Erie Otters 2022-23 Season Thread

[NOA]

Dave needs to be fired like what in the hell is this team doing? Jacob Golden, Kyen Sopa, and now Gilmartin. Flat out wasting assets on a middling team with bottom half talent and coaching. Not to mention the fact that the reason they feel the “need” to do this is because they punted away so many chances at getting high end talent when they couldn’t draft well early, took risks on college commits or no shows, have mismanaged the crap out of their import situation, and they poorly managed the height/size of their roster which required moves for Alfano/Gilmart and FA signings just to offset their 5’6 forwards

I just don’t know where to start or end with this rant. I could speak to it for at least a few hours. I’m beyond frustrated. This is a 7/8 seed team at best and Gilmartin, no offense, doesn’t begin to move the needle in the slightest. So what the hell? Dave must be smelling the fire burning under him and he’s trying desperately to squeeze any juice out of this season. Our assets finally looked promising and now we burn the picks we got from Lockhart on this kid? If he’s a success, we lose him next year. If he’s not, we can burn another 3rd (likely the conditional) to have him back like Golden!!! Yay! What a move, Dave! Makes total sense. Also gives me full confidence that we won’t trade Kyrou and waste our chance at more assets. But even if we do move him, it’s less impactful because it will be a wash with the assets moved out for middle 6 forward…. Unbelievable

 

[HockeyPops]

Interesting, the OHL website media notes reports that the conditional is a 5th not a 3rd.

 

[EON]

My feelings about Dave Brown:

 

[OttersFan]

If I made this many mistakes at my job, I wouldn’t have one.

Dave Brown has officially lost it.

 

[OHL4Life]

Dave needs to be fired like what in the hell is this team doing? Jacob Golden, Kyen Sopa, and now Gilmartin. Flat out wasting assets on a middling team with bottom half talent and coaching. Not to mention the fact that the reason they feel the “need” to do this is because they punted away so many chances at getting high end talent when they couldn’t draft well early, took risks on college commits or no shows, have mismanaged the crap out of their import situation, and they poorly managed the height/size of their roster which required moves for Alfano/Gilmart and FA signings just to offset their 5’6 forwards

I just don’t know where to start or end with this rant. I could speak to it for at least a few hours. I’m beyond frustrated. This is a 7/8 seed team at best and Gilmartin, no offense, doesn’t begin to move the needle in the slightest. So what the hell? Dave must be smelling the fire burning under him and he’s trying desperately to squeeze any juice out of this season. Our assets finally looked promising and now we burn the picks we got from Lockhart on this kid? If he’s a success, we lose him next year. If he’s not, we can burn another 3rd (likely the conditional) to have him back like Golden!!! Yay! What a move, Dave! Makes total sense. Also gives me full confidence that we won’t trade Kyrou and waste our chance at more assets. But even if we do move him, it’s less impactful because it will be a wash with the assets moved out for middle 6 forward…. Unbelievable

they miss their former top scout who left to go to buffalo and now is in barrie. they dont draft well and its showing in their results.

 

[Mata]

Dave needs to be fired like what in the hell is this team doing? Jacob Golden, Kyen Sopa, and now Gilmartin. Flat out wasting assets on a middling team with bottom half talent and coaching. Not to mention the fact that the reason they feel the “need” to do this is because they punted away so many chances at getting high end talent when they couldn’t draft well early, took risks on college commits or no shows, have mismanaged the crap out of their import situation, and they poorly managed the height/size of their roster which required moves for Alfano/Gilmart and FA signings just to offset their 5’6 forwards

I just don’t know where to start or end with this rant. I could speak to it for at least a few hours. I’m beyond frustrated. This is a 7/8 seed team at best and Gilmartin, no offense, doesn’t begin to move the needle in the slightest. So what the hell? Dave must be smelling the fire burning under him and he’s trying desperately to squeeze any juice out of this season. Our assets finally looked promising and now we burn the picks we got from Lockhart on this kid? If he’s a success, we lose him next year. If he’s not, we can burn another 3rd (likely the conditional) to have him back like Golden!!! Yay! What a move, Dave! Makes total sense. Also gives me full confidence that we won’t trade Kyrou and waste our chance at more assets. But even if we do move him, it’s less impactful because it will be a wash with the assets moved out for middle 6 forward…. Unbelievable

Can I retract my predictions...

