GWT: EPL - Matchweek 2

[hatterson]

I saw that and the Joelinton clothesline on Neto... definitely feels like 2 wrong VAR decisions which went against Bournemouth right at the end. Very interested to see what Dale Johnson writes tomorrow

Wow they didn't show the replay of the clothesline on the match center but I just found it. Hilarious how lightly moving your head towards someone is violent conduct and a red but a full on clothesline around the neck is just a yellow.

 

[robertmac43]

Your fumble! He started in midweek, he was unlikely to play more than 20 here.

They’re being extremely cautious with the minutes of Nkunku, Fofana, and Lavia. It’s also why Lavia wasn’t in the squad today despite being our best player against City

Ah yes forgot there were mid week European games going on already. Been waiting for the CL to start up again

 

[Peen]

Ah yes forgot there were mid week European games going on already. Been waiting for the CL to start up again

Downvote

 

[PanniniClaus]

Wow they didn't show the replay of the clothesline on the match center but I just found it. Hilarious how lightly moving your head towards someone is violent conduct and a red but a full on clothesline around the neck is just a yellow.

I was watching live and that is a red for me, all day and every day.

 

[gary69]

Haha sure but it probably be for the best for Chelsea.

I like Maresca using Gusto as a hybrid RB/CM.
He's a CM by formation.

I didn't like in this match (nor in the Servette match). All it amounted to in this match was turnovers and huge amount of space on the right flank after those. Gusto didn't do anything than a midfielder couldn't have done instead in the build up/passing. I'd rather see the wide players go up on the pitch and put in crosses/cutbacks from there. Leave the mid pitch playmaking to Palmer, Nkunku, Enzo, Caicedo etc, they're better at it and it keeps the team more balanced and in formation.

Seems to me that cutting inside by a FB/WB is done just for the sake of it/tactical instructions by the manager, but it pretty much does nothing useful.

Remains to be seen if Maresca can evolve in this regard.

 

[Evilo]

I didn't like in this match (nor in the Servette match). All it amounted to in this match was turnovers and huge amount of space on the right flank after those. Gusto didn't do anything than a midfielder couldn't have done instead in the build up/passing. I'd rather see the wide players go up on the pitch and put in crosses/cutbacks from there. Leave the mid pitch playmaking to Palmer, Nkunku, Enzo, Caicedo etc, they're better at it and it keeps the team more balanced and in formation.

Seems to me that cutting inside by a FB/WB is done just for the sake of it/tactical instructions by the manager, but it pretty much does nothing useful.

Remains to be seen if Maresca can evolve in this regard.

It was really interesting on possession but as I noted during the game, it cost the two goals against.

 

[robertmac43]

Thought this was kind of interesting.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1827977231345315980

 

[The Abusement Park]

Thought this was kind of interesting.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1827977231345315980

Similar situation to Rooney. Granted I’m sure Sterling probably took better care of himself than Rooney did.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

And that graph only includes minutes in the league. Sterling was consistently on teams that went deep in cups and 71 of his 82 England caps were starts.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Similar situation to Rooney. Granted I’m sure Sterling probably took better care of himself than Rooney did.

What about the others that started similar ages? Seems like they’re let off the hook for playing when they were younger.

 

[gary69]

What about the others that started similar ages? Seems like they’re let off the hook for playing when they were younger.

Cristiano Ronaldo must top all this type of charts. Never injured for long and massive amount of NT caps.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

What about the others that started similar ages? Seems like they’re let off the hook for playing when they were younger.

I feel like it's pretty common for guys who were nailed-on starters at 18 to have hit a wall by their late 20s? Especially forwards.

In his 17 year old season, he started 19 games in the Premier League. In his 18 year old season he started 24. In his 19 year old season, started 35.

Wingers and forwards that were starting that much and that young don't seem to have good longevity! By the time he was 28.5, Eden Hazard had played almost 30,000 league minutes - more than Sterling currently has, and at a younger age. He only played a few thousand more. Rooney is of course another classic example.

And I cannot think of many attackers who were nailed-on starters at 18 - and playing a lot in multiple competitions - who played at a high level deep into their 30s. Cristiano Ronaldo is honestly the only one who comes to mind. Other star players with good longevity weren't starting 20+ matches a season until they were 20 - even Messi didn't have a season of 25+ starts in La Liga until he was 22.

 

[The Abusement Park]

What about the others that started similar ages? Seems like they’re let off the hook for playing when they were younger.

Which others in particular? There’s not a ton of players that are playing as many and important of minutes as Sterling/Rooney were at 16/17.

 

[HeHateMeFrisbee]

That would be really interesting to study. I would think that of the positions, CB's and GK's probably have less of a decline.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

That would be really interesting to study. I would think that of the positions, CB's and GK's probably have less of a decline.

