracker]

Spence is scratched, anyone have an idea as to why?
I’d think a sustained injury from last game but not sure.

 

[chl2024]

Spence is scratched, anyone have an idea as to why?
I’d think a sustained injury from last game but not sure.

He switched to a fish bowl in the middle of the game in Niagara, so probably related to that

 

[OffIceMan]

Stick to their standards?
Why bring in a coach accused of having sex with a minor

Maybe because he was acquitted in a court of law?

that has a long history of misconduct issues to begin with?

Citations please?

If anything, the team should also review their hiring processes and determine how his pattern of problems was overlooked in a time where theres a massive microscope on Hockey.

Again, citations please?

The organization is just as at fault here for putting the players in this situation with a horrible hire in my opinion.

Where were you when he was hired?

Look, I'm not trying to stick up for him (especially the involvement with the minor, after which he should never have been allowed to work with teenagers), but at what point in someone's life do past mistakes deny them the ability to move forward with their lives?

 

[NOA]

Maybe because he was acquitted in a court of law?

Citations please?

Again, citations please?

Where were you when he was hired?

Look, I'm not trying to stick up for him (especially the involvement with the minor, after which he should never have been allowed to work with teenagers), but at what point in someone's life do past mistakes deny them the ability to move forward with their lives?

YES, YES and YES to your last paragraph.. Like is where was all this “outrage” when they hired him…

I would rather sit here and talk about his mediocrity as a coach in terms of on ice performance and results. That is the second guess when it comes to hiring him. The other stuff? I just don’t really see how that ties into this. Both questionable things but the details of something from 1982 to the alleged comment in 2024 aren’t really apples to apples imo, but like I think we should all just move on from that topic…

 

[Mata]

YES, YES and YES to your last paragraph.. Like is where was all this “outrage” when they hired him…

I would rather sit here and talk about his mediocrity as a coach in terms of on ice performance and results. That is the second guess when it comes to hiring him. The other stuff? I just don’t really see how that ties into this. Both questionable things but the details of something from 1982 to the alleged comment in 2024 aren’t really apples to apples imo, but like I think we should all just move on from that topic…

It was the organizations job to vet him, not ours. Also, our small army of less than 20 people didnt know who the candidates for HC were even going into the process, just speculation. Sure, people could have researched the so called rumor mill, but having some stuff documented and other stuff not, we weren't going to make waves and get him immediately dismissed.

If there was a pattern of questionable behavior over the 30 years he was in the league and it wasn't addressed, that's on DB and possibly JW and anyone else involved in the hiring process. If they vetted him and believed that to be a thing of the past or he has moved on, then barring whatever got him canned here is either on SB solely, or partially on SB and the Otters brass that vetted him and brought him in.

Our explanation was SB was a "really close friend of DB that goes way back and was doing us as a favor to help turn the franchise around" doesn't really seem to me like he was vetted and JW put all his trust in DB to make a decision (my speculation).

 

[rangersblues]

Maybe because he was acquitted in a court of law?

Citations please?

Again, citations please?

Where were you when he was hired?

Look, I'm not trying to stick up for him (especially the involvement with the minor, after which he should never have been allowed to work with teenagers), but at what point in someone's life do past mistakes deny them the ability to move forward with their lives?

Am I missing something or shouldn't Butler's involvement with a minor when he was teaching (which the judge concluded; it was the sex charge that wasn't proven) automatically disqualify him from being hired. The Battalion franchise needs to be questioned too.

 

[OttersFan]

Am I missing something or shouldn't Butler's involvement with a minor when he was teaching (which the judge concluded; it was the sex charge that wasn't proven) automatically disqualify him from being hired. The Battalion franchise needs to be questioned too.

That’s exactly what I said. As bad as it looks on us as a team for hiring him, it should’ve been the OHL who steps in to make the decision.

He was acquitted sure, but the involvement with a minor in any environment should be a red flag.

 

[NOA]

That’s exactly what I said. As bad as it looks on us as a team for hiring him, it should’ve been the OHL who steps in to make the decision.

He was acquitted sure, but the involvement with a minor in any environment should be a red flag.

I want to note that I’m not at all saying the prior stuff with SB is not a flag or concern but let’s not pretend we have all the details from a matter that happened in 1982 when he was 26 years old. To your point, 2 other franchises hired him and he coached for 20+ years before Erie. Not to mention coaching u18/u20 Canada teams and OHL all-stars all throughout his coaching time. Imo it’s irrelevant to what happened with this alleged comment. 2 completely different accusations

 

[Guy In Burlington]

Am I missing something or shouldn't Butler's involvement with a minor when he was teaching (which the judge concluded; it was the sex charge that wasn't proven) automatically disqualify him from being hired. The Battalion franchise needs to be questioned too.

Dave Branch was well aware of Butler’s history and would have been fine with Abbott hiring him. I imagine Branch is the one who got Butler out of Ontario and to Prince George for that one year, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he kinda sorta told Abbott “you can have a team, and I’ve got just the coach for you.”

 

[Fastpace]

I want to note that I’m not at all saying the prior stuff with SB is not a flag or concern but let’s not pretend we have all the details from a matter that happened in 1982 when he was 26 years old. To your point, 2 other franchises hired him and he coached for 20+ years before Erie. Not to mention coaching u18/u20 Canada teams and OHL all-stars all throughout his coaching time. Imo it’s irrelevant to what happened with this alleged comment. 2 completely different accusations

I agree !

Why is his past comes to hunt him now, that it did not matter before his suspension and now his firing. Why all of a sudden the story comes back to public pages after so many years, what similar conduct has he done recently for all this renewed interest ? Why it did not seem to matter at the time of his hiring, but it does today, or even 2 or 3 months ago? Could it be that certain someone was afraid to lose his position to Stan Butler, does it seem odd the suspension came about the time of Jim Waters' (R.I.P.) passing ? Is it coincidence that a short time after, his firing has come about, I wonder ? So many unanswered questions would need clarification, before this team is cleared of any controversial

 

[GoKnightsGo44]

This could be as simple as not declaring he was charged with a crime associated with a minor or allegations of a sexual nature when he was hired.

It is at least a conflict and/or an omission. The world was obviously a different place in 1982, but when being hired for a senior position you are measured by todays yard stick.

 

[Fastpace]

This could be as simple as not declaring he was charged with a crime associated with a minor or allegations of a sexual nature when he was hired.

It is at least a conflict and/or an omission. The world was obviously a different place in 1982, but when being hired for a senior position you are measured by todays yard stick.

That must be some short yard stick with a new set of measurement, you are measuring with.
Are the yards not the same length in today's world, or are they shorter than in 1982 ? !