Honestly, a middle of the road guy on a middle of the road team. So he will eat minutes from an 04 or 05 because let's face it, this year has too many things that have to align to even sniff playoffs.

That being said, I hope he can perform but unless we move someone we have likely cost minutes for the development of our younger kids. He will he 2nd, maybe 3rd line? All I can think is BJ has no confidence in our kids who are smaller or he sees things completely different than Hartsburg and there isn't enough time in 1 season to overhaul everything complete with hopefully our top brass being in the hot seat.

If we haven't done anything by December on yhe ice I will expect Brown gone before the season is done or the downward spiral could be going further than we expected.

 

[NOA]

Can I retract my predictions...

Honestly, a middle of the road guy on a middle of the road team. So he will eat minutes from an 04 or 05 because let's face it, this year has too many things that have to align to even sniff playoffs.

That being said, I hope he can perform but unless we move someone we have likely cost minutes for the development of our younger kids. He will he 2nd, maybe 3rd line? All I can think is BJ has no confidence in our kids who are smaller or he sees things completely different than Hartsburg and there isn't enough time in 1 season to overhaul everything complete with hopefully our top brass being in the hot seat.

If we haven't done anything by December on yhe ice I will expect Brown gone before the season is done or the downward spiral could be going further than we expected.

Yup and this is exactly the issue. Now we have another guy eating up minutes from guys like Terrance, Spence, etc. Play your youth!! What difference does it make if you are a bottom tier team anyways? At least let the guys grow and develop

This smells like a trade Dave is making to salvage things. It’s possible Waters told him this is it. We need playoffs this year. At least I hope that’s the case. Dave knows that they are undersized and lack high end skill. The only way to mitigate that is with more size and depth to overset things and try to be a “balanced” team. He can’t afford to wait and see. He needs to maximize things this year or he could be fired. In theory, I like the approach of just being a defensive team that wins 3-2. However, our backups are mediocre and Lalonde doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that he can consistently be the guy. Our coaching also is bottom tier. You want to win games 3-2, you need to be disciplined but through the preseason, we were the most penalized team. I thought defense would be a strength and yet we gave up the most goals in preseason. So what is the point of having a defensive head coach if you give up the most goals in the league? Seems like a waste.

If we had a legit coaching staff, maybe we could compete as a 6/7 seed team. But these kids just don’t develop here. I have no confidence that any of our players will breakout. Someone like Terrance should be ready for a 70-80 point season in year 2. But he’s likely going to be in the 45-55 range and now with Gilmartin, he is potentially buried on line 3.

There is nothing positive with this move. It’s a joke

 

[Mata]

For those wondering...

Saganiuk
Bressette
Kyrou
Johnston
Kulakov
Nicholls

And now Gilmartin...

I think something will have to happen, 7 potential OA going into next season is gonna be too much.

 

[OHL4Life]

For those wondering...

Saganiuk
Bressette
Kyrou
Johnston
Kulakov
Nicholls

And now Gilmartin...

I think something will have to happen, 7 potential OA going into next season is gonna be too much.

johnson kulakov and michols are not oa players, kyrou and gilmartin May be pros next year. could be less of an issue then you think

 

[Mata]

He’s saying they aren’t good enough to keep around as OA’s so it won’t be an issue because they’ll be cut.

Neither should have Sellan or Hoff last season by that measure, but they stayed as OA players. This is Erie, not a top caliber club with DB at the helm.