Yeah, it's why I specified forwards. The dropoff doesn't appear to really be the case for other positions - although I would imagine there are also far fewer teenage CBs and GKs in the top 5 leagues than there are teenage forwards, so I'd be curious as to if it was per capita similar.

 

[Jussi]

Similar situation to Rooney. Granted I’m sure Sterling probably took better care of himself than Rooney did.

The ankle injury Rooney had in the Bayern tie in the UCL affected his speed visibly. He ended up having more assists after that though.

 

[HeHateMeFrisbee]

Yeah, it's why I specified forwards. The dropoff doesn't appear to really be the case for other positions - although I would imagine there are also far fewer teenage CBs and GKs in the top 5 leagues than there are teenage forwards, so I'd be curious as to if it was per capita similar.

I think in both hockey and football, defense is a skill you continue to learn how to do. I always think of Lidstrom...he got BETTER the older he was. He just knew where he had to be.

Football you maybe need to rely on athleticism more than cerebral ability, but I think compared to the forward positions the wear and tear is less of a factor because it's mitigated by experience, to a degree.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I feel like it's pretty common for guys who were nailed-on starters at 18 to have hit a wall by their late 20s? Especially forwards.

In his 17 year old season, he started 19 games in the Premier League. In his 18 year old season he started 24. In his 19 year old season, started 35.

Wingers and forwards that were starting that much and that young don't seem to have good longevity! By the time he was 28.5, Eden Hazard had played almost 30,000 league minutes - more than Sterling currently has, and at a younger age. He only played a few thousand more. Rooney is of course another classic example.

And I cannot think of many attackers who were nailed-on starters at 18 - and playing a lot in multiple competitions - who played at a high level deep into their 30s. Cristiano Ronaldo is honestly the only one who comes to mind. Other star players with good longevity weren't starting 20+ matches a season until they were 20 - even Messi didn't have a season of 25+ starts in La Liga until he was 22.

I’d have to go back and look at their stats but Odegaard was playing against men since he was like 15. Kun made his debut very young too.

Messi was 20 with 27 starts in the league. I’d be shocked if any forward played more minutes than him during his era.

Which others in particular? There’s not a ton of players that are playing as many and important of minutes as Sterling/Rooney were at 16/17.

See above.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

I’d have to go back and look at their stats but Odegaard was playing against men since he was like 15. Kun made his debut very young too.

Messi was 20 with 27 starts in the league. I’d be shocked if any forward played more minutes than him during his era.


See above.

I don't think it's statistically possible for Messi to have played more minutes than Ronaldo. And Messi's 20 year old season had 23 starts. Messi did not have a season with more starts than Sterling's 19-year old season until he was 24 (2011-12, started 36). And Messi and Ronaldo also clearly have had longevity that few forwards in the history of the sport have had.

And it's not about playing young. It's about playing a lot and at a very competitive level young. Odegaard's first season with serious minutes in a top league was at 20. And Aguero did not play deep into his 30s! He played a grand total of 16 league games after his 32nd birthday! Which perhaps supports the point that playing a ton of super-competitive minutes in your teenage years means less on the other end of your career!

 

[Evilo]

Hazard indeed started in L1 at 16.
And Mbappe is already finished at 26

 

[The Abusement Park]

I’d have to go back and look at their stats but Odegaard was playing against men since he was like 15. Kun made his debut very young too.

Messi was 20 with 27 starts in the league. I’d be shocked if any forward played more minutes than him during his era.


See above.

Most of them weren’t playing as much or at the same level as Rooney and Sterling did at 16/17. Rooney played 33 PL games at 17 and Sterling played 24 at 18. Messi was, but well… Messi is the biggest anomaly ever.

Odegaard was playing in Norway and Aguero was done by 33 so…

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don't think Sterling falling out of favor has much to do with his career minutes played, but I would agree that's a factor across all sports. I think you see it more with running backs in football and pitchers in baseball. And that's something that the above chart doesn't factor in, it's the wear and tear some players have on their journey up to the pros. In high school, Derrick Henry had a game with 57 carries and 462 carries in a season. Now those carries aren't the same as NFL carries, it absolutely had an impact on the length of his career and they did not develop him properly. Same with pitchers that get overused in the youth leagues and get shoulder/elbow issues.

 

[JPBolts]

Since starting 21 matches in the Belgian Pro League (and CL) at 16y/o, Tielemans has been a consistent starter.

 

[Blender]

Since starting 21 matches in the Belgian Pro League (and CL) at 16y/o, Tielemans has been a consistent starter.

Yea, he's another one. He's started 314 league games and had 477 appearances already and he's only 27.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Most of them weren’t playing as much or at the same level as Rooney and Sterling did at 16/17. Rooney played 33 PL games at 17 and Sterling played 24 at 18. Messi was, but well… Messi is the biggest anomaly ever.

Odegaard was playing in Norway and Aguero was done by 33 so…

Lukaku played 32 matches at 16

Ibrahimovic played 24 matches at 19.