 

[Mata]

And you've also highlighted why this was an asanine trade to begin with if gilmartin is in fact a one and done. It does nothing for our team but burn assets at an attempt to limp into the playoffs while killing the next 2 seasons. Yes, I lack that much confidence in our brass over the past 5 seasons

 

[NOA]

Neither should have Sellan or Hoff last season by that measure, but they stayed as OA players. This is Erie, not a top caliber club with DB at the helm.

You aren’t wrong but the point stands that Nicholls is not really a real OA candidate. If we didn’t keep Campbell, we certainly aren’t keeping him. Kyrou/Gilmartin have pro chances with Kyrou likely being gone. That leaves you with 4-5 OA options which isn’t hard to figure out. Kulakov is an import that you shouldn’t burn an OA spot on. To me the only real locks as real OA candidates are Saganiuk, Bressette. Johnston/Kulakov will be the debate. Gilmartin doesn’t impact this. If anything, you want him to go pro because that means he had a good year and you retain your conditional pick.

The bigger issue is why trade for a 1 year rental? At least Alfano made sense as an 04. But why the heck are we, a team that at best has low seed playoff aspirations, using real assets on a middle line forward? Makes no sense. He likely won’t be here next year to help the team that, in theory, should be taking its next step. And again if he is here, that’s a bad sign because it speaks to his production/development and means we lose an extra pick. It literally defies logic. If you added a 2004 player, I get it. If we had less 2003s on the roster or if you flipped Saganiuk for this kid to get bigger, I get it. But this ain’t it. Unless.. unless another shoe is dropping. Maybe they are moving Saganiuk or Bressette to get back some of these assets.

 

[Mata]

The only way this trade makes sense to me is if they plan on trying to keep Kyrou and Gilmartin in their OA season with the returning players we will have. This year COULD be a test run to that theory, but if Kyrou and Gilmartin are gone next season it's pure idiocracy.

As it stands DB kinda made a trade that IMO puts us in no man's land. If we have a semi decent record and happeb to make the playoffs, what do we have left to try and obtain a final piece or two? If we do make a decent attempt at a run, make the playoffs, get a worse draft pick, and lose both Gilmartin and Kyrou next season we have now lost even MORE assets for a run while Spence is here. I guess I just see no return on investment at all with what has transpired today, for any scenario.

Our best "predictions" had most of us seeing ourselves as a bubble playoff team. Losing much needed assets AND picking up a top 6 doesn't really change that ceiling IMO. It actually hurts the short term (2 - 3 years) more than it helps.

 

[NOA]

The only way this trade makes sense to me is if they plan on trying to keep Kyrou and Gilmartin in their OA season with the returning players we will have. This year COULD be a test run to that theory, but if Kyrou and Gilmartin are gone next season it's pure idiocracy.

As it stands DB kinda made a trade that IMO puts us in no man's land. If we have a semi decent record and happeb to make the playoffs, what do we have left to try and obtain a final piece or two? If we do make a decent attempt at a run, make the playoffs, get a worse draft pick, and lose both Gilmartin and Kyrou next season we have now lost even MORE assets for a run while Spence is here. I guess I just see no return on investment at all with what has transpired today, for any scenario.

Our best "predictions" had most of us seeing ourselves as a bubble playoff team. Losing much needed assets AND picking up a top 6 doesn't really change that ceiling IMO. It actually hurts the short term (2 - 3 years) more than it helps.

I don’t think there are high odds on Kyrou returning. Gilmartin a possibility but I don’t necessarily think that’s a good thing because it means he didn’t have a great year… same thing with Kyrou.

The “no man’s land” part is so accurate. Especially before the season started. Could we at least see how things start? I mean maybe if you start crazy hot like 6-2-1 you say okay we are building something, let’s add to that. But damn can they try to evaluate the current roster first? We now have 15 signed forwards. Again, another trade is going to have to be made at some point but now the question is who. Signoretti, Saganiuk, Artichuk seem to be the most likely names on the block.

Also side note: Got to love that a team with penalty issues all preseason as the most penalized team now adds a guy who might be a loose cannon with his penalty mins and suspension history. One prediction I’m sure about - Erie will be one of the most penalized teams this year.

 

[Mata]

I don’t think there are high odds on Kyrou returning. Gilmartin a possibility but I don’t necessarily think that’s a good thing because it means he didn’t have a great year… same thing with Kyrou.

The “no man’s land” part is so accurate. Especially before the season started. Could we at least see how things start? I mean maybe if you start crazy hot like 6-2-1 you say okay we are building something, let’s add to that. But damn can they try to evaluate the current roster first? We now have 15 signed forwards. Again, another trade is going to have to be made at some point but now the question is who. Signoretti, Saganiuk, Artichuk seem to be the most likely names on the block.

Even if they do trade any of the 3 you mentioned, what is the return for them? Are we looking at 7th round plus? I would think Saganiuk may fetch the most value of the 3 and he is an 03, but I don't see him garnering anywhere near what we have given up to get Gilmartin. A 5th rounder at best?

We have enough project players. As you've stated time and time again, it's this constant need for the big fish we seem to strike out on with almost 100% certainty.

 

[NOA]

Based on the recent updated 2022-23 roster, looks like Erie sent Holomego, Henry, Gibbons down. Makes sense and no surprises. They will start the year with Nicholls. There are 7 defensement and 14 forwards listed with Gilmartin still not added yet.

Ontario Hockey League

The OHL consists of 20 member teams, including 17 in the province of Ontario as well as three in the United States, with two in the state of Michigan and one in the state of Pennsylvania.

ontariohockeyleague.com

 

[LDN]

Curious to see how Gilmartin performs tonight for you guys. Who’s he gonna be lined up with?

 

[NOA]

Curious to see how Gilmartin performs tonight for you guys. Who’s he gonna be lined up with?

Hard to say. Erie has a good amount of middle line forwards and he adds to that. But considering the assets they spent to get him and his age, he almost certainly gets top 6 minutes. Maybe not tonight because of the timing of the trade but the hope is probably that he gets those minutes at some point. He has played with Saganiuk in the past with USNDT but not sure if they were ever on a line together

Could be something like this:

Gilmartin - Saganiuk - Cohen
Sedore - Terrance - Alfano
Spence - McDonald - Bressette


I feel like McDonald earned a look in the top 9. He showed flashes of skill and actually won over half of his faceoffs, which was best on the team in preseason. Let’s see how “loyal” BJ is though and how much he values experience in the system. But again based on preseason, I think these are their best 9 forwards in terms of ceiling. Bottom 3 should be a combination of the rest. All of these guys need to earn their time still

Signoretti/Artichuk - Lowe/Edwards - Smith/Messier

 

[NOA]

Any final predications before the season starts?

I’ll say they finish 29-34-2-3. Likely 8th seed.

Leading scorer - Cohen
Best rookie - Spence (easy choice)
Most improved - Sedore
Most surprising - McDonald

The biggest hurdles for them are a lack of high end talent and the division they play in. If they had a legit top 3 forward, I would probably bump them up at least 3-5 wins. But without a legit star forward, it’s going to be tough to win consistently. It also probably means their PP will he average at best and their ability to win in OT/SO will diminish. I hope I’m wrong and they figure it out but I have zero confidence. The only reason I have them slightly (2 wins) better than a year ago is just I don’t see how they are worse… a lot of people in the prediction thread have them as 9/10 seed. And they very well could be. But they have a lot of guys back in key areas and they got bigger/stronger. Their only losses of significance were DAmato, Hoffmann, Lockhart. But they added Alfano, Gilmartin, and Spence. In many ways, that’s a potential wash.

Overall they should improve but when you don’t have the high end guys, you are limited. Not to mention this division is the toughest in the CHL. London is supposedly rebuilding but those are never easy games. OS/Guelph are supposed to be good and Kitchener is a mini LDN at times. Even when they “rebuild”, they still compete. If Erie played in the west, they might get 3-4 more wins.

Let’s see how they start off the year. 4 road games to start is tough but eastern conference has been better success for them in recent years. At minimum they need to start 2-2 and try to gain confidence. Last year was such a disaster start that it carried throughout. Start strong and maybe they can hover around .500 all year, which would be an improvement

 

[Erie Otters Zone]

According to Mark Scheig, Nichols is expected to start tonight with LaLonde still in Columbus

 

[Mata]

Previewing the OHL Season With Otters' Head Coach B.J. Adams - The Hockey Writers OHL Latest News, Analysis & More

The Erie Otters open the 2022-23 season Thursday in Peterborough. Coach B.J. Adams shares his thoughts on the team as the new season starts.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[Mata]

Curious to see how Gilmartin performs tonight for you guys. Who’s he gonna be lined up with?

I agree with NOA. Hard to believe they bring a big body 03 in that doesn't command top 6 minutes.

Given the above article I just posted from The Hockey Writers, BJ acknowledges the team needs to get "heavier".

I think that is directed at:

Saganiuk, Artichuk, Signoretti, and MAYBE Edwards in that their time will be less and less if performing equally when compared to Lowe, Smith, Messier, and McDonald.

Any speculation as to lines...

Our top 6 are likely Sedore, Cohen, Bressette, Alfano, Saganiuk, and Terrance. I can't imagine they brought in Alfano to sit on the 3rd line either. So one of the aforementioned players will likely get bumped to the 3rd line. My best guess is Terrance, Bressette, or Saganiuk will be moved to 3rd line.

 

[Monster66]

Any final predications before the season starts?

I’ll say they finish 29-34-2-3. Likely 8th seed.

Leading scorer - Cohen
Best rookie - Spence (easy choice)
Most improved - Sedore
Most surprising - McDonald

The biggest hurdles for them are a lack of high end talent and the division they play in. If they had a legit top 3 forward, I would probably bump them up at least 3-5 wins. But without a legit star forward, it’s going to be tough to win consistently. It also probably means their PP will he average at best and their ability to win in OT/SO will diminish. I hope I’m wrong and they figure it out but I have zero confidence. The only reason I have them slightly (2 wins) better than a year ago is just I don’t see how they are worse… a lot of people in the prediction thread have them as 9/10 seed. And they very well could be. But they have a lot of guys back in key areas and they got bigger/stronger. Their only losses of significance were DAmato, Hoffmann, Lockhart. But they added Alfano, Gilmartin, and Spence. In many ways, that’s a potential wash.

Overall they should improve but when you don’t have the high end guys, you are limited. Not to mention this division is the toughest in the CHL. London is supposedly rebuilding but those are never easy games. OS/Guelph are supposed to be good and Kitchener is a mini LDN at times. Even when they “rebuild”, they still compete. If Erie played in the west, they might get 3-4 more wins.

Let’s see how they start off the year. 4 road games to start is tough but eastern conference has been better success for them in recent years. At minimum they need to start 2-2 and try to gain confidence. Last year was such a disaster start that it carried throughout. Start strong and maybe they can hover around .500 all year, which would be an improvement

Still carrying 15 forwards. I assume Messier will be sent down, who will be the other two?

 

[NOA]

According to Mark Scheig, Nichols is expected to start tonight with LaLonde still in Columbus

Ugh great. I hope this is not already a bad sign of things to come. Ha, I literally just said they need a good start. And already game one they have to go with their backup who last year was shaky at best. Love it!

 

[NOA]

Still carrying 15 forwards. I assume Messier will be sent down, who will be the other two?

At this stage they have 15 on the roster. It’s possible Messier is sent down but he was a 2005 FA signing. Odd to sign him at that age and then just send him down. Rarely ever done unless you are doing it because of immediate needs from injury and then you no longer need him. I would think someone is getting released or traded before someone is sent down. Just my sense on it. There could be 1/2 minor injuries that we aren’t aware of, hence the carrying of 15 to start. But at some point in the next few weeks, I’ll bet that number goes down to